All Ottawa Senators Head Coach discussions

[JD1]

we'r not scoring because EK isn't tilting the ice. Throughout EK's slump the team's scoring was fine (I mean team goals that EK had no part in) .....add in a new goal a game that EK was part of and the scoring woes and some of the slump woes don't exist.

I think he came back, had some limitations but was doing ok. as he continued to play he got worse. that impacted the team in a very negative way with him on the ice 27 minutes a night. The past 4 or 5 games he looked better. I'd say from about his 10th to 25th game he was awful and probably shouldn't have been playing. Add in 12 to 15 new goals that EK created or partly created over that 18 game stretch and there is no scoring issue at all. And several of our forwards probably have 3 to 7 more points and their personal stats look better too

going a step further with that

last year we scored 1.71 goals a game that EK had no part of

This year, eliminating the 5 games he did not play, we are scoring 1.68 that he had no part of. Not much to chose from there.

EK is pacing at 65 points and that is after his hot start which I think was 17 points in 11 games. That means he has had 6 points in 18 games since. That's a 27 point pace. And that is where the offence went.

And primarily where the slump came from too

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

6 foot 7 dman
3 sons playing
2 much oduya

My fave is "5 never gets blamed" ...

 

[Cosmix]

This team has blamed and fired the coaches for far too long. It is time to hire a new GM and give him a 5 year contract and mandate to do whatever he wants, within the team budget, to create a playoff team. The previous GM and current GM, with their management teams, have failed. I am not saying Boucher is the major problem but he is certainly a part of it. Let the new GM determine which coaches he wants to hire as he will be held responsible for his hiring, drafts and trades.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This team has blamed and fired the coaches for far too long. It is time to hire a new GM and give him a 5 year contract and mandate to do whatever he wants, within the team budget, to create a playoff team. The previous GM and current GM, with their management teams, have failed. I am not saying Boucher is the major problem but he is certainly a part of it. Let the new GM determine which coaches he wants to hire as he will be held responsible for his hiring, drafts and trades.

Agreed but he also has to get Melnyk on board to dump or even buy out Phaneuf and Ryan contracts

 

[Cosmix]

Agreed but he also has to get Melnyk on board to dump or even buy out Phaneuf and Ryan contracts

Dump I hope before the trade deadline. The previous GM certainly screwed up this team with those signings.

 

[DaveMatthew]

This team has blamed and fired the coaches for far too long. It is time to hire a new GM and give him a 5 year contract and mandate to do whatever he wants, within the team budget, to create a playoff team. The previous GM and current GM, with their management teams, have failed. I am not saying Boucher is the major problem but he is certainly a part of it. Let the new GM determine which coaches he wants to hire as he will be held responsible for his hiring, drafts and trades.

For this to happen, new ownership needs to come in. Melnyk will never invest enough in the front office to make that a reality.

Step one would be hiring a President of Hockey Operations. This is where you need to spend to poach or hire someone who can revamp this entire organization (Aka the Brendan Shanahan role). Give him full control. Pie in the sky scenario? Make Steve Yzerman an offer he can't refuse. If he can't be bought, find someone who's respected, experienced and credible. You know who would have been perfect? Ray Shero. But we got Dorion instead.

Step two would be hiring a general manager with a winning pedigree. If you have a President in place, you can look at guys who've had a ton of success in an assistant GM role. Guys like Julien Brisebois, Paul Fenton, etc.

That's what you need to do.

You can't run a budget team with a budget front office and expect to win. If you want to win without spending to the cap, you need a world class hockey ops department.

 

[Langdon Alger]

For this to happen, new ownership needs to come in. Melnyk will never invest enough in the front office to make that a reality.

Step one would be hiring a President of Hockey Operations. This is where you need to spend to poach or hire someone who can revamp this entire organization (Aka the Brendan Shanahan role). Give him full control. Pie in the sky scenario? Make Steve Yzerman an offer he can't refuse. If he can't be bought, find someone who's respected, experienced and credible. You know who would have been perfect? Ray Shero. But we got Dorion instead.

Step two would be hiring a general manager with a winning pedigree. If you have a President in place, you can look at guys who've had a ton of success in an assistant GM role. Guys like Julien Brisebois, Paul Fenton, etc.

That's what you need to do.

You can't run a budget team with a budget front office and expect to win. If you want to win without spending to the cap, you need a world class hockey ops department.

Yerp

 

[Stylizer1]

This team lacks Paul Maclean's confidence. He knew how to talk to jocks until he didn't.

 

[topshelf15]

For this to happen, new ownership needs to come in. Melnyk will never invest enough in the front office to make that a reality.

