Andreas Athanasiou

[HIFE]

When your team is poor at puck possession and generating sustained offense, individuals try to do too much because they don't trust their teammates. And that compounds the problem.

So I'm not surprised when I see guys like Tatar and AA trying to do too much individually.

We should remember a major problem players like Nyquist have is over-passing. Way too many broken plays that could never work and a lot of our guys are guilty. It's positive to see someone (Larkin/AA) with a shoot first mentality who is hungry for goals. Better sometimes to drive the net and get a puck knocked loose than a blatant give-away from a bad pass.

 

[Shaman464]

Imo, Athasiou has most upside to take a tremendous step to be our next superstar. And I mean from the level he is now and what he could be.

Mantha is already our 2nd best player after Zetts, but AA could rise challenge them if he will get better consistency.

We have already seen what AA can do. If he will get mentally to "everydayer" level like Zetterberg is, he would be phenomenal player.

Just waiting for that "Athanasiou explosion". Will be bigger than Nyquist's when that happens. :p

He is in no way the next in line to be a super star. I have him below Mantha, Larkin and Svech on upside. He's pretty much the prototypical middle 6 winger. Has some tools, can play against middle talent, will likely crack 300 pts, may crack 500 pts, but never will be a super star.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He is in no way the next in line to be a super star. I have him below Mantha, Larkin and Svech on upside. He's pretty much the prototypical middle 6 winger. Has some tools, can play against middle talent, will likely crack 300 pts, may crack 500 pts, but never will be a super star.

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that you would say that.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Where is this idea AA could be a super defensive player coming from?

Not everyone is two-way monster. Some players are good or great at offense and not who you rely on in defensive situations.

 

[Winger98]

Where is this idea AA could be a super defensive player coming from?

Not everyone is two-way monster. Some players are good or great at offense and not who you rely on in defensive situations.

Management/coaches. Their pushing the idea of "complete players" and playing 200 feet has fostered this idea that every player has to be really good at both. Personally, if a guy is lights out in the offensive end, I'm fine with some defensive shortcomings. Kozlov wasn't exctly a defensive wizard, but he was a killer in the offensive zone. Same with Holmstrom, and guys like Dino and Sheppard. If a guy can score you goals, you find ways to get him on the ice.

I think the bigger problem with Athanasiou is that he's not really lights out in the offensive zone, either. He's great in transition, getting behind the D, and putting a quick goal up, but he's not there yet when the play is concentrated in one zone and offensie has to be generated in that confined space with passing, board work, and movement. Have to think/hope that with his physical gifts that it will come. It sorta goes hand in hand with not trying to plays balls to the walls for 20 minutes and learning to use his linemates better.

 

[jolly roger]

I actually think the worst part of his game, is his usage of his teammates. He tries way too often to do everything by himself, and that works in junior, but not the NHL.

What exactly would he use them for? Pass to Sheahan to score?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What exactly would he use them for? Pass to Sheahan to score?

Yeah, pretty much. You have five guys out on the ice. Doesn't matter if you're the most talented, everyone in the NHL is a capable hockey player. And if it's a difference between AA taking on two guys or finding Sheahan or Miller or Bertuzzi wide open because the other team cheated towards him, the answer is obvious.

Datsyuk and Z and Fedorov and Lidstrom and anyone who has ever had success in this game has done so for that reason. They have the hockey IQ to know when to take it themselves or to utilize their teammates.

Hell, mr. Trigger man himself, Brett Hull, and the human shooting machine Alex Ovechkin do it too.

You have to play as part of a team even if you're more talented.

 

[jolly roger]

Yeah, pretty much. You have five guys out on the ice. Doesn't matter if you're the most talented, everyone in the NHL is a capable hockey player. And if it's a difference between AA taking on two guys or finding Sheahan or Miller or Bertuzzi wide open because the other team cheated towards him, the answer is obvious.

Datsyuk and Z and Fedorov and Lidstrom and anyone who has ever had success in this game has done so for that reason. They have the hockey IQ to know when to take it themselves or to utilize their teammates.

Hell, mr. Trigger man himself, Brett Hull, and the human shooting machine Alex Ovechkin do it too.

You have to play as part of a team even if you're more talented.

Ovie? He stands at the left circle. The other 4 play on the right and feed him shots. Not a great example.

