Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD PT2 - It's Been 84 Years....

[BB88]

Hmm I guess Miller would fit that description too then? They’re the same age and Miller has actually been a slightly better offensive producer than Gaudreau over the last 3 seasons while playing a more important position and having a much better all around game. Miller would also be cheaper than JG.

Again you know your team more than I do. Not trying to be pushy, but the logic of being all in on Gaudreau but not interested in Miller is confusing to me.

Gaudreau is definitely seem as tier above Miller.
He was 2nd in scoring this year and is seen as one of the best offensive players in the league

 

[Peter Griffin]

Gaudreau is definitely seem as tier above Miller.
He was 2nd in scoring this year and is seen as one of the best offensive players in the league

I agree that Gaudreau is the more dynamic offensive player, but Gaudreau had by far the better linemates last season. Miller’s most consistent linemates were Tanner Pearson, Brock Boeser and Conor Garland. When he did play with Pettersson is was mostly early in the season when EP was a shadow of himself.

 

[BB88]

I agree that Gaudreau is the more dynamic offensive player, but Gaudreau had by far the better linemates last season. Miller’s most consistent linemates were Tanner Pearson, Brock Boeser and Conor Garland. When he did play with Pettersson is was mostly early in the season when EP was a shadow of himself.

Gaudreau still has a Cv that has 78, 84, 99 and 115 point seasons under his belt.
He’s just more dynamic and I highly doubt Lindholm would be what he is today without Gaudreau, certainly not offensively

Millers career high points are 99& 72 for comparison.

 

[Bizzare]

Gaudreau still has a Cv that has 78, 84, 99 and 115 point seasons under his belt.
He’s just more dynamic and I highly doubt Lindholm would be what he is today without Gaudreau, certainly not offensively

Millers career high points are 99& 72 for comparison.

A little misleading since Miller has a slightly higher PPG over the past 3 seasons. They're close, with Miller being capable of playing center, slightly older and Johnny having the better career statistics.

 

[Bondra slapshot]

A little misleading since Miller has a slightly higher PPG over the past 3 seasons. They're close, with Miller being capable of playing center, slightly older and Johnny having the better career statistics.

depends on what BB88 was insinuating if it's misleading or not. A player can have a great PPG but if he doesn't play full seasons or isn't as reliable/durable, then that still yields the same outcome in the fact that he wasn't as much of a contributor. Playing full seasons has value as well. So, it depends really. It's not necessarily misleading if he was stating that if you had a pick between two players, where they're equal in PPG but one has a stronger pedigree in clocking in full seasons and maintaining that PPG throughout a longer amount of games played (higher sample, more impressive), then said player is generally more valuable. Nothing misleading here.

 

[ginner classic]

No one cares, I’ve already moved on. He’ll be a Canuck for like ten more minutes. Literally does the entire Vancouver area have nothing better to do than sit on HFBoards and wait to correct people about a player who is on his way out?

You just proved yourself a troll. You need a timeout.

 

[boredmale]

J.t. Miller Faceoff NHL | StatMuse

J.T. Miller had 1,461 faceoffs this season.

www.statmuse.com

Someone apparently oughta tell Boudreau he's been using his left winger incorrectly

 

[Bizzare]

depends on what BB88 was insinuating if it's misleading or not. A player can have a great PPG but if he doesn't play full seasons or isn't as reliable/durable, then that still yields the same outcome in the fact that he wasn't as much of a contributor. Playing full seasons has value as well. So, it depends really. It's not necessarily misleading if he was stating that if you had a pick between two players, where they're equal in PPG but one has a stronger pedigree in clocking in full seasons and maintaining that PPG throughout a longer amount of games played (higher sample, more impressive), then said player is generally more valuable. Nothing misleading here.

It’s misleading because outside of last season the point totals he is referencing is 4 or more seasons ago for Johnny. No one would argue that he was a better player at that stage of their careers.

Millers best seasons have been the last 3 years, two of which were shortened seasons. Where he missed a total of about 5 games, all I believe due to Covid.

If we look at the recent past, this is a close comparison.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

depends on what BB88 was insinuating if it's misleading or not. A player can have a great PPG but if he doesn't play full seasons or isn't as reliable/durable, then that still yields the same outcome in the fact that he wasn't as much of a contributor. Playing full seasons has value as well. So, it depends really. It's not necessarily misleading if he was stating that if you had a pick between two players, where they're equal in PPG but one has a stronger pedigree in clocking in full seasons and maintaining that PPG throughout a longer amount of games played (higher sample, more impressive), then said player is generally more valuable. Nothing misleading here.

