Speculation: All Purpose Pierre-Luc Dubois Discussion 3.0

[majormajor]

All due respect, this isn't going to be a post that, in five years time, you look back on fondly.

You've knocked down three values here using speculation. That's a lot that has to go right for you to look smart out of this one.

Oh it is all speculation all around, on both sides of the argument. In five years I doubt those three pieces add up to a #1C, we'll see. The Rangers will probably make a big trade for a center in the coming years and people will learn again that you can't just add up a bunch of wingers to make that happen.

 

[Kegs]

Reading through this thread is hilarious. Ppl looking at PLD and determining he is a run of the mill 50 point player. Have any of you watched him play? Granted he hasn’t been great in his past two games. But his ceiling is franchise #1 centre. These prospects every one is offering would be robbery. This guy is a complete two way centre with offensive talent. He is looking like a stud to me. U feel for Columbus fans. Seems the best players just walk even though the gm manages that team wonderfully. I wonder what a Columbus fan would want in return for this stud centre. He way better then all the habs centres. I read someone trying to say the habs don’t need him. No they don’t. But they would be significantly better. He would instantly jump to #1 centre in montreal.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

You sound envious. The Rangers have been in a rebuild for 3 years and have totally changed the core of the team and have a top 3 prospect pool in the league with a very bright future. They will continue to add depth and balance to a roster that already has a good deal of top end talent. They lose 11 million in dead cap space after this year. It's all about next year and beyond with this team. Talk to me in 2 years.

So if I criticize the Oilers rebuild I am envious of McDavid and Drasaitl (who, face it, are much more envy worthy than anyone the Rangers have)

I'm sure Rangers will be a good team coming out of the rebuild but they squandered a ton of resources and opportunity to become a Tampa or Colorado tier team and forfeited a couple years of being competitive. In 2 years they'll be entering playoff growing pains that Toronto was going through 2 years ago

 

[TBF1972]

It’s fine to think that. He’s going to want a contract in the range of $9m in 2 years and he’s never broken 60 pts yet. Is he that guy? Maybe.

How many 2nd overall picks get traded for 60 pt players one year after getting drafted? Not to mention it was pretty close to a 1A 1B situation between Hughes and Kakko. No thanks, I’ll keep my guy and take my chances with the longer cost controlled player who might also end up being the better scorer.

i fully understand the support for kakko from rangers fans. every fan base would do it.

fact is on the devils board, who actually discussed whom to pick with the #1 pick, there were few to no kakko supporter for the #1 pick. hughes was the clear cut #1 pick in the eyes of the devils fan base and the race wasn't close at all. some even preferred byram over kakko. mostly because of positional need and they fell in love with byram before winning the lottery.

so calling kakko a 1b pick is a narrative, which exists only in specific universes.

 

[TBF1972]

Yeah some of the CBJ fans have been a little embarrassing in here, packages that have Kaako, Turcotte, Merkley, Brannstrom, with a first would get my attention for sure, the rest of the package would have to determine a yes or no though.

merkley from nj is available.

 

[TBF1972]

All due respect, this isn't going to be a post that, in five years time, you look back on fondly.

You've knocked down three values here using speculation. That's a lot that has to go right for you to look smart out of this one.

to contradict his statement you need the same amount of speculation. the 1st pick only exists on paper so far, kravtsov hasn't made it to the nhl yet and kakko was a disappointment in the first year. nobody knows, who will be right in five years.

 

[Easternbull]

Kekäläinen NEEDS to get a good center back in irder to move PLD. You can't ice a team with Domi, Jenner, Nash and Koivu as their top centers.

I still say Calgary and Montreal are the best bets to get this done, Monahan+ or KK +.

 

[jay from jersey]

So if I criticize the Oilers rebuild I am envious of McDavid and Drasaitl (who, face it, are much more envy worthy than anyone the Rangers have)

I'm sure Rangers will be a good team coming out of the rebuild but they squandered a ton of resources and opportunity to become a Tampa or Colorado tier team and forfeited a couple years of being competitive. In 2 years they'll be entering playoff growing pains that Toronto was going through 2 years ago

Youngest team in the league., Top 3 prospect pool., 2 really good young goal tenders, one of the top FA destinations. Keep telling yourself that pal

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Ive seen proposal where the habs give up KK + 1st + Guhle/Caufield, and I can guarantee that Bergevin will never do that.

Bergevin has been the habs gm for 8 years, and he's never traded a 1st round pick. The only high end prospect/young player he has traded is Sergachev.

He traded one of those in 8 years. I cant imagine he will be willing to trade 3 of those in a single trade. Even in the aho offer sheat, the habs were only going to give up 1 first round pick.

