Player Discussion Alex Galchenyuk: Time to loosen the restraints?

[417]

There's a difference between listening to all offers for all players and having a player consistently brought up as a guy the team is shopping.

yes...the difference being how it's framed in the media.

 

[417]

I'm just going by media reports and there have been many over time. I guess we'll have to disagree on the quality of Bergevin's negotiation skills.

I haven't opined on Bergevin's negotiation skills..

But i've been reading for 4 or 5 years that Bergevin is itching to pull the trigger on trading Galchenyuk for the first overpaid and over-the-hill veteran he could find his hands on, yet he's still here.

If teams call him about Galchenyuk, it doesn't necessarily mean he's shopping him because he's listening to offers...that's his job.

 

[OldCraig71]

you guys think Bergevin gonna say: yes I'm shopping this player ! What happen if he doesn't have a good offer and that he need to keep him ? I know you don't like him but come on..

In the case of Galchenyuk he doesn't really need to say much, the way they have used him speaks volumes to what they think of the kid. I mean they played Byron at center before him, not everything that is implied has to be spelled out.

 

[417]

If he loses the trade involving his first draft pick it could lose Molson's confidence. That's why he didn't just trade Subban for anyone. He got a guy he could argue in defence for. That's why after playing him as a winger all year I could see Domi being moved for him and Bergevin saying it's a hockey move to shake up the locker.

I think he's likelier more attached to his 1st ever draft pick than people assume...

Would he trade him? Obviously...I hope so, no reason why Galchenyuk should be an untouchable.

Will he trade him? for the right offer, i'm sure it's something he'll consider...as he should

 

[Vachon23]

In the case of Galchenyuk he doesn't really need to say much, the way they have used him speaks volumes to what they think of the kid. I mean they played Byron at center before him, not everything that is implied has to be spelled out.

I was talking about when he was talking about Subban and Sergachev

 

[Captain Mountain]

yes...the difference being how it's framed in the media.

Unless you have access to primary sourced information, you can't actually know what the difference between what people in the media say vs what actually happens behind the scenes.

 

[417]

Unless you have access to primary sourced information, you can't actually know what the difference between what people in the media say vs what actually happens behind the scenes.

I've got enough common sense to know that media can twist and turn things quite easily

 

[Captain Mountain]

I've got enough common sense to know that media can twist and turn things quite easily

And I have enough common sense to know that management can twist and turn things quite easily too. And have less incentive to not misrepresent things than insiders (whose need to have a good reputation among management in the NHL to keep getting access).

 

[417]

And I have enough common sense to know that management can twist and turn things quite easily too. And have less incentive to not misrepresent things than insiders (whose need to have a good reputation among management in the NHL to keep getting access).

Either way - I don't see why the Habs shouldn't shop/listen to any player on their roster.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Either way - I don't see why the Habs shouldn't shop/listen to any player on their roster.

I don't disagree, I just think the team has been... willing... to move Galchenyuk for a while, in ways that they haven't with a lot of other players.

 

[417]

I don't disagree, I just think the team has been... willing... to move Galchenyuk for a while, in ways that they haven't with a lot of other players.

It's supply & demand...

I would expect the demand for a player like Galchenyuk is higher than it is for Jacob De la Rose

 

[Captain Mountain]

It's supply & demand...

I would expect the demand for a player like Galchenyuk is higher than it is for Jacob De la Rose

We both know I'm not talking about DLR. You think the Habs are/were just as willing to move Gallagher, Pacioretty and Price as Galchenyuk? Or even guys like Lehkonen and Shaw?

 

[Draft]

A full year at one position, definite improvement at both ends as the year went on, creating chemistry with other top line players - I like what Galchenyuk built on this year and I think it was a really good move for his overall development as an NHL player. Next year will be big for him if we get a top line center.

 

[417]

We both know I'm not talking about DLR. You think the Habs are/were just as willing to move Gallagher, Pacioretty and Price as Galchenyuk? Or even guys like Lehkonen and Shaw?