JT plays full seasons. Not his fault 2 of his best 3 came during Covid.

 

[MajinBo]

Canucks will resign Miller 3 years and Horvat long term

 

[Ruthervin]

Miller as a Sweetener?

I have a slightly different idea with regards to a Miller trade:

Instead of the Canucks looking to move Miller for a 1st rounder and/or a young elite right sided defenseman with shut down capabilities (which might not be a realistic ask on Vancouver's part), what if the Canucks made a 'hockey deal' using Miller as a sweetener to move Tyler Myers? The expectation being that the Canucks would receive an upgrade on their right side defence with the trade off being that they'd receive a lesser forward in return.

So for example - Miller and Myers to New Jersey for Severson and [lesser forward] to Vancouver, or Miller + Myers to Boston for Carlo and [lesser forward] to Vancouver.

Or, Miller, Poolman, and Dickinson to another team for a young forward + more cost effective replacement for Poolman + more cost effective replacement for Dickinson.

 

[IslandersFan17]

You just proved yourself a troll. You need a timeout.

Nah

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Gaudreau is definitely seem as tier above Miller.
He was 2nd in scoring this year and is seen as one of the best offensive players in the league

They have been pretty similar PPG over the past 3 seasons and Miller is definitely the better two way player and can also play Center. I think it is closer than you think. You have to look at more than points when. Evaluating a players worth. For example I rather have a healthy Crosby in the playoffs than either of Gaudreau or Miller this coming season.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Miller as a Sweetener?

I have a slightly different idea with regards to a Miller trade:

Instead of the Canucks looking to move Miller for a 1st rounder and/or a young elite right sided defenseman with shut down capabilities (which might not be a realistic ask on Vancouver's part), what if the Canucks made a 'hockey deal' using Miller as a sweetener to move Tyler Myers? The expectation being that the Canucks would receive an upgrade on their right side defence with the trade off being that they'd receive a lesser forward in return.

So for example - Miller and Myers to New Jersey for Severson and [lesser forward] to Vancouver, or Miller + Myers to Boston for Carlo and [lesser forward] to Vancouver.

Or, Miller, Poolman, and Dickinson to another team for a young forward + more cost effective replacement for Poolman + more cost effective replacement for Dickinson.

Myers appears to have value in the league. Why would Miller he a sweetener?

 

[BB88]

A little misleading since Miller has a slightly higher PPG over the past 3 seasons. They're close, with Miller being capable of playing center, slightly older and Johnny having the better career statistics.

It’s really not.

This high end play for Miller has a shorter track record.
Where as with Gaudreau we can look and say he has been a superstar to elite throughout his career.

I’d bet no one sees Miller in the highest tier of superstars where as Gaudreau belongs to that group.

If Miller was we wouldn’t be hearing about the Zib like contract numbers mid last year.
We are looking at 10+ then

They have been pretty similar PPG over the past 3 seasons and Miller is definitely the better two way player and can also play Center. I think it is closer than you think. You have to look at more than points when. Evaluating a players worth. For example I rather have a healthy Crosby in the playoffs than either of Gaudreau or Miller this coming season.

I know very well how valuable 2way game is.

Gaudreau and Miller are still in different tiers.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Miller as a Sweetener?

I have a slightly different idea with regards to a Miller trade:

Instead of the Canucks looking to move Miller for a 1st rounder and/or a young elite right sided defenseman with shut down capabilities (which might not be a realistic ask on Vancouver's part), what if the Canucks made a 'hockey deal' using Miller as a sweetener to move Tyler Myers? The expectation being that the Canucks would receive an upgrade on their right side defence with the trade off being that they'd receive a lesser forward in return.

So for example - Miller and Myers to New Jersey for Severson and [lesser forward] to Vancouver, or Miller + Myers to Boston for Carlo and [lesser forward] to Vancouver.

Or, Miller, Poolman, and Dickinson to another team for a young forward + more cost effective replacement for Poolman + more cost effective replacement for Dickinson.

Devils can’t take back that much salary and we wouldn’t want Myers taking a spot from Nemec next season or even this season.

I’m guessing Severson is dealt at the deadline and Nemec steps up full time by the end of the season.

I’m all for trading Severson anytime before the deadline though. Smith can play the 3rd pair on the right side if needed. Just can’t take both Miller and Myers.

 

[Ruthervin]

Myers appears to have value in the league. Why would Miller he a sweetener?

Good point. I don't think I should have used the word 'sweetener.' I should have just phrased it as a 'hockey deal' in which the Canucks make trade in which they upgrade Myers on D while accepting a downgrade up front (for Miller) in the form of someone younger with upside.

