I think most of us Habs fans love the kid to bits. He is an amazing human and an amazing player, you guys are lucky to have him. The work he has done outside of hockey for the children's hospital cannot be understated.
All Purpose PK Subban Discussion Thread
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BlackStar
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2010
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I am truly at a lost for words reading some of the posts in this thread. I literally had my mouth open in shock over some of what I was reading. Judging by some of the post here, you'd think that Subban wasn't the best defencemen in the league this year, which he is, and it's not even particularly close. If the NHL wasn't so anti-intellectual, I would say that if Subban continues to play like he has been this year, he's easily going to win the Norris. Subban is having an incredible season, and no one seems to be paying attention. It's shocking really.
There is so much more for me to say, but I will simply share something I shared on the Habs board a few days ago after the Predators - Kings game:
There are a number of comments about Subban's awful mistake on the King's first goal. And that is probably because most of us are more interested in Subban's performance than Doughty's, for obvious reasons. Still, Subban's game is easily the most scrutinized in all the NHL.
Doughty also made a number of mistakes, two of the mistakes led to two goals against the Kings. Actually, they were worse than Subban's, even if less memorable. Subban's mistake was just bad luck, nothing more. He simply fanned on a pass. That happens to everyone from time to time. Plus, Subban is a lot like other elite puck-movers (like Daughty) in that he occasionally makes poor decisions with the puck in his own zone. For instance, Duncan Keith, Doughty, and Subban have recorded 41, 43, and 43 turnovers respectively so far this season. The difference, however, is that amongst other numbers that suggest that Subban is superior to Doughty and Keith defensively, Subban is averaging 60% of his zone starts in the defensive zone, compared to only 35% for Keith and 50% for Doughty.
For what it's worth, Weber has been averaging more turnovers than Subban since the trade, this in spite of being more sheltered defensively than Subban. Myths take a long time to die, though, especially in hockey.
Anyway, as I was saying, Doughty made two mistakes that led to two goals against his team tonight. They were less sexy mistakes, sure. But they were mistakes nonetheless. Unlike Subban's mistake tonight, they weren't necessarily from bad luck. The mistakes were from poor decision-making. The first one was from a bad pinch which led to Subban's nice assist on Sisson's goal. The second one was from him trying to stickhandle away from one (or two?) Nashville forwards behind his net, which led to Sisson's second goal of the night.
Why aren't we talking about those mistakes? Like I said, it's partly because Subban is an ex-Hab. But it's also partly because Doughty is the Jonathan Toews of defensemen. He is one of the golden boys--we overrate his strengths and turn a blind eye to the weaknesses in his game.
It's hilarious, really. Subban's defensive game is the most scrutinized amongst all his peers, and yet, all his peers are far more sheltered defensively by their coaches than he is.
There is so much more for me to say, but I will simply share something I shared on the Habs board a few days ago after the Predators - Kings game:
There are a number of comments about Subban's awful mistake on the King's first goal. And that is probably because most of us are more interested in Subban's performance than Doughty's, for obvious reasons. Still, Subban's game is easily the most scrutinized in all the NHL.
Doughty also made a number of mistakes, two of the mistakes led to two goals against the Kings. Actually, they were worse than Subban's, even if less memorable. Subban's mistake was just bad luck, nothing more. He simply fanned on a pass. That happens to everyone from time to time. Plus, Subban is a lot like other elite puck-movers (like Daughty) in that he occasionally makes poor decisions with the puck in his own zone. For instance, Duncan Keith, Doughty, and Subban have recorded 41, 43, and 43 turnovers respectively so far this season. The difference, however, is that amongst other numbers that suggest that Subban is superior to Doughty and Keith defensively, Subban is averaging 60% of his zone starts in the defensive zone, compared to only 35% for Keith and 50% for Doughty.
For what it's worth, Weber has been averaging more turnovers than Subban since the trade, this in spite of being more sheltered defensively than Subban. Myths take a long time to die, though, especially in hockey.