 

[Henkka]

Where is this idea AA could be a super defensive player coming from?

Not everyone is two-way monster. Some players are good or great at offense and not who you rely on in defensive situations.

Great skating ability wears him less down. So he has one of the best potentials for a 200-feet game.

 

[chris05]

And if it's a difference between AA taking on two guys.
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I agree I would rather he take on five guys instead. Even better when he takes on 5 guys and starts from behind his own net. The only thing better than is taking on the stanley cup champs( five)guys starting from behind your own net. What else are you going to talk about when your team is not good enough to make the playoffs. We can always talk about weiss having the ability to score in the redwings system and style of play according to gm holland. I think the wings managmnt has missed the boat on AA. AA is in the business of making jaw dropping plays and entertaining the fans not in the business of making up for bad management decisions.

Any and everybody playing in the NHL is capable of taking on 2 guys. The trick is taking on 6 guys and putting the puck in the net.

 

[Shaman464]

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that you would say that.

Shocked that I said he could score 500 points? If he scores 500 points and was drafted outside of 1st round, he's a damn good draft pick in my mind.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Shocked that I said he could score 500 points? If he scores 500 points and was drafted outside of 1st round, he's a damn good draft pick in my mind.

That you'd rate his upside lower than guys who clearly don't have the skill AA has, and call him "prototypical" as if he isn't a fairly unique specimen. He was one of the more skilled players of his draft, even being rated as high as the top 10 a year before the actual draft. He's as boom/bust as it gets, meaning his "boom" is superstar caliber player. Projecting career totals is meaningless, what will be interesting is what he does when he's 25-30 or so, in his prime.

 

[Shaman464]

That you'd rate his upside lower than guys who clearly don't have the skill AA has, and call him "prototypical" as if he isn't a fairly unique specimen. He was one of the more skilled players of his draft, even being rated as high as the top 10 a year before the actual draft. He's as boom/bust as it gets, meaning his "boom" is superstar caliber player. Projecting career totals is meaningless, what will be interesting is what he does when he's 25-30 or so, in his prime.

He's boom or bust for multiple reasons: First because the league is adjusting to neutralizing speed by moving away from big pylon (read Chara) style D-men to more agile, cerebral d-men. Second because his work ethic has been suspect at every level and third because he while he is fast and has a good wrist shot, he lacks a lot of other tools. He doesn't have great vision for making passes, he does have any defensive instincts, and no INTANGIBLES.

So while his g/60 have been good so far, it is very likely (from someone who gets paid for their ability to do stats) that it is sampling error from a low TOI/g, and may not hold as time is increased. Especially as he gets paired against top pairing D-men instead of bottom guys.

 

[Oddbob]

Remember the one game in juniors?

Oh, right right right!

We should remember a major problem players like Nyquist have is over-passing. Way too many broken plays that could never work and a lot of our guys are guilty. It's positive to see someone (Larkin/AA) with a shoot first mentality who is hungry for goals. Better sometimes to drive the net and get a puck knocked loose than a blatant give-away from a bad pass.

Yeah, I agree, we have been an over-passing team for so long, they are a breath of fresh air in the shooting department.

 

[jolly roger]

He's boom or bust for multiple reasons: First because the league is adjusting to neutralizing speed by moving away from big pylon (read Chara) style D-men to more agile, cerebral d-men. Second because his work ethic has been suspect at every level and third because he while he is fast and has a good wrist shot, he lacks a lot of other tools. He doesn't have great vision for making passes, he does have any defensive instincts, and no INTANGIBLES.

So while his g/60 have been good so far, it is very likely (from someone who gets paid for their ability to do stats) that it is sampling error from a low TOI/g, and may not hold as time is increased. Especially as he gets paired against top pairing D-men instead of bottom guys.[/

His "work ethic has been suspect at every level "? Here comes the Holland clown-troupe bashing the guy whose contract is being negotiated. He's been a success at every level or he wouldn't have gotten to the NHL.

If he's such a failure then I'd guess you'd be all about trading him for his ****-poor equivalent from someone else then?

 

[lilidk]

if you think he is a superstar why did he never dominate the AHL ?

 

[chances14]

His "work ethic has been suspect at every level "? Here comes the Holland clown-troupe bashing the guy whose contract is being negotiated. He's been a success at every level or he wouldn't have gotten to the NHL.