Devils can’t take back that much salary and we wouldn’t want Myers taking a spot from Nemec next season or even this season.

I’m guessing Severson is dealt at the deadline and Nemec steps up full time by the end of the season.

I’m all for trading Severson anytime before the deadline though. Smith can play the 3rd pair on the right side if needed. Just can’t take both Miller and Myers.

Fair enough. My line of thinking was that the salaries would still come close to evening out. Miller and Myers to you guys, and Severson + our way (that + being a forward with a high cap hit). You're probably right though - Severson will probably get dealt at the deadline.

 

[Viqsi]

I agree that Gaudreau is the more dynamic offensive player, but Gaudreau had by far the better linemates last season. Miller’s most consistent linemates were Tanner Pearson, Brock Boeser and Conor Garland. When he did play with Pettersson is was mostly early in the season when EP was a shadow of himself.

...I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to claim that Brock Boeser and Conor Garland are substandard linemates?

 

[CanucksSayEh]

...I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to claim that Brock Boeser and Conor Garland are substandard linemates?

They are good, and I think will be much better this coming season, but... JT outscored both of them..

Combined..

No other player in the league dominated offensively with so little help.

 

[Peter Griffin]

...I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to claim that Brock Boeser and Conor Garland are substandard linemates?

Compared to Matthew Tkachuk and Elias Lindholm? Absolutely. Boeser was subpar last year too.

 

[Love]

...I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to claim that Brock Boeser and Conor Garland are substandard linemates?

You’re free to go and DYOR on how effective (or lack there of) Boeser was at even strength last season. Suffice it to say that it wasn’t bad, it was horrible. He obviously had off ice circumstances that made last season difficult for him.

Garland on the other hand is outstanding at even strength. But as the poster above said, regardless of how good these two player are or not, Miller still outscored the two of them combined.

 

[McDavid is too whiny]

...I'm sorry, are you honestly trying to claim that Brock Boeser and Conor Garland are substandard linemates?

Well I mean they’re no David Výbornýs.

 

[oceanchild]

You’re the same poster who thinks VAN should trade him or at least tried to justify them trading him because he doesn’t fit the ‘age of the core’ or some bullshit while simultaneously claiming he’s a Top-5 or so center.

You really don’t see how silly that is, do you?

And yet you seem to call everyone else crazy and stupid…

This is true, you can be both. He is the best asset Vancouver has to fix the weakness in the right side of the defence, while also being in his late 30’s with a core (identified core) in the mid to early 20’s and was also a player that had 99 points. No contradiction on that as all.

But there’s different levels of ‘good’ obviously and The poster I’m responding to is talking Top5-10C kind of good. You don’t trade that unless they want out or you think they fall off a cliff very quickly, no?

Or if you feel it’s your best asset that can get the best return and is not in the right age range for your core.. how is this difficult to comprehend?

 

[Ruthervin]

Canucks and Bruins:

To Boston: JT Miller + Tyler Myers
To Vancouver: Brandon Carlo + Charlie Coyle

Why the Bruins do this: With Bergeron and Krejki's days coming to a close (perhaps after this coming season?....even if DK and PB return for this coming season), they'll need a heir apparent. Enter JT Miller. My guess is that Dylan Larkin will also eventually sign with Boston in the Summer of 2023 but that's out of scope for this thread. So, Boston gets their top line Center that can also play Wing. They also get a solid 2nd pairing D in Myers, who unlike Carlo, doesn't have a history of concussions.


Why the Canucks do this: The Canucks get a shut down center in Coyle that can take on tough defensive match-ups which can free up Horvat and Petey for more offensive deployment. They also finally get their Top 4 calibre defensively responsible right sided D-man that can help stabilize an OEL or Hughes pairing.

 

[hawksrule]

Canucks and Bruins:

To Boston: JT Miller + Tyler Myers
To Vancouver: Brandon Carlo + Charlie Coyle

Why the Bruins do this: With Bergeron and Krejki's days coming to a close (perhaps after this coming season?....even if DK and PB return for this coming season), they'll need a heir apparent. Enter JT Miller. My guess is that Dylan Larkin will also eventually sign with Boston in the Summer of 2023 but that's out of scope for this thread. So, Boston gets their top line Center that can also play Wing. They also get a solid 2nd pairing D in Myers, who unlike Carlo, doesn't have a history of concussions.


Why the Canucks do this: The Canucks get a shut down center in Coyle that can take on tough defensive match-ups which can free up Horvat and Petey for more offensive deployment. They also finally get their Top 4 calibre defensively responsible right sided D-man that can help stabilize an OEL or Hughes pairing.

Ooof.