Anyway, as I was saying, Doughty made two mistakes that led to two goals against his team tonight. They were less sexy mistakes, sure. But they were mistakes nonetheless. Unlike Subban's mistake tonight, they weren't necessarily from bad luck. The mistakes were from poor decision-making. The first one was from a bad pinch which led to Subban's nice assist on Sisson's goal. The second one was from him trying to stickhandle away from one (or two?) Nashville forwards behind his net, which led to Sisson's second goal of the night.
Why aren't we talking about those mistakes? Like I said, it's partly because Subban is an ex-Hab. But it's also partly because Doughty is the Jonathan Toews of defensemen. He is one of the golden boys--we overrate his strengths and turn a blind eye to the weaknesses in his game.
It's hilarious, really. Subban's defensive game is the most scrutinized amongst all his peers, and yet, all his peers are far more sheltered defensively by their coaches than he is.
BlackStar
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2010
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To be clear, Subban is 4th amongst defencemen in scoring, over his elite peers Doughty, Pietrangelo, Karlsson (in more games played), Burns, Josi, etc...
AND YET, he's receiving much, much more tougher assignments defensively than every single one of his elite peers. For Subban or any defencemen to produce a 60 points pace while starting 60% of his zone starts in the defensive end is absolutely ridiculous.
I have searched and searched, and as far as I can tell. It's NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE since we started tracking this stuff. And you guys are whining!? Oh my goodness. What planet am I on!?
Subban is the best overall defensemen in the league, and no one seems to know it.
AND YET, he's receiving much, much more tougher assignments defensively than every single one of his elite peers. For Subban or any defencemen to produce a 60 points pace while starting 60% of his zone starts in the defensive end is absolutely ridiculous.
I have searched and searched, and as far as I can tell. It's NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE since we started tracking this stuff. And you guys are whining!? Oh my goodness. What planet am I on!?
Subban is the best overall defensemen in the league, and no one seems to know it.
This Preds board hated on Seth Jones when he was here and now they hate on Subban. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Subban is one of the very best D-men in this league yet half the people here want him ran out of town.
I can only speak for myself, but you are preaching to the choir for this Preds fan........
NSH615
...
- Feb 13, 2013
- 11,119
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I don't want him run out of town, just hate his mistakes that seem be magnified by his risk taking and his fake shots.
He has been a blast to watch this season and has had some seriously dominant games. I am thrilled to have him locked up for the foreseeable future and beyond.
FFWRX
Unregistered User
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
His production is a lot of EN goals/points and PP assists. He's been good for sure but his points are misleading. That said, he has to be in the top-5 in Norris talks right now.
This is nowhere close to being accurate
I don't know a single poster here that wants him ran out of town.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
- 13,239
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black star. please don't come here spreading that garbage. he has been solid this year but no where near the best defenseman in the league. and there is not one single person that wants him run out of town. quit being dramatic.
Yeah but the same could be said about Hedman, Letang, Klingberg etc.... They get a ton of assists on the power play, playing with guys like Kucherov, Stamkos, or Benn, Seguin, Radulov, or Crosby, Malkin, Kessel etc... But unlike those Dmen, Subban doesn't always play on the top PP unit with the Preds, the other PP unit often starts the PP.
Since 2013, Subban is 3rd in the league in PP assists for Dmen, that has been one of his biggest asset in his career. He's a threat with his big shot, and the other teams pay close attention to him, so that opens up some space for his teammates.
But I get your point, I would say Subban has been a bit lucky mostly for goals though, he had a bunch of flukey goals this season. But I think his PP stats are legit.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
It is always interesting to me that when it comes to Subban, anytime someone says something good about him, there is always a "but" to follow. You can see it in this thread. He is on pace for 60 points, BUT- those stats are misleading because of empty net goals, secondary assists. He is a solid player, but not good enough for the money he makes. ETC, ETC, ETC.
Speaking of that- I tell you what, those empty net goals are dang important- our play in empty net situations is god awful and every time he gets one of those meaningless empty net goals it prevents us from giving up the tying goal that happens to us so often.