Step one would be hiring a President of Hockey Operations. This is where you need to spend to poach or hire someone who can revamp this entire organization (Aka the Brendan Shanahan role). Give him full control. Pie in the sky scenario? Make Steve Yzerman an offer he can't refuse. If he can't be bought, find someone who's respected, experienced and credible. You know who would have been perfect? Ray Shero. But we got Dorion instead.

Step two would be hiring a general manager with a winning pedigree. If you have a President in place, you can look at guys who've had a ton of success in an assistant GM role. Guys like Julien Brisebois, Paul Fenton, etc.

That's what you need to do.

You can't run a budget team with a budget front office and expect to win. If you want to win without spending to the cap, you need a world class hockey ops department.

You actually need more than just to the cap...You need money to buy out under preforming contracts,you also need to be able to take on money in trades.Toronto can spend 6.5 mil on a coach,Montreal 5.1 ......This rob from Peter to pay Paul wont work...We cant play with nickels in a dollar league

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Dump I hope before the trade deadline. The previous GM certainly screwed up this team with those signings.

The "previous GM" did not sign Phaneuf to his current contract.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You actually need more than just to the cap...You need money to buy out under preforming contracts,you also need to be able to take on money in trades.Toronto can spend 6.5 mil on a coach,Montreal 5.1 ......This rob from Peter to pay Paul wont work...We cant play with nickels in a dollar league

You really can't compare the Montreal and Toronto Markets, to the Ottawa Market.

These two Markets have way more viewers/listeners and therefore these teams can command much higher rates for sponsorship and ads (radio television signage naming rights etc ). In the past, I've heard that the same tv ad played in the Ottawa market garners about a sixth of what the same ad brings in if played in the Toronto market ....... and let's not forget, the Leafs get many many more nationally broadcasted games, in prime time, in a season than Ottawa does.

To buy out contracts like Toronto does, the team needs the revenue to do this, and there is no equivalent revenue in Ottawa to do the same things big market teams do.

 

[topshelf15]

You really can't compare the Montreal and Toronto Markets, to the Ottawa Market.

These two Markets have way more viewers/listeners and therefore these teams can command much higher rates for sponsorship and ads (radio television signage naming rights etc ). In the past, I've heard that the same tv ad played in the Ottawa market garners about a sixth of what the same ad brings in if played in the Toronto market ....... and let's not forget, the Leafs get many many more nationally broadcasted games, in prime time, in a season than Ottawa does.

To buy out contracts like Toronto does, the team needs the revenue to do this, and there is no equivalent revenue in Ottawa to do the same things big market teams do.

I agree we cant spend like the big boy,s...But trying to compete with them shouldnt have us spending in the bottom 10 either.EM has done a terrible job at growing this market.

 

[SensFactor]

With an organization who has admittedly been stripped to the bare bones, one of the lowest paid coaches in the league, I assume one of the lowest paid GMs as well, who the hell are we going to replace these guys with?

This is as good as it gets folks.

Jacque Martin

 

[Stylizer1]

Jacque Martin

Might be too old now.

 

[JD1]

Agreed but he also has to get Melnyk on board to dump or even buy out Phaneuf and Ryan contracts

another 5 or 6 M in salary and dumping those contracts is not really an issue. Neither is worth their contract but both are quality NHLers

 

[krapsik]

Its nothing to discuss here. We need new, offence oriented, adaptive and progressive (NHL is league for youngsters) coach. End of story.
/Thread

 

[Micklebot]

we'r not scoring because EK isn't tilting the ice. Throughout EK's slump the team's scoring was fine (I mean team goals that EK had no part in) .....add in a new goal a game that EK was part of and the scoring woes and some of the slump woes don't exist.

I think he came back, had some limitations but was doing ok. as he continued to play he got worse. that impacted the team in a very negative way with him on the ice 27 minutes a night. The past 4 or 5 games he looked better. I'd say from about his 10th to 25th game he was awful and probably shouldn't have been playing. Add in 12 to 15 new goals that EK created or partly created over that 18 game stretch and there is no scoring issue at all. And several of our forwards probably have 3 to 7 more points and their personal stats look better too

At the end of the day, a system that relies on Karlsson tilting the ice to not be the lowest scoring team in the league is probably an issue.

Also, is Karlsson going 0 for all on him, or should he have been expected to at least get a few points here and there on the merits of the forwards contributing? It's too easy to blame him Karlsson's scoreless streak entirely on him, and the teams lack of success on his lack of production but even a crippled Karlsson has proven to be capable of adding some offense (2013-14, and 2017 playoffs), so his 0 for 18 or whatever it was imo was more than just him not producing.

I mean, Karlsson has a .84 GF/60 over the last 18 games, there are over 200 players that have higher gf/60 on the PK than that.

 

[JD1]

At the end of the day, a system that relies on Karlsson tilting the ice to not be the lowest scoring team in the league is probably an issue.

