Player Discussion Alexander Ovechkin (Vol. 2)

[Coldplay619]

Federer just beat Nadal in a final.
LeBron beat Curry in the NBA finals.
Ronaldo won the Euros with Portugal.
Leonardo Dicaprio won best actor at the Oscars.

This is the year brehs

 

[Raikkonen]

Federer just beat Nadal in a final.
LeBron beat Curry in the NBA finals.
Ronaldo won the Euros with Portugal.
Leonardo Dicaprio won best actor at the Oscars.

This is the year brehs

Don't be a fool. Jumbo Joe is waiting longer..

 

[Coldplay619]

Don't be a fool. Jumbo Joe is waiting longer..

Forgot to add

Rosberg beating Hamilton
Manning beating Brady

This is the year brehs

 

[CoolSportsStuff]

Highlights. Washington Capitals - New Jersey Devils.
And a little BONUS at the end of the video.

 

[g00n]

another classic ovie moment

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2182711

nobody enjoys hockey more than this guy

 

[CoolSportsStuff]

Highlights. Washington Capitals - Carolina Hurricanes.
And a little BONUS at the end of the video.

 

[User9992]

Ovi just passed Gretzky in PP goals...

 

[BobRouse]

Ovie looking more active last few games and is getting on the board.

He is due for one of those 20 goals in 20 games type runs and seems to be in the middle of something like that.

 

[ovikovy817]

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Ovi just passed Gretzky in PP goals...

Pretty staggering that Gretzky only has 204.....

Ovy easily the greatest PP goal scorer of all time when it's all said and done. 300+ would be nice.

 

[Raikkonen]

Pretty staggering that Gretzky only has 204.....

Ovy easily the greatest PP goal scorer of all time when it's all said and done. 300+ would be nice.

Russian coaches have never found a way to make him work at his point. ****ing miracle.

 

[CoolSportsStuff]

Highlights. Washington Capitals - New York Islanders.
And a little BONUS at the end of the video.

 

[Chukcha]

Pretty staggering that Gretzky only has 204.....

it's pretty hard to score from 99's office

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Good point, I wonder how many were banked off the goalie and in?

 

[DominicT]

Is Alex Ovechkin the most prolific goal scorer in NHL history?

Hey guys, I come in peace.

I did a lot of math on this and came up with this

Maybe. Since the 1928-1929 season anyway.

Wayne Gretzky is known as the greatest goal scorer in NHL history simply by scoring the most career goals and having the single greatest goal scoring season. Mike Bossy is considered by many as the best pure goal scorer the NHL has ever seen. Some believe, had he remained healthy, Mario Lemieux could have broken at least some of Gretzky’s records.

And now there is plenty of conversation surrounding whether Ovechkin can catch Gretzky’s career mark. Many believe he can’t, but just as many believe he can catch Gordie Howe for second.

https://scoutingpost.com/2017/02/07/dominic-tiano-the-best-goal-scorer-in-nhl-history-is/

 

[Jags]

It's cool to see the issue from a different perspective, but the math is just as suspect as all the other arguments, for and against. In this case -- going by a player's percentage of goals scored by his team -- the outcome is affected by factors beyond that player's control, and obscured by factors that make the results erroneous...

* I'm assuming you're not accounting for games the player missed. A good number of guys on your final list lost a lot of games to injury. Not excluding the goals the team scored while he was out drives his percentage down, and the more games they missed, the worse it gets.

* Along the same lines, did the team's goal production drop while they were out, or in the season directly before or after their contributions? Those numbers would be very telling.

* What if a guy played for a team that scored a ton regardless? A number of those guys played for teams that were still offensive powerhouses without them. That can drive their percentage down dramatically even though it's completely independent of their performance. The same is true for guys that played for teams that struggled to score outside of their performance. That can drive their percentage up dramatically.

There are other points to be made here, too, but most become pretty obvious once you start asking these questions.

It's cool that you did this work, and it's certainly an interesting way to look at it. But the injury numbers would have to be factored in for this to be even remotely accurate, that would be an insane amount of data to parse through, and it wouldn't be worth doing because of the many other issues that make this a dodgy perspective to use when trying to answer this question.

 

[Midnight Judges]

So if a player creates a ton of assists, his percentage of team goals goes down. That seems like an odd way of looking at it. (this actually worked in favor of Ovechkin relative to Gretzky and Lemieux).

And that's why I think the better metric is league wide scoring, not a player's own team scoring.

Also, counting only the games they played doesn't accurately tell the story. Any season they played should be counted in its entirety. If a player is injured, then that is not a neutral event that should count as nothing. That is a negative event that should count for something. Durability is a virtue in professional sports. (this works against Ovechkin big time - it makes it look as if Stamkos's value to his team is close to Ovechkin's, but in real life it isn't).

 

[Calicaps]

Also, counting only the games they played doesn't accurately tell the story. Any season they played should be counted in its entirety. If a player is injured, then that is not a neutral event that should count as nothing. That is a negative event that should count for something. Durability is a virtue in professional sports. (this works against Ovechkin big time - it makes it look as if Stamkos's value to his team is close to Ovechkin's, but in real life it isn't).