If he's such a failure then I'd guess you'd be all about trading him for his ****-poor equivalent from someone else then?

and here comes the "he must be a holland supporter because someone dares question a player's work ethic" brigade

AA and mantha's work ethic issues have been well documented even before they were drafted.

 

[Henkka]

and here comes the "he must be a holland supporter because someone dares question a player's work ethic" brigade

AA and mantha's work ethic issues have been well documented even before they were drafted.

That's why our management drafted character guys to push them in future years. The work ethic will come out in competitive environment.

 

[Peter Tosh]

I kinda hope he gets offer sheeted so Holland is forced to do something

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That's why our management drafted character guys to push them in future years. The work ethic will come out in competitive environment.

Is that why he gave Helm and Abdelkader their contracts? Seems like a strange justification.

 

[jolly roger]

if you think he is a superstar why did he never dominate the AHL ?

The first year at GR he got nailed in a fight by a dirty hit and got his jaw broken and wired shut. Sipping soup through a straw puts a damper on anyone's stats. The second year he played part of the year and got called up. That's why.

If RedWings fans don't want him I'm sure there'd be lots of takers. It will be dejavu all over again after he signs, just like Tatar and Mrazek the bashers will get back to figuring out excuses for Kenny and his sidekick Blabhill.

 

[Henkka]

The first year at GR he got nailed in a fight by a dirty hit and got his jaw broken and wired shut. Sipping soup through a straw puts a damper on anyone's stats. The second year he played part of the year and got called up. That's why.

If RedWings fans don't want him I'm sure there'd be lots of takers. It will be dejavu all over again after he signs, just like Tatar and Mrazek the bashers will get back to figuring out excuses for Kenny and his sidekick Blabhill.

Mantha and Athanasiou, all career games in AHL:


Mantha
132 games, 44+44= 88 points
0.67 points per game

Athanasiou
83 games, 25+26=51 points
0.61 points per game

I can't found power-play scoring from anywhere, but if you exclude PP goals (Mantha 14, Athanasiou 2)

Mantha
30 ES goals in 132 games = 0.23 per game

Athanasiou
23 ES goals in 83 games = 0.28 per game

Athanasiou doesn't look bad at all. It was veterans who mostly play PP at Griffins. ES scoring is at least at par or even better than Mantha.


***

BTW, both seem to be "100+100" scorers in every level. Mantha was 129+131 in QMJHL. AA was 111+110 in OHL. Mantha 44+44 in AHL, Athanasiou 25+26.

 

[TatarTangle]

Mantha and Athanasiou, all career games in AHL:


Mantha
132 games, 44+44= 88 points
0.67 points per game

Athanasiou
83 games, 25+26=51 points
0.61 points per game

I can't found power-play scoring from anywhere, but if you exclude PP goals (Mantha 14, Athanasiou 2)

Mantha
30 ES goals in 132 games = 0.23 per game

Athanasiou
23 ES goals in 83 games = 0.28 per game

Athanasiou doesn't look bad at all. It was veterans who mostly play PP at Griffins. ES scoring is at least at par or even better than Mantha.


***

BTW, both seem to be "100+100" scorers in every level. Mantha was 129+131 in QMJHL. AA was 111+110 in OHL. Mantha 44+44 in AHL, Athanasiou 25+26.

No offense but it seems you base players talent overwhelmingly on numbers. They're cool to see, don't get me wrong, but they don't paint the entire picture.

I've been lucky enough to play against AHL and NHL players and what someone does in the AHL or minors isn't a guarantee to carry over to the NHL. I would argue, seeing that kind of talent first hand, the jump from the AHL to the NHL is akin to high school football to college or college to the NFL. Completely different games.

As for work ethic, I'd argue you are either born with it or you aren't. Don't really think you can learn work ethic. Talent alone can get you pretty far but if talent doesn't have work ethic / drive they are setting themselves up for mediocrity.

 

[avssuc]

Is that why he gave Helm and Abdelkader their contracts? Seems like a strange justification.

And it is. You might toss DeKeyser on that heap too if he keeps playing like a featherweight bottom-pair defenseman.

 

[Mijatovic]

Dekeyser playing exactly the same he was 3 years ago. Surprised it took everyone so long to catch on hes nothing special.