Andreas Athanasiou

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'm with TSweeney in that I don't think another team is going to try to swoop in and steal AA away. That said, I think what you gain by getting him signed is getting him into camp on time and being ready for the season.

$2m is probably a fair number depending on term, but I think it's clear Holland is now holding firm on something because of his cap numbers. If I'm AA, I signed for as much as I can get while still getting to camp on time...and then try to put up as big a numbers as possible to hold Holland to the fire next year and/or go to arbitration.

I think missing any of camp does AA more harm than that it harms the team.

That is AA's proper course. The Wings proper course too. Signing August 16th or August 31st means nothing. Long as he doesn't miss any of camp, there is no harm, no foul.

If he starts missing camp, then it becomes an issue. People want far too quick a resolution of things. AA wants to play in Detroit. Detroit wants AA. The contract will happen. It just doesn't necessarily have to happen today or tomorrow. Maybe something comes out that Kronner is hurt worse than the Wings thought and all of a sudden they have 5M in cap space and no D man to spend it on. Both are waiting to see what shakes out with the IR situation first.

 

[The Old Master]

Other GMs are planning their own rosters. Teams aren't desperate to give a 2nd round pick and a 2-3M contract so they can "steal" Andreas Athanasiou. Anything below the 2nd round tender and the Wings match without a though.

How many rosters are out there that actually truly have a need for an all-offense, no defense forward who hasn't shown he can actually hold down top 6 minutes at all? How many teams have a free roster space + free cap space + a need for a middle 6 forward?

AA is a fine player, but he has enough warts on his game that no team in the NHL is running to throw 3M at him. Offer sheets are scary when you have an upper echelon player. Not one with fantastic rate stats that maybe he grows into with bigger minutes.

I think the pens would gladly give you their 2nd (more like a high 3rd) for aa. even if we would have to over pat him a little.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I think the pens would gladly give you their 2nd (more like a high 3rd) for aa. even if we would have to over pat him a little.

I was referencing that you'd have to offer up a contract of at least 1.9M, which is the start of 2nd round comp. For the Wings not to match, it would have to be closer to 3M than 2M.

And wasn't Pittsburgh one of those teams that is letting good depth players (Bonino for one) go for dollar reasons? It wouldn't make any sense to swap Bonino out for AA making the same or similar money.

Also, AA isn't the type of guy you break the "unwritten code" of RFA signings for. If you are worried about a revenge signing or something like that... you don't use that bullet on a one-dimensional third line winger with noted motivation issues who you hope you can straighten out and make a top 6 guy.

 

[Frk It]

a one-dimensional third line winger with noted motivation issues

 

[Shaman464]

I did compare his goal-scoring pace (which is his TRICK). It's a proven fact from last 2-season data. 2nd best in NHL.

I didn't say that he is equal overall to Matthews.

One of them plays a ton of minutes against top players.

The other has an artificially high g/60 because of sample bias.

I will let you guess who is who.

 

[The Old Master]

I was referencing that you'd have to offer up a contract of at least 1.9M, which is the start of 2nd round comp. For the Wings not to match, it would have to be closer to 3M than 2M.

And wasn't Pittsburgh one of those teams that is letting good depth players (Bonino for one) go for dollar reasons? It wouldn't make any sense to swap Bonino out for AA making the same or similar money.

Also, AA isn't the type of guy you break the "unwritten code" of RFA signings for. If you are worried about a revenge signing or something like that... you don't use that bullet on a one-dimensional third line winger with noted motivation issues who you hope you can straighten out and make a top 6 guy.

bonino was over priced and not getting better.......aa has more up side.....our gm isn't going to be around very long so I don't think he's too worried about what another team thinks. or even would do .....he won't be around to pay......we have nothing in the system, so even if we draft someone it would be a year or two at best before he would play for us.....our top two centers are getting old. so we need to have someone with skill that can fill in when needed. yes, it would be a gamble on our part.....but....I think It might be one I'd take.
edit; I do think we would try to do a trade instead.

 

[chris05]

"How many rosters are out there that actually truly have a need for an all-offense, no defense forward who hasn't shown he can actually hold down top 6 minutes at all? How many teams have a free roster space + free cap space + a need for a middle 6 forward? "
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Everybody can use a highlight goal scoring machine like AA. Stanley cup contenders who need that little extra help in the goalscoring department to get them over the top. Who else can provide that kind of entertainment with so little playing time and no supporting cast.

 

[Winger98]

man, Petr Klima would be a god in today's NHL.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

[/QUOTE]

Ok, that was a little far.

But, if Athanasiou backchecked as hard as he went on the breakaways or even a fraction of as hard... he should be a defensive terror in a positive way. Just like Helm when healthy can be a dynamite defensive forward.

When it is a routine thing that the coach says "when AA is fully engaged, he's a special player"... I think there is more in the tank that he has to show.

And as much as it seems like I'm tearing down AA... I love him as a player. I think he's got a world of talent. I just think he should be utilizing it better. Highlight reel goals are awesome and I love them... but you gotta backcheck and play defense too and he just doesn't... at all.

If he rounds out his game, he will be an absolutely fantastic player. But he's gotta do it and he hasn't come anywhere close to doing so yet.

And that's why I think the Wings are hard on him and Mantha too. They can do things that not many on the roster can... so they expect to build into them the work ethic and compete level that anyone on the roster can do without losing the creativity and special talent.

 

[TatarTangle]

I did compare his goal-scoring pace (which is his TRICK). It's a proven fact from last 2-season data. 2nd best in NHL.

I didn't say that he is equal overall to Matthews.

Pace is great but AA will never come close to Matthews' numbers due to his limited IT because he can't play in the neutral or defensive zone. Advanced stats like that only tell part of the story.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Pace is great but AA will never come close to Matthews' numbers due to his limited IT because he can't play in the neutral or defensive zone. Advanced stats like that only tell part of the story.