I assume the interest they would of received would be greater for Galchenyuk than the others mentioned...

 

[Captain Mountain]

I assume the interest they would of received would be greater for Galchenyuk than the others mentioned...

Than Gallagher, Pacioretty or Price? Over the last few years? Really?

 

[417]

Than Gallagher, Pacioretty or Price? Over the last few years? Really?

Gallagher - prior to this year? no doubt...remember the hand injuries Gallagher suffered before this year
Price - goalie values are hard to pin down, so he shouldn't even be part of this excercise, hard to compare skaters & goalies
Pacioretty - perhaps not in years past...but if a team came calling to the Habs, i'd assume the interest in Pacioretty & Galchenyuk would be similar. The Habs even entertaining the idea of moving Pacioretty 2 or 3yrs ago was something no one thought of, so teams might of thought Galchenyuk was more attainable.

 

[sheed36]

I'm just going by media reports and there have been many over time. I guess we'll have to disagree on the quality of Bergevin's negotiation skills.

Yeah a rumor reported by I believe Lebrun or one of the other big name "insiders" said Galchenyuk was close to being traded to the Devils last summer but MB backed out last minute because he didn't feel the value coming back was enough. Hard to say if really true or not but it was out there.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Gallagher - prior to this year? no doubt...remember the hand injuries Gallagher suffered before this year
Price - goalie values are hard to pin down, so he shouldn't even be part of this excercise, hard to compare skaters & goalies
Pacioretty - perhaps not in years past...but if a team came calling to the Habs, i'd assume the interest in Pacioretty & Galchenyuk would be similar. The Habs even entertaining the idea of moving Pacioretty 2 or 3yrs ago was something no one thought of, so teams might of thought Galchenyuk was more attainable.

Gallagher was a Calder finalist, plays a type of game that coaches love and has outproduced Galchenyuk in 4 of their 6 NHL seasons and has outproduced him on a TOI -adjusted basis in 5 of 6. Add in Gallagher's underlying numbers, I'm not sure why only this season Gallagher would have comparable value.

Price is Price. Lets not pretend he's got or had the same value as the types of goalies usually traded.

And we're talking about who the Habs would be willing to move too, not only who we might think would be available. I was specifically talking about the Habs willingness to move somebody too.

 

[417]

Gallagher was a Calder finalist, plays a type of game that coaches love and has outproduced Galchenyuk in 4 of their 6 NHL seasons and has outproduced him on a TOI -adjusted basis in 5 of 6. Add in Gallagher's underlying numbers, I'm not sure why only this season Gallagher would have comparable value.

Again...not sure how many people thought Gallagher would have the type of season he had this year, last summer coming off back to back injury plagued season, he just came off a 10 goal season in 64 games.

Price is Price. Lets not pretend he's got or had the same value as the types of goalies usually traded.

Again, goalie values are directly tied to need...not many teams NEED a #1 goalie, we can't compare goalies to skaters.

And we're talking about who the Habs would be willing to move too, not only who we might think would be available. I was specifically talking about the Habs willingness to move somebody too.

I understand...and if the Habs were looking at making significant changes in terms of trades, it has to start with a player with some value...hence Alex Galchenyuk.

But either way, the point I was making is that there's nothing with shopping Galchenyuk (or anyone for that matter) and furthermore, 'shopping' a player can mean a lot of different things.

If I listed all the players Bergevin was on the verge of trading Galchenyuk for it would make your head spin...yet here he is, still on the team. Perhaps we should surmise that Bergevin is more attached to him than we think.

 

[Zorba]

A full year at one position, definite improvement at both ends as the year went on, creating chemistry with other top line players - I like what Galchenyuk built on this year and I think it was a really good move for his overall development as an NHL player. Next year will be big for him if we get a top line center.