Trading Suzuki is even less likelier than trading that package.

Of course if Bergevin wants Dubois, then he will need to give, but he isnt going to break the bank for it. KK has high potential, so they could just wait for him to develop.

Other than Laine, I doubt the jackets will get a better offer than KK + 1st, which is the highest I could see Bergevin going.

 

[karhukissa]

What's going on in Columbus? Is it the city that's so bad that these players (Panarin/Bob before) wants out or is it all Torts? Team itself looks okay to me, very good d-core and decent forward core too.

I don't understand some of these offers which doesn't contain atleast top-6 center as a base. For example Laine to PLD = never. No point for Columbus to trade center this good for a winger, even though that winger is amazing.

Something like PLD for Suzuki+ would be interesting though.

 

[Boud]

What's going on in Columbus? Is it the city that's so bad that these players (Panarin/Bob before) wants out or is it all Torts? Team itself looks okay to me, very good d-core and decent forward core too.

I don't understand some of these offers which doesn't contain atleast top-6 center as a base. For example Laine to PLD = never. No point for Columbus to trade center this good for a winger, even though that winger is amazing.

Something like PLD for Suzuki+ would be interesting though.

The reason you don't see many offers with top 6 centers involved is because teams that are looking to acquire Dubois are trying to fill that exact same void, they do not have a top 6 C to trade because they need one.

I really don't see why Montreal would trade Suzuki for Dubois. If that trade was on the table (Suzuki+), the deal would've already been made.

If Montreal is involved it has to be KK or Danault with other assets but I'm starting to think it might be a tough deal to make for both sides.

 

[LOFIN]

Kaako, Kravstov and a 1st is middling crap? I'm a huge PLD fan but that's a really good package

While I agree on this, it isn't what CBJ needs. They need a top line center back NOW, if they are making the trade. They are not rebuilding. They are not in a hurry to make the trade if they can't get a suitable package back.

 

[jonlin]

He's not getting Laf but he's much closer to Laf value than Kakko value that's for sure

Based on what? I remember 2yrs back when Leaf-fans told the world Heiskanen + unprotected 1st is worth nowhere near Nylander...
There is a think called progression. A 18/19yr old is seldom a finnished product. And looking back at Kakko`s career he has done exceptionally well on every facet.

 

[TheBPA]

The thing is Kakko has looked awful so far in the NHL while PLD looks like a stud. There is just no way anyone would trade PLD for Kakko today. Maybe this changes in the future if KK starts moving his feet and actually producing.

In no universe would Kakko get you PLD without adding on.

Also, I’m pretty sure you’re thebpa. Both of you are arguing the same silliness and both appear to be smooth brains.

ok Bankers Box aka UnfinishedBusiness.

When PLD was 18 he was still in the Q. Kakko was in the NHL.

When PLD was 18 he went to world juniors. There was no point in sending Kakko to world juniors because he had nothing left to prove after leading Finland to gold.

You seem to think that a low scoring season in the NHL as an 18 year old after never even crossing the Atlantic Ocean before means that he’s a bust.

I look forward to you eating crow in 2-3 years when your opinion isn’t even remotely close to accurate but you’ll probably have fallen off of the end of the flat earth that you are convinced exists by then.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Hello. I figured since there were so many of me in this thread already that I would stop by and say hi!

 

[glenbuis]

What's going on in Columbus? Is it the city that's so bad that these players (Panarin/Bob before) wants out or is it all Torts? Team itself looks okay to me, very good d-core and decent forward core too.

I don't understand some of these offers which doesn't contain atleast top-6 center as a base. For example Laine to PLD = never. No point for Columbus to trade center this good for a winger, even though that winger is amazing.

Something like PLD for Suzuki+ would be interesting though.

I think it’s all torts . I don’t think a single player on that team would miss him .

 

[Burke the Legend]

Ive seen proposal where the habs give up KK + 1st + Guhle/Caufield, and I can guarantee that Bergevin will never do that.

Bergevin has been the habs gm for 8 years, and he's never traded a 1st round pick. The only high end prospect/young player he has traded is Sergachev.

He traded one of those in 8 years. I cant imagine he will be willing to trade 3 of those in a single trade. Even in the aho offer sheat, the habs were only going to give up 1 first round pick.

Trading Suzuki is even less likelier than trading that package.

Of course if Bergevin wants Dubois, then he will need to give, but he isnt going to break the bank for it. KK has high potential, so they could just wait for him to develop.

Other than Laine, I doubt the jackets will get a better offer than KK + 1st, which is the highest I could see Bergevin going.

Since Dubois is 22 it would be similar to Sergachev for 22 year old Drouin. He would trade Kotkaniemi for Dubois.

