Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIII: The Return of Michael Jordan

[txpd]

Didn't people say the exact same thing about Grabovski?

I think grabovski is a dumpster dive. I have hopes but good centers get multi year contracts. he is a risky choice to depend on,

 

[Stewie G]

I think grabovski is a dumpster dive. I have hopes but good centers get multi year contracts. he is a risky choice to depend on,

Grabovski was 3rd on his team in scoring 2 years ago. That's not the kind of player I think of when I hear dumpster dive. Any guesses who Dallas' 3rd leading scorer was 2 years ago?

I imagine that the cap dropping like it did this offseason hurt Grabovski's chance for a multiyear deal. Not many teams could afford him this year due to the salary cap or internal cap. It's hard to get a multiyear deal when teams can't afford you for the first year.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I think his outspokenness for players and against owners during the lockout put him behind the eight ball, as it were. He probably would have been signed much sooner if he hadn't done that.

Could be. Similar thing with Ian White.

 

[Kegger]

I think grabovski is a dumpster dive. I have hopes but good centers get multi year contracts. he is a risky choice to depend on,

What determines dumpster dive? Just because some GM's were not ballsy enough to sign him, or wanted to risk dealing with his documented "issues". I have already said it and will repeat it, the signing is great and if there is one coach out there I would want working with Grabo and working him into our system...its Oates.

As much as some hated Alex Semin (me too) , we did lose out having 2nd line depth. Ribs was not the answer both from a "Moneyball" standpoint and his market demands. We took someone who has the potential to score more and he costs less, and he fits a major need for us which was 2nd line depth/scoring AND puck possession.

 

[Hivemind]

if hainsey were so good, he wouldn't be out of
a job

Woops.

 

[Devil Dancer]

I think grabovski is a dumpster dive. I have hopes but good centers get multi year contracts. he is a risky choice to depend on,

Not even close. Wolski is a dumpster dive. Grabo is a pretty good, established NHLer.

 

[Ajax1995]

Grabovski was 3rd on his team in scoring 2 years ago. That's not the kind of player I think of when I hear dumpster dive.

I am not of the opinion that Grabovski was in any way a dumpster dive but 3 seasons before the Caps picked up Sturm he was 2nd on his team in scoring with 56, he was hurt for much of the next season but then the season before the Caps picked him up he lead his team in goal scoring with 22. Sturm was most definitely a dumpster dive in most opinions I believe.

 

[Stewie G]

I am not of the opinion that Grabovski was in any way a dumpster dive but 3 seasons before the Caps picked up Sturm he was 2nd on his team in scoring with 56, he was hurt for much of the next season but then the season before the Caps picked him up he lead his team in goal scoring with 22. Sturm was most definitely a dumpster dive in most opinions I believe.

I don't really see the line you're drawing here. The situations don't seem all that comparable to me.

 

[txpd]

What determines dumpster dive? .

my view is that any player left without a chair and having to settle for a one year contract. is a risky take and a dumpster dive. sometimes these players are cheap like Hendricks was or wolski. sometimes they cost more.

good top 4 d don't sign one year $2m deals. if that's all they can do, then somewhere there is a problem.

grabovski was a left over. maybe that's a better way to describe him than a dumpster dive. same with hainsey.

note....I am saying grabovski is not a move on solid ground by McPhee. I have hopes that he's right on this account, but I am dubious. So, I am dubious on a McPhee move and everybody wants to disagree with me. Hoot

 

[HunterSThompson]

my view is that any player left without a chair and having to settle for a one year contract. is a risky take and a dumpster dive. sometimes these players are cheap like Hendricks was or wolski. sometimes they cost more.

good top 4 d don't sign one year $2m deals. if that's all they can do, then somewhere there is a problem.

grabovski was a left over. maybe that's a better way to describe him than a dumpster dive. same with hainsey.

note....I am saying grabovski is not a move on solid ground by McPhee. I have hopes that he's right on this account, but I am dubious. So, I am dubious on a McPhee move and everybody wants to disagree with me. Hoot

This also assumes that no long-term deals were offered and the player did not choose to hold out thinking he was worth more.

 

[Ajax1995]

I don't really see the line you're drawing here. The situations don't seem all that comparable to me.

I'm saying just because a guy was close to the top of his team's scoring list in the fairly recent past doesn't mean he wasn't a dumpster dive a year or two after said feat.

