Speculation: All Purpose Pierre-Luc Dubois Discussion 3.0

[Fitzy]

PLD has shown that he can lead the team in points without Panarin as well. In a far more demanding system than Kaakko or Strome are playing.

Leading the Blue Jackers in scoring since Panarin left has not exactly been a challenging or noteworthy achievement. 49 points? Dear lord

 

[DropTheGloves]

What did Johansen get? Dubois would likely get the same return..

Why? Johansen was traded after a 70 and 60 point season and was scoring at 0.7 PPG when he was traded. Dubois has only been over 50 once in his career. I know Jackets fans are desperate to compare the two because that trade worked out in their favor, but Dubois and Johansen aren't really anything alike beyond size and draft position.

 

[Bankers Box]

Yes I saw. You said PLD can put up points with Panarin so can Strome. Doesn’t mean their value is the same. Your judging kakko on a sub par rookie year after playing non. Stop hockey. He has dominated leagues with men as a kid. But you will continue to make clown shoes arguments about legit prospects anyway. So go ahead keep going

The thing is Kakko has looked awful so far in the NHL while PLD looks like a stud. There is just no way anyone would trade PLD for Kakko today. Maybe this changes in the future if KK starts moving his feet and actually producing.

In no universe would Kakko get you PLD without adding on.

Also, I’m pretty sure you’re thebpa. Both of you are arguing the same silliness and both appear to be smooth brains.

 

[glenbuis]

Habs would have to dump 5M in cap the other way to make that work. Byron + would have to go back. I don't see the Habs emptying the prospect cupboard for Dubois when C is not a need.

Byron would just about do it . Add kulak . Hardly emptying the cupboard

 

[glenbuis]

I agree, that’s the best offer we’ve seen made here. I’m still not sold on KK being the main piece but there’s value in that proposal.

Going through these threads I still think the best offer made was mine:

KK+CC+1st

For Dubois

Also pay a team with a ton of capspace to retain about half. (LA's GM said he was interested in doing something like this)

Paying them a 2nd+lehkonen (2nd and 3rd liner with RFA status to eat 5 million in total, a b prospect may need to be thrown in there).


While this sets Columbus back this year, a couple years from now they should be doing pretty well long term with this. While in the long run Dubois and KK may be similar players Habs best players are ready to win now so is Dubois and KK needs more development time. So we are paying for the certainty and 2 years of development time.

I agree Mine was similar Needed to many extra pieces to make cap work

 

[glenbuis]

Fine. The Habs are fine with that. Keep him. From what other teams are offering for him in this thread it looks like you will have to keep him.

You already fleeced us in the Domi /Anderson trade. Don't expect to fleece us again.

This must be a joke . Have you watched hockey this year ?

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Leading the Blue Jackers in scoring since Panarin left has not exactly been a challenging or noteworthy achievement. 49 points? Dear lord

It's like Rangers fans completely forgot what it's like for a team to play under Tortorella. Can't say I blame them

 

[glenbuis]

I know it’s way to early to tell but saying Montreal was fleeced in the domi trade sounds crazy to me

I think I missed the sarcasm

 

[YanniPodz]

Leading the Blue Jackers in scoring since Panarin left has not exactly been a challenging or noteworthy achievement. 49 points? Dear lord

They had 1 winger play more than 50 games. do you like, do any research whatsoever, or do you type just to hear yourself type?

 

[YanniPodz]

Why? Johansen was traded after a 70 and 60 point season and was scoring at 0.7 PPG when he was traded. Dubois has only been over 50 once in his career. I know Jackets fans are desperate to compare the two because that trade worked out in their favor, but Dubois and Johansen aren't really anything alike beyond size and draft position.

PLD was on a 57 point pace last year....

 

[Aurinko]

I know it’s way to early to tell but saying Montreal was fleeced in the domi trade sounds crazy to me

I think I missed the sarcasm

It's way too early to tell. Certainly doesn't look like MTL got fleeced atm.

 

[YanniPodz]

I agree Mine was similar Needed to many extra pieces to make cap work

the more cap dumps the habs want the blue jackets to take back, the better the value the pieces have to be that actually land PLD.
just to keep that in mind.