 

[Bankers Box]

ok Bankers Box aka UnfinishedBusiness.

When PLD was 18 he was still in the Q. Kakko was in the NHL.

When PLD was 18 he went to world juniors. There was no point in sending Kakko to world juniors because he had nothing left to prove after leading Finland to gold.

You seem to think that a low scoring season in the NHL as an 18 year old after never even crossing the Atlantic Ocean before means that he’s a bust.

I look forward to you eating crow in 2-3 years when your opinion isn’t even remotely close to accurate but you’ll probably have fallen off of the end of the flat earth that you are convinced exists by then.

As of now, Kakko hasn’t shown any glimpse of elite skill. He can’t skate, can’t think the game and is constantly out of position. He drags every line he is on down.

I never once said Kakko won’t improve one day but as of today it would be too risky for Columbus to trade PLD for someone who currently looks as poor as Kakko.

Even if, and it’s a big if, Kakko were to reach his potential, he would only be a bit better than PLD and plays a less important decision.

 

[Monk]

Even if, and it’s a big if, Kakko were to reach his potential, he would only be a bit better than PLD and plays a less important decision.

But what if PLD were to reach his potential?

 

[PuckLuck3043]

So if I criticize the Oilers rebuild I am envious of McDavid and Drasaitl (who, face it, are much more envy worthy than anyone the Rangers have)

I'm sure Rangers will be a good team coming out of the rebuild but they squandered a ton of resources and opportunity to become a Tampa or Colorado tier team and forfeited a couple years of being competitive. In 2 years they'll be entering playoff growing pains that Toronto was going through 2 years ago

They didn't squander anything, lol. That's a ridiculous statement. Not every move works out but GMJG and John Davidson have done far more good than bad. They have rebuilt the core of the team and the prospect pool in 3 f'ing years. How long do you think rebuilds take? Trouba, Panarin, Fox, Kakko, Shesterkin, have been on the team only since last year. LAF and K'Andre Miller were added this year. Next year it will likely be Lundkvist and Kravtsov with other top prospects such as Zac Jones, Matthew Robertson, Morgan Barron, Braden Schneider, among others, waiting in the wings or being used in trades to upgrade the roster. They will not only be a good team, they will be a serious contender in the near future. Talk to me in 2 years. Oh and there is a pretty good chance that PLD does wind up on the Rangers. The have the resources to get it done.

 

[Sinkkunaattori]

I really don't see why Montreal would trade Suzuki for Dubois.

You guys love your French boys though. Wasn't there a story that they wanted to trade P.K. to Edmonton for their pick to draft Dubois? But then CBJ ruined it for them.

And now he's available. Bergy might just be salivating about it

 

[KevinRedkey]

All I'm seeing is "X doesn't get you close to PLD" by Columbus fans.
Then what exactly does? Genuinely curious as to what is expected in return here.

Edit: I guess N.Suzuki is the answer?

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

They didn't squander anything, lol. That's a ridiculous statement. Not every move works out but GMJG and John Davidson have done far more good than bad. They have rebuilt the core of the team and the prospect pool in 3 f'ing years. How long do you think rebuilds take? Trouba, Panarin, Fox, Kakko, Shesterkin, have been on the team only since last year. LAF and K'Andre Miller were added this year. Next year it will likely be Lundkvist and Kravtsov with other top prospects such as Zac Jones, Matthew Robertson, Morgan Barron, Braden Schneider, among others, waiting in the wings or being used in trades to upgrade the roster. They will not only be a good team, they will be a serious contender in the near future. Talk to me in 2 years. Oh and there is a pretty good chance that PLD does wind up on the Rangers. The have the resources to get it done.

they do but i really dont see Columbus trading PLD without getting a good center back,Domi cannot be their top center

 

[SnowblindNYR]

They didn't squander anything, lol. That's a ridiculous statement. Not every move works out but GMJG and John Davidson have done far more good than bad. They have rebuilt the core of the team and the prospect pool in 3 f'ing years. How long do you think rebuilds take? Trouba, Panarin, Fox, Kakko, Shesterkin, have been on the team only since last year. LAF and K'Andre Miller were added this year. Next year it will likely be Lundkvist and Kravtsov with other top prospects such as Zac Jones, Matthew Robertson, Morgan Barron, Braden Schneider, among others, waiting in the wings or being used in trades to upgrade the roster. They will not only be a good team, they will be a serious contender in the near future. Talk to me in 2 years. Oh and there is a pretty good chance that PLD does wind up on the Rangers. The have the resources to get it done.

Same guy was probably saying in 13-14 and 14-15 how the Rangers weren't a cup contender because they had no top talent outside of Lundqvist and now they "squandered resources".

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Never mind, I thought this was about Kakko.