In the 206 combined NHL regular season and playoff games Sturm played immediately before joining the Caps he potted 62 goals and added 57 assists for 119 points.

In the 210 combined NHL regular season and playoff games Grabovski played immediately before joining the Caps he scored 61 goals and added 66 assists for 127 points.

Yet Grabovski is not a dumpster dive IMO while Sturm was despite very similar production over a previous few seasons before joining the Caps.

 

[Langway]

Yet Grabovski is not a dumpster dive IMO while Sturm was despite very similar production over a previous few seasons before joining the Caps.

Sturm was older and had two major ACL surgeries over that time span. That he was still able to produce for a while was impressive but the actual player being added at the time was on the way out of the league. He wasn't the same player that he was a few seasons prior while Grabovski potentially still can be. Grabovski could also end up playing his way out of the league--you never know--but it won't be due to sheer physical limitation.

 

[Ajax1995]

Sturm was older and had two major ACL surgeries over that time span. That he was still able to produce for a while was impressive but the actual player being added at the time was on the way out of the league. He wasn't the same player that he was a few seasons prior while Grabovski potentially still can be. Grabovski could also end up playing his way out of the league--you never know--but it won't be due to sheer physical limitation.

Again, I am not of the opinion that Grabovski is a dumpster dive and completely agree that Sturm was.

I am pointing out that an argument whether a guy is or isn't based pretty much on his fairly recent production, as Stewie was doing, is flawed.

 

[Calicaps]

Dumpster dive or no (I think no), he's joining the team Sunday, per NHL.com. But meanwhile...

Hockey's. Back. Tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ridley Simon]

you can believe that if you want. I tend to think that a player that is good enough to help most teams in the league, would have a job. without a job he has to be marginal.

I go back to scott hannan. he walked from the caps and has never had more than a 1 year $1m contract since. critics of McPhee strained to sell the idea that hannan was a multi million dollar/multi year contract player that had over played his hand. that after a good one year contract season he would again be a desirable player. it didn't work out. if a guy doesn't have a job at training camp, he's not a player.

as much as I am not an Erskine fan, if he had been ufa and walked he would have been signed in the first week.

Tex, you use the same rules/ examples to illustrate all of your points.

Any vet player that signs late is Scott Hannan, and will thusly fail.

Any GM that takes a risk should be worried it will be like a Holmgren, and will thusly fail.

Any poster that wants change should be afraid we will turn into the Flyers, and will thusly fail.

And on, and on.

Each situation that fits into that rule/example, will then have the same conclusion as said rule/example. That's just not how it works man.

 

[SpringfieldSkins]

I'll admit this. I'd rather have Grabovski at his price than Ribiero or Lacavalier at their price.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'll admit this. I'd rather have Grabovski at his price than Ribiero or Lacavalier at their price.

I think 4 outta 5 here would as well. Grabo might work out really well for this team. They need more scorers to augment the Erat's and Backstroms of the world. If Laich is healthy (massive IF), then the Caps are extremely deep at forward.

But we all know this about the offense. Defense is the concern. I will show some patience and see what Orlov has. If he's taken another step from his 2011-12 form, this team will have very few holes.

But if he hasn't, the defense will be very bottom heavy, and while that may "play" in the regular season, it will get exploited again in the playoffs.

 

[txpd]

This also assumes that no long-term deals were offered and the player did not choose to hold out thinking he was worth more.

this was the scott hannan argument that has since proved false. grabovski was a leftover. bad management of his ufa status be he and his agent or not nearly enough interest from the buyers in the market. either way, he was left on the market and ended up with a vokoun like one year deal.

maybe McPhee is a genious and knew that grabs was overplaying his and would end up as a bargain pickup. maybe McPhee is and idiot for not inking him to a 4 year deal rather than just one. probably not. he got just one because that's all anyone was willing to risk on the guy.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I like our roster overall. I am really warming up to the whole Grabovski thing now as I often do when said player I hate comes to my team.

Perhaps the advanced metrics guys are onto something? I did see Moneyball and totally don't want to be one of those old scouts at near the beggining of the film who refuse to believe in something new.

Our forwards are deep and solid. We have a couple blue chip prospects in the pipes in Wilson and Kuznetsov. Yeah we can improve at #2LD but its not a stretch that Orlov/Erskine could step up and do an decent job provided they are healthy.