And I just think he can't play in those zones because for lack of a better wording... he doesn't want to play in those zones.

There is no physical reason that AA should not be able to work on his stickplay, backchecking and positioning to become "good enough" to earn top line/top 6 minutes. Not asking him to be Michael Peca or Jere Lehtinen, but he should be better than a tire fire on two thirds of the ice surface if he wants to play more minutes.

 

[Pavels Dog]

And I just think he can't play in those zones because for lack of a better wording... he doesn't want to play in those zones.

There is no physical reason that AA should not be able to work on his stickplay, backchecking and positioning to become "good enough" to earn top line/top 6 minutes. Not asking him to be Michael Peca or Jere Lehtinen, but he should be better than a tire fire on two thirds of the ice surface if he wants to play more minutes.

You overstate how bad he is. Worst part of AA's game right now is how inconsistent he is. Some games he's strong on the puck and plays a solid overall game, other games he's weak on the puck and doesn't put in the work defensively. But he definitely has the capacity to become a good two-way player. He's had some fantastic backchecking and stick-lift work, he's looked alright on the PK, even his very first NHL goal was scored after a nice defensively play behind his own net.

 

[Ezekial]

You overstate how bad he is. Worst part of AA's game right now is how inconsistent he is. Some games he's strong on the puck and plays a solid overall game, other games he's weak on the puck and doesn't put in the work defensively. But he definitely has the capacity to become a good two-way player. He's had some fantastic backchecking and stick-lift work, he's looked alright on the PK, even his very first NHL goal was scored after a nice defensively play behind his own net.

I think this is the key to why AA gets "abused" by the coaching staff. They know he can do it, he just doesn't. The Kings game last season the kid looked like an absolute star player after he was healthy scratched, played well for a couple games and fizzled back.
I mean the highlights show everything, back-checking and offense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rtCCajAhwE

 

[Henkka]

Imo, Athasiou has most upside to take a tremendous step to be our next superstar. And I mean from the level he is now and what he could be.

Mantha is already our 2nd best player after Zetts, but AA could rise challenge them if he will get better consistency.

We have already seen what AA can do. If he will get mentally to "everydayer" level like Zetterberg is, he would be phenomenal player.

Just waiting for that "Athanasiou explosion". Will be bigger than Nyquist's when that happens. :p

 

[Suavecito]

I think this is the key to why AA gets "abused" by the coaching staff. They know he can do it, he just doesn't. The Kings game last season the kid looked like an absolute star player after he was healthy scratched, played well for a couple games and fizzled back.
I mean the highlights show everything, back-checking and offense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rtCCajAhwE

I personally would take anything that the coaching staff has to say with a grain of salt.

Blashill is an idiot.

 

[Ezekial]

I personally would take anything that the coaching staff has to say with a grain of salt.

Blashill is an idiot.

K. That wasn't the point of my statement. AA isn't an everyday effort platter, at least not yet. I don't need Blashill to tell me that.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Imagine AA with Bowman coaching him similar to the way he coached Yzerman. He'd be a far more dangerous player. The tools are there. Our coaching is lacking as someone else pointed out. I think AA has the most upside out of all of our kids save for maybe Mantha.

 

[lilidk]

I don't think he can play 20 minutes in a high speed game I'd rather see him being used as a single wolf, have four players in the back and him up front third line 10-12 minutes a game

 

[jolly roger]

Imagine AA with Bowman coaching him similar to the way he coached Yzerman. He'd be a far more dangerous player. The tools are there. Our coaching is lacking as someone else pointed out. I think AA has the most upside out of all of our kids save for maybe Mantha.

This is the most accurate statement I've read on this thread. Send Blabhill on his way. And buy KH a beer on the way out the door.

 

[Oddbob]

"How many rosters are out there that actually truly have a need for an all-offense, no defense forward who hasn't shown he can actually hold down top 6 minutes at all? How many teams have a free roster space + free cap space + a need for a middle 6 forward? "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everybody can use a highlight goal scoring machine like AA. Stanley cup contenders who need that little extra help in the goalscoring department to get them over the top. Who else can provide that kind of entertainment with so little playing time and no supporting cast.

When has Athanasiou been given top 6 minutes?????

 

[Oddbob]

You overstate how bad he is. Worst part of AA's game right now is how inconsistent he is. Some games he's strong on the puck and plays a solid overall game, other games he's weak on the puck and doesn't put in the work defensively. But he definitely has the capacity to become a good two-way player. He's had some fantastic backchecking and stick-lift work, he's looked alright on the PK, even his very first NHL goal was scored after a nice defensively play behind his own net.

I actually think the worst part of his game, is his usage of his teammates. He tries way too often to do everything by himself, and that works in junior, but not the NHL.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

When has Athanasiou been given top 6 minutes?????

Remember the one game in juniors?

 

[Winger98]

I don't think he can play 20 minutes in a high speed game I'd rather see him being used as a single wolf, have four players in the back and him up front third line 10-12 minutes a game

I actually think the worst part of his game, is his usage of his teammates. He tries way too often to do everything by himself, and that works in junior, but not the NHL.

Those are things that typically come with experience, though. Datsyuk was pretty all-out and doing everything himself when he first got here, and it took him a couple of years to get it ironed out. If Athanasiou is going to find that, he's just going to have to play and hope it clicks.

 

[Bench]

When your team is poor at puck possession and generating sustained offense, individuals try to do too much because they don't trust their teammates. And that compounds the problem.

So I'm not surprised when I see guys like Tatar and AA trying to do too much individually.

 

[Martinez]

It's his turn to play with Z. Larkin and mantha already had theirs