People need to stop with development. It’s his 7th year next year. He’s not all of a sudden going to be a ppg player. It’s not happening
He’s a 50-60 pt guy and that terrific.
At this point In their careers Gallagher has played less games and has more goals than Galchenyuk
These 2 are about even. 50–60 pts at top end
We need to surround them with a top line C and a 2nd line centre as well then the Habs can be contenders
Galchenyuk is a good complementary players

 

[Theodore450]

Gallagher - prior to this year? no doubt...remember the hand injuries Gallagher suffered before this year
Price - goalie values are hard to pin down, so he shouldn't even be part of this excercise, hard to compare skaters & goalies
Pacioretty - perhaps not in years past...but if a team came calling to the Habs, i'd assume the interest in Pacioretty & Galchenyuk would be similar. The Habs even entertaining the idea of moving Pacioretty 2 or 3yrs ago was something no one thought of, so teams might of thought Galchenyuk was more attainable.

You saying you don’t remember the Rumoured Max Pac for Evander kane

 

[417]

You saying you don’t remember the Rumoured Max Pac for Evander kane

No i don't remember that...and regardless, it's pointless.

Rumors are rumors...they are not fact.

and i'd take any rumor that ties Evander Kane to the Habs very, very lightly.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Again...not sure how many people thought Gallagher would have the type of season he had this year, last summer coming off back to back injury plagued season, he just came off a 10 goal season in 64 games.

Well, we're talking about a pretty large time-frame here, including prior to the injuries. And while the 30 goals is not something many predicted, there have been plenty of signs that Gallagher was due for a breakout based on the effect he has on the game. I expected him, if healthy, to get around 25 goals. Many others did too. Especially if you do a deep dive into the sheer number of chances he creates.

Again, goalie values are directly tied to need...not many teams NEED a #1 goalie, we can't compare goalies to skaters.

Teams make trades to upgrade positions too. Pittsburgh didn't NEED Kessel. Calgary didn't NEED Hamonic, etc. Need is not the only reason trades are made.

I understand...and if the Habs were looking at making significant changes in terms of trades, it has to start with a player with some value...hence Alex Galchenyuk.

But either way, the point I was making is that there's nothing with shopping Galchenyuk (or anyone for that matter) and furthermore, 'shopping' a player can mean a lot of different things.

If I listed all the players Bergevin was on the verge of trading Galchenyuk for it would make your head spin...yet here he is, still on the team. Perhaps we should surmise that Bergevin is more attached to him than we think.

I'm not disagreeing that Galchenyuk has value. I'm saying that the organization is probably more willing to move him than a lot of other guys. That doesn't mean that they don't value him highly.

And if you have legitimate information, either share it or don't hint it.

 

[Theodore450]

No i don't remember that...and regardless, it's pointless.

Rumors are rumors...they are not fact.

and i'd take any rumor that ties Evander Kane to the Habs very, very lightly.

Very early in Bergevin tenure? Year 2 I think, it was definitely a legit rumour.

 

[417]

Well, we're talking about a pretty large time-frame here, including prior to the injuries. And while the 30 goals is not something many predicted, there have been plenty of signs that Gallagher was due for a breakout based on the effect he has on the game. I expected him, if healthy, to get around 25 goals. Many others did too. Especially if you do a deep dive into the sheer number of chances he creates.

I expected him to bounce back as well...don't think this was a unanimous thing though.

I bet even today if you asked 30 GM's, it would probably be split down the middle as to who has a higher value.

Teams make trades to upgrade positions too. Pittsburgh didn't NEED Kessel. Calgary didn't NEED Hamonic, etc. Need is not the only reason trades are made.

It's different for skaters than goalies...this isn't even something that debatable.

There's only ONE starting goalie per team and the majority of teams have their starter or heir apparent....

This influences value....no matter who that goalie is.

I'm not disagreeing that Galchenyuk has value. I'm saying that the organization is probably more willing to move him than a lot of other guys. That doesn't mean that they don't value him highly.

Well that essentially what I've been trying to say - so we're on the same page.

And if you have legitimate information, either share it or don't hint it.

I'm not sure why you posted that...I didn't hint at anything.