It may be an overstatement that some Preds fans want him run out of town, but in my opinion he is absolutely under appreciated by many Preds fans. He may not be the best defenseman in the league but he dang sure is one of best.
Speaking of that- I tell you what, those empty net goals are dang important- our play in empty net situations is god awful and every time he gets one of those meaningless empty net goals it prevents us from giving up the tying goal that happens to us so often.
It may be an overstatement that some Preds fans want him run out of town, but in my opinion he is absolutely under appreciated by many Preds fans. He may not be the best defenseman in the league but he dang sure is one of best.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
I think y'all make way too much out of the negative comments sometimes. You can offer praise and criticism at the same time and it be perfectly valid.
Now the stuff we were seeing where people were just mad because Weber got traded is one thing, that was silly, but most of that has stopped.
Gnashville
HFBoards Hall of Famer
Huh like no one hated Seth (outside of the fact he was another defender and some wanted Barkov) and certainly no one wants P.K. gone. Being critical of his game doesn’t mean we want him traded. If Edmonton offers McDavid for him then yes trade away but that ain’t happening.
I think it’s more that Ellis, Ek, & Yoshi are “our guys” so to speak in that we have followed them since their names were called on draft day so we are more invested in their careers so far. I remember watching Windsor games with a baby faced human rocket ship scoring goals on the moon and the excitement that his game could translate into the team some day, or watching Josi with more ads on his jersey than a NASCAR racer, or hearing about this kid we took in the 4th round being the Elitserien Rookie of the year. I don’t have those memories of PK as a kid or prospect and don’t remember watching his NHL debut with the team. So we yeah we do cut them more slack than PK. Over the course of a year they all make huge mistakes. PK acknowledges his when it happens which shows leadership to me.
BrendanGallagher11
Registered User
- Aug 13, 2007
- 35,482
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Im not sure anybody seriously wants him off the team. His salary and his personality make him an easy target for anyone frustrated with the team, but the way most of the year has gone, there isn't much to really be frustrated about. I am as big a Weber fan as anybody but I wouldn't undo that trade under any circumstance.
PunkRockLocke
Registered User
In any other sport he would be embraced for his personality.
Is he a bit overpaid? Maybe. Although this season he can be considered the best, or a top-5, Dman in the league. When Doughty and Karlsson are each making $11mil a year in 2019-20, P.K. won't seem overpaid.
This guy deserves some love, and should be in serious contention for his second Norris this season. I hope the voters realize that.
Is he a bit overpaid? Maybe. Although this season he can be considered the best, or a top-5, Dman in the league. When Doughty and Karlsson are each making $11mil a year in 2019-20, P.K. won't seem overpaid.
This guy deserves some love, and should be in serious contention for his second Norris this season. I hope the voters realize that.
The fact that there is even a hint of a question of whether any Preds fan would rather not have Subban on the Preds pretty much says it all- completely mind-boggling that it is even a hint of a possibility.
But see, this is what gets me and what I truly don't understand- his personality making him a target. This is absolutely true but I will never, ever understand it. His personality is AWESOME. The fact that anyone can look at anything he does and look at it as a negative is just completely mind-boggling. Especially in today's world where there is so much bad. And I could MAYBE understand it a little if it was just rivals and opposing fans who felt this way. BUT IT IS MANY OF HIS OWN TEAM'S FANS who feel that way to. It happened in Montreal and it is happening here, too. And I honestly did not think that would happen here.
As others have pointed out, in just about any other sport he would be celebrated and embraced and be probably the biggest star in the world.
Eh anyone who still believes this team would be better off with Weber rather than Subban is probably not even worth talking Preds with. (Outside of allowing them to comment on how awesome that catfish hat looks.)
ViperXX79
Registered User
I don't understand his empty net and PP points being a negative. He is trusted by his coach to be on the ice in those situations. Meaning he must be really good. If those didn't mean much then Weber and Irwin would be out there. If he wasn't getting points in those situations then people would be complaining about that.
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