The big thing is we have a slew of young players who I expect will get better including MJ, MP, Backstrom, Carlson, Alzner, Holtby, Neuvirth, and Orlov if he makes the team(not counting prospects who won't be on the team most likely)

Green and Ovechkin are still in their primes as is Brouwer, Laich, Ward and probably still Erat.

We're in good shape and if we get some guys to put together seasons they are capable of we can go far.

Careful Bob. You are not allowed to like Grabo. I am not allowed to like George.

Those are basic premises on this board. It will scare the children if those change at all!!!!

 

[Ridley Simon]

this was the scott hannan argument that has since proved false. grabovski was a leftover. bad management of his ufa status be he and his agent or not nearly enough interest from the buyers in the market. either way, he was left on the market and ended up with a vokoun like one year deal.

maybe McPhee is a genious and knew that grabs was overplaying his and would end up as a bargain pickup. maybe McPhee is and idiot for not inking him to a 4 year deal rather than just one. probably not. he got just one because that's all anyone was willing to risk on the guy.

Ok, so for those playing at home:

Hannan from 2011 = Grabovski from 2013???

Is that the basic premise you are proposing?

 

[txpd]

Tex, you use the same rules/ examples to illustrate all of your points.

Any vet player that signs late is Scott Hannan, and will thusly fail.

Any GM that takes a risk should be worried it will be like a Holmgren, and will thusly fail.

Any poster that wants change should be afraid we will turn into the Flyers, and will thusly fail.

And on, and on.

Each situation that fits into that rule/example, will then have the same conclusion as said rule/example. That's just not how it works man.

that's not an accurate portrayal at all.

most veteran players end up without a contract and taking the one year contract are in that position because they are a risk. Hendricks certainly worked out. I bring up hannan because he was used over and over again to beat McPhee. It played out McPhee was right.

Wanting change is one thing. Wanting wild movement is something I caution about. the flyers are a good example of why.

so far as on and on is concerned. I like to think I am reasonably consistant.
in this case I am being critical of McPhee which is a change. its not the on and on. while the hannan case is used to defense McPhee, the Grabs case is being used for the opposite reason.

I suppose that I could take your advice, however, and only post when there is a significant change in my point of view on an issue. while we are at it we can all take that to heart.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

What evidence other than his late signing date (which is completely explainable in light of his wedding and honeymoon) do you have that no one else wanted Grabo? Wasn't the latest before he signed that at least 3 teams were interested?

 

[Calicaps]

I've said it before and say again, gonna miss Matty Hendricks this year. Wish we could have unloaded Ward and paid Hendy. Might be high for a fourth liner, but it's better than $3 mil.

 

[DCRedhawk21]

I've said it before and say again, gonna miss Matty Hendricks this year. Wish we could have unloaded Ward and paid Hendy. Might be high for a fourth liner, but it's better than $3 mil.

Ehh... I'm a huge Hendricks fan but I don't think Hendricks at $1.85 for 4 more years is necessarily better than Ward at $3 for 2 more years. Maybe I just like Ward more than most here. I will definitely miss Hendrick though..

On a side note - I want to see Erat tried with Backstrom and Ovechkin on an extended basis. If GMGM is going to give (arguably) our second best prospect for a guy who's consistently put up points as a top line winger for years and makes $4.5 million, why not put him in those circumstances here and see what he can do? I don't buy the idea that MoJo is definitively a better fit than Erat on the line with 8 and 19.

10 - 19 - 8
90 - 84 - 20
21 - 85 - 16
25 - 83 - 42

Is something I would at least try. Just my $0.02.

 

[Calicaps]

Ehh... I'm a huge Hendricks fan but I don't think Hendricks at $1.85 for 4 more years is necessarily better than Ward at $3 for 2 more years. Maybe I just like Ward more than most here. I will definitely miss Hendrick though..

On a side note - I want to see Erat tried with Backstrom and Ovechkin on an extended basis. If GMGM is going to give (arguably) our second best prospect for a guy who's consistently put up points as a top line winger for years and makes $4.5 million, why not put him in those circumstances here and see what he can do? I don't buy the idea that MoJo is definitively a better fit than Erat on the line with 8 and 19.

10 - 19 - 8
90 - 84 - 20
21 - 85 - 16
25 - 83 - 42

Is something I would at least try. Just my $0.02.

Yeah, I've been watching old games and just reminded of the full effort that Hendy gives, but i know he's not a real difference maker.

I agree. I like that lineup and think Erat could put that line over the top.