Also, is Karlsson going 0 for all on him, or should he have been expected to at least get a few points here and there on the merits of the forwards contributing? It's too easy to blame him Karlsson's scoreless streak entirely on him, and the teams lack of success on his lack of production but even a crippled Karlsson has proven to be capable of adding some offense (2013-14, and 2017 playoffs), so his 0 for 18 or whatever it was imo was more than just him not producing.

I mean, Karlsson has a .84 GF/60 over the last 18 games, there are over 200 players that have higher gf/60 on the PK than that.

meh.....advanced stats....I don't care much for most of them

go back to last May....you had Sens fans in a state if euphora over EK's play. Read the debates about the past 2 norris trophies. Pretty clear that the vast vast majority of Sens fans felt he was the biggest game changer in the game from the back end and for the most part those that disagreed with that did so because they thought he was the biggest game changer period.

So far this year he's not been close to his usual self and a lot of his game changing has been against us not for us. It's unfortunate but it's a fact.

He is a world class player that hit a 20 game stretch where he probably shouldn't have been playing and that was our season.

The "system" doesn't rely on him....that's simply who he is. Any "system" he plays in will rely on him to tilt the ice. Just like Pittsburgh relies on Crosby and Malkin. Chicago on Kane Toews and Keith. What EK needs is another world class H of F type player. I've said it before several times that cup winners have more than 1 H of F calibre players in their prime. We don't.

I don't need the advanced stats to understand hockey. Without looking up advanced stats I know from watching that the Sens have stunk the joint out relying on EK to be EK. Frankly I think we'd have done better and possibly quite a bit better and be a lot closer to the playoffs had we given him a 15 holiday. We'd have been better off not relying him.

 

[Micklebot]

meh.....advanced stats....I don't care much for most of them

go back to last May....you had Sens fans in a state if euphora over EK's play. Read the debates about the past 2 norris trophies. Pretty clear that the vast vast majority of Sens fans felt he was the biggest game changer in the game from the back end and for the most part those that disagreed with that did so because they thought he was the biggest game changer period.

So far this year he's not been close to his usual self and a lot of his game changing has been against us not for us. It's unfortunate but it's a fact.

He is a world class player that hit a 20 game stretch where he probably shouldn't have been playing and that was our season.

The "system" doesn't rely on him....that's simply who he is. Any "system" he plays in will rely on him to tilt the ice. Just like Pittsburgh relies on Crosby and Malkin. Chicago on Kane Toews and Keith. What EK needs is another world class H of F type player. I've said it before several times that cup winners have more than 1 H of F calibre players in their prime. We don't.

I don't need the advanced stats to understand hockey. Without looking up advanced stats I know from watching that the Sens have stunk the joint out relying on EK to be EK. Frankly I think we'd have done better and possibly quite a bit better and be a lot closer to the playoffs had we given him a 15 holiday. We'd have been better off not relying him.

It's not really advanced stats, we simply aren't scoring with him on the ice, that's all.

Yes, any team would do exponentially better with him on the ice when he's on, but the point is this is far more than just him not being on, at least imo. We've been the worst I've seen this team since the early nineties during this stretch, and the team surrounding him is much better than the teams of those days. The problem runs deeper than him, and his poor performance is 1 part on him, 1 part on something else (be it system, teammates giving up on the coach, ect, Idk).

 

[JD1]

It's not really advanced stats, we simply aren't scoring with him on the ice, that's all.

no were not and the problem is he plays close to half the game.

I posted the numbers on goals per game that don't involve Karlsson. They are the same. The goal scoring problem IS goals involving Karlsson. Now there's guys not scoring which is a problem .... you'd figure EK in 27 minutes a night would get the odd point here and there that he really has nothing to do with but that's not happening right now.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Erik is worn down, physically and emotionally. Dude has had two major operations on his feet in the past few years which also include incredibly long recovery time, he is a newlywed and a father-to-be, and he's in the middle of this ownership/contract mess. Plus he's The Man on his team and expected to be a top 3 guy in the league. That's a helluva lot to have on your shoulders all at once...for anyone.

 

[Byron Bitz]

At this point it's clear that Boucher cannot successfully coach this group of players. If they don't make changes soon it's because they have given up on the season.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Better to get the new coach in now so players like Chabot and Stone that will be part of the rebuild can start learning the new system, keeping Boucher around til the end of the season would be contributing to a toxic environment

 

[DJB]

Umm. Is there actually anyone who still believes Boucher doesnt have a big part of the failure so far? Because if not there might be something wrong with you lol

 

[Gil Gunderson]

At this point it's clear that Boucher cannot successfully coach this group of players. If they don't make changes soon it's because they have given up on the season.

I hope they have. Don't do anything (unless it's unloading bad contracts) until the offseason.