 

[YanniPodz]

I know it’s way to early to tell but saying Montreal was fleeced in the domi trade sounds crazy to me

I think I missed the sarcasm

nobody on columbus played well this weekend, PLD even has just 2 SOG in about 35 minutes of icetime, but Domi was one of our best forwards and probably out played PLD if we are being honest.

 

[Sasso09]

Oh he’s costs LAF now. Maybe his will contend with McDavid soon and challenge Gretzky’s records. Give me a break. Your making yourself look silly

He's not getting Laf but he's much closer to Laf value than Kakko value that's for sure

 

[glenbuis]

nobody on columbus played well this weekend, PLD even has just 2 SOG in about 35 minutes of icetime, but Domi was one of our best forwards and probably out played PLD if we are being honest.

That’s great to hear because I’m a big domi fan . IMHO though Anderson will suit us so much better . Health will be the long term key .

 

[ViD]

Dubois for Kaako, Kravtsov and a 1st. Huge price but Rangers would be tough to beat.

kreider Zibanejad Buch
Lafreniere Dubois Panarin
Chytil Strome Gauthier
Lemieux Howden PDG

I would literally demand Jarmo resignation, would not want Kakko at all

 

[ViD]

Kakko is middling crap?
CBJ fans would be very disappointed when PLD does get traded

Yes, Kakko is a future bust

 

[Sasso09]

Yeah that's not that appealing to the Jackets. Bunch of middling crap. I think there's pretty much zero chance they'd send him to the Rangers. The Rangers would have to clearly have the best offer and that is far from happening here.

Kaako, Kravstov and a 1st is middling crap? I'm a huge PLD fan but that's a really good package

 

[Sasso09]

I would literally demand Jarmo resignation, would not want Kakko at all

I must have missed something....

 

[YanniPodz]

Kaako, Kravstov and a 1st is middling crap? I'm a huge PLD fan but that's a really good package

Yeah some of the CBJ fans have been a little embarrassing in here, packages that have Kaako, Turcotte, Merkley, Brannstrom, with a first would get my attention for sure, the rest of the package would have to determine a yes or no though.

 

[bsu]

He's not getting Laf but he's much closer to Laf value than Kakko value that's for sure

Facts

 

[ViD]

I must have missed something....

I don’t want Kakko in CBJ by amy means. Nothing to miss here

 

[majormajor]

Kaako, Kravstov and a 1st is middling crap? I'm a huge PLD fan but that's a really good package

I've had to say it over and over again, but Kakko is no guarantee to even be a topline winger, and he'd have to be one hell of a winger someday to compensate for PLD. Kravtsov is maybe getting overrated here too, not sure how you'd rank him but the Jackets have several Russian forwards of a similar or better caliber (three younger guys that are progressing better). Rangers first might be pretty good but there's a good chance that it's not top 8 or even top 12.

Here's how I'm thinking about it - when you trade an established player for a package of futures, you do so with the understanding that the package will probably someday be better than that player. The established player is a lot older and will age out, the futures will hit their primes and pay off the suffering. But PLD is a 22 year old #1C. There's a >50% chance that he provides more value to his team than that combined package two years from now, five years from now, even ten years from now. The Jackets get worse now and probably stay worse. That's not how this is supposed to work.

 

[Fitzy]

They had 1 winger play more than 50 games. do you like, do any research whatsoever, or do you type just to hear yourself type?

I mean... I do have a musical keyboard.

 

[Fitzy]

I've had to say it over and over again, but Kakko is no guarantee to even be a topline winger, and he'd have to be one hell of a winger someday to compensate for PLD. Kravtsov is maybe getting overrated here too, not sure how you'd rank him but the Jackets have several Russian forwards of a similar or better caliber (three younger guys that are progressing better). Rangers first might be pretty good but there's a good chance that it's not top 8 or even top 12.

Here's how I'm thinking about it - when you trade an established player for a package of futures, you do so with the understanding that the package will probably someday be better than that player. The established player is a lot older and will age out, the futures will hit their primes and pay off the suffering. But PLD is a 22 year old #1C. There's a >50% chance that he provides more value to his team than that combined package two years from now, five years from now, even ten years from now. The Jackets get worse now and probably stay worse. That's not how this is supposed to work.

All due respect, this isn't going to be a post that, in five years time, you look back on fondly.

You've knocked down three values here using speculation. That's a lot that has to go right for you to look smart out of this one.