THIS!!! I have felt this way for a long time.

Crosby is a perfect case in point. He's about 1.3 PPG for his career over his games played, which is ridiculously good. But that's not what he's contributed to his team because he's only played about 2/3-3/4 of their games over the course of his career. Does that mean he's not a generational talent or not very important to his team? Of course not, but it should be part of the metric.

 

[roccerfeller]

Ovie fans will enjoy this:

Laine on facing the Pens (& Sid) for the first time in his career:

https://www.nhl.com/jets/video/pregame--patrik-laine/t-277437442/c-49469803

the kid speaks his mind

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

That settles it, I'm a Laine fan.

 

[Acallabeth]

Was a Laine fan before it went mainstream!

 

[illpucks]

Future of Ovechkin in a 2nd round loss scenario

If Ovi and the boys lose in round 3 or 4 I think it'll be OK.

Ovechkin has sacrificed stats this year to get his shot at the cup and to step it up come playoffs.

But let's say it's another round 2 loss.

What happens?

I think there might be a few scenarios

- Back to Russia
He might be starting a family soon and pulling a Datsyuk might in the cards. All he wants is the SC and another 2nd round loss will likely cripple his motivation.
- Trade
His trade value is dropping with his age and production decline and maybe there will be a trade that involves him + Kuznetsov to another team
- Trotz Out
This is probable but I don't think this necessarily means that Ovi stays. Oates,Boudreau and Trotz all 2nd round or less.
- Nothing
This is possible but with his desire to win and if he's always stuck at 2nd round....I dunno. I think it's unlikely.

I just don't see him staying his usual self if this scenario were to happen. I think we will see him traded with Kuznetsov or he will go to Russia.

I hope that this scenario never happens and that he will hoist the cup come June.

 

[artilector]

If Ovi and the boys lose in round 3 or 4 I think it'll be OK.

Ovechkin has sacrificed stats this year to get his shot at the cup and to step it up come playoffs.

But let's say it's another round 2 loss.

What happens?

I think there might be a few scenarios

- Back to Russia
He might be starting a family soon and pulling a Datsyuk might in the cards. All he wants is the SC and another 2nd round loss will likely cripple his motivation.
- Trade
His trade value is dropping with his age and production decline and maybe there will be a trade that involves him + Kuznetsov to another team
- Trotz Out
This is probable but I don't think this necessarily means that Ovi stays. Oates,Boudreau and Trotz all 2nd round or less.
- Nothing
This is possible but with his desire to win and if he's always stuck at 2nd round....I dunno. I think it's unlikely.

I just don't see him staying his usual self if this scenario were to happen. I think we will see him traded with Kuznetsov or he will go to Russia.

I hope that this scenario never happens and that he will hoist the cup come June.

Why in the world would you trade Kuznetsov, and how is that related to what happens to Ovi?

Giving up on a legit top-6 center is a move of last resort -- I'm not sure there's a level of suckitude that Kuz could reach in these playoffs to make it reasonable for the Caps to trade him in the offseason.

 

[illpucks]

Why in the world would you trade Kuznetsov, and how is that related to what happens to Ovi?

Giving up on a legit top-6 center is a move of last resort -- I'm not sure there's a level of suckitude that Kuz could reach in these playoffs to make it reasonable for the Caps to trade him in the offseason.

That's Ovi's closest friend on the team, both Russians. I think Ovi if was traded he would want Kuzy to go with him. The guy that got him a ladder to scale his electric gate in the powerout.

A package of Ovi+Kuzy would be marketable also for the GM. The return would likely be massive.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

If Ovi and the boys lose in round 3 or 4 I think it'll be OK.

Ovechkin has sacrificed stats this year to get his shot at the cup and to step it up come playoffs.

But let's say it's another round 2 loss.

What happens?

I think there might be a few scenarios

- Back to Russia
He might be starting a family soon and pulling a Datsyuk might in the cards. All he wants is the SC and another 2nd round loss will likely cripple his motivation.
- Trade
His trade value is dropping with his age and production decline and maybe there will be a trade that involves him + Kuznetsov to another team
- Trotz Out
This is probable but I don't think this necessarily means that Ovi stays. Oates,Boudreau and Trotz all 2nd round or less.
- Nothing
This is possible but with his desire to win and if he's always stuck at 2nd round....I dunno. I think it's unlikely.

I just don't see him staying his usual self if this scenario were to happen. I think we will see him traded with Kuznetsov or he will go to Russia.

I hope that this scenario never happens and that he will hoist the cup come June.

If Ovi doesn't get it done, I'd pick Trotz over Ovi. Tired of the eternal coaching change, Trotz did everything he could to set him up for success. It's up to him to perform, no excuses.

My guess is that we'll lose in the 2nd round again, Ovechkin will finish his contracts with the Caps 5 years from now and he'll leave for another team to try to win or go to Russia.