Post-Game Talk: A win when you least expect it

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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This is exhibit A of what we're talking about today. Loaded with distortions.

Read carefully.

Drai "can sleepwalk to multiple point games" The notion here is to discredit Drai even when he has multiple point games and ironically in a game where Drai was the best player out there and a star in the game. A game the poster seemingly didn't even watch.

"Turns the puck over while watching others cover for him" is absolutely ridiculous. McDrai are as likely to cover back or fly back to defend as any player on this club. They are honest superstars.

"effort levels effect the rest of the teams game" jebus. How many games including playoff games do the Oilers win because of Drai? Apparently none according to some posters even as Drai was integral just last night.

"The majority of people" poster positing that the view that Drai is lazy, terrible, etc is a plurality. lol

Like another poster said some of you really deserve to see an Oilers team without Draisaitl. Easily half of the posts of the quoted poster are specifcally discrediting Drai. But worse the specific posts leave the impression of not even having watched the game. Its kind of sad here that we have to ask posters whether they even watched the game they are speaking of.


Check the post history. This poster was throwing shit on Drai even in his MVP season. Says everything you need to know. Because you know that Drai scored 55G's in his sleep, or apparently should.
It’s funny watching you jump through hoops to defend Draisaitl while you have no problem calling out McDavid.
 
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brentashton

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Jan 21, 2018
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One of the things I loved about Knoblauch during the 24-3 streak was the fact that he kept the lines and pairs the same. Very easy to build chemistry, guys can get out of funks when they know they aren't being demoted, everyone knows their role, etc. I hope he gets back to that, continuity in that area is massively underrated imo.
To a degree, yes continuity is good.

But NHL teams are excellent at eventually break things down and developing strategies to stop lines or pairings based on what they are seeing in film etc.. Then you start losing, like the Oilers did. Then you have to shake up lines to address that fact. I like some elements of continuity but I’m not beholden to standing pat just because.

You have to be ever changing (within reason) or your just standing still.
 
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Drivesaitl

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It’s funny watching you jump through hoops to defend Draisaitl while you have no problem calling out McDavid.
I resolutely support Mcdrai. I've made 100's of posts here saying how lucky we are to have these players.

I don't lose sight of that.

The post I'm replying to is just an attempt to discredit. Its its own distortion. The posters here that lean on Leon do it constantly. In every game. Sort of how I would be regarding Connor Brown, who I even credited multiple times last night for having a good game. I credited Skinner for having a good game.

The only two players I've been critical of this season are Skinner and Brown. But I will recognize those players efforts when they play well. Of course I do with McD. I just finished saying that McDrai are "honest superstars" in a post 10mins ago. We are again, very fortunate to have both of them. I've said that same thing here 100's of times.

I'll save readers the time. the two things I've critiqued McD on this season is his involvement in the Connor Brown acquisition and the Foegele extension. I don't think McD should be doing that, and I don't think his trackrecord in the same is great. The other is that McD has only 21 goals and is 52nd in NHL scoring. That concern is legitimate.

Wayne Gretzky never had any kind of season in prime where he was 52nd in the goal scoring race. Its very noteworthy.
 
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SupremeTeam16

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For me it’s not an effort thing with Draisaitl, my issues with him are his lack of discipline at bad times. He has a habit of taking bad penalties when he’s frustrated, he’s a leader and far too important of a player to be in the box for foolish penalties, he’s gotta be better in that department.

The other issue I have is how he can often be careless with the puck, turning it over on low percentage passing plays. Him and Mcdavid used to get away with these plays, whether it’s a spin around back hand pass, or threading a long distance pass through a bunch of traffic but defenders have adjusted. The thought was nobody would be stupid and careless enough to make those types of passes so defenders weren’t expecting it. Now Mcdavid and Draisaitl have done it so much teams know they’ll attempt those plays and they are ready for it and it’s an easy pick off and turn over. I’m not saying never do it but both him and McDavid need to pick their spots better.
 
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Shanahanigans

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Jun 16, 2011
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Fwiw, superstars like Kucherov, Ovechkin, Malkin, Mackinnon at times, Patrick Kane, Panarin, Tkachuk, and many others have had reputations of being "lazy" at times just like Draisaitl. Every time all these guys need to step up, they do, especially Drai- and that's really all that matters.
 

Drivesaitl

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The terse reply would be its funny seeing somebody with the poster name "Tobias Kahun" apparently an attempt to discredit Drais compatriots, also having seeming issues with Drai receiving any credit.

Oh wait, the poster in question was very negative about Drais play in the game just last night. The game in which Drai was a star, and the best player. Wonder if theres a theme. Imagine still having the Tobias Kahun name. Kind of odd. Tobias Reider+Dominic Kahun if it needs any spelling out.
 
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LTIR

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Fwiw, superstars like Kucherov, Ovechkin, Malkin, Mackinnon at times, Patrick Kane, Panarin, Tkachuk, and many others have had reputations of being "lazy" at times just like Draisaitl. Every time all these guys need to step up, they do, especially Drai- and that's really all that matters.
Well needed him to step up vs Flames.. so maybe not 'everytime'.
Just have to accept the good with the bad.. He gets points and is consistently inconsistent.
 
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Drivesaitl

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For me it’s not an effort thing with Draisaitl, my issues with him are his lack of discipline at bad times. He has a habit of taking bad penalties when he’s frustrated, he’s a leader and far too important of a player to be in the box for foolish penalties, he’s gotta be better in that department.

The other issue I have is how he can often be careless with the puck, turning it over on low percentage passing plays. Him and Mcdavid used to get away with these plays, whether it’s a spin around back hand pass, or threading a long distance pass through a bunch of traffic but defenders have adjusted. The thought was nobody would be stupid and careless enough to make those types of passes so defenders weren’t expecting it. Now Mcdavid and Draisaitl have done it so much teams know they’ll attempt those plays and they are ready for it and it’s an easy pick off and turn over. I’m not saying never do it but both him and McDavid need to pick their spots better.
First paragraph is completely reasonable as a criticism. I share the concern and have talked about that extensively as well. Without excusing it, and I'm not, Drai's fire burns a certain way and I think he gets his wires crossed at times. He shortcircuits. In that way he reminds a bit of Thomas Mueller, footballer, and sometimes really a dick on the field. It does come from the fire, it does have to be better directed, but it probably may never be.

The second paragraph has more to do with risk/reward. Both McDrai feint and no look passes because they are intentionally surprising opponents and refusing to telegraph their play. The claim to know more than the players do in terms of that risk/reward is errant, sorry, at best and both players, who are 1.2 in NHL production across the last 9 seasons know that.

That these are even considered "low percentage plays" discredits how many times said plays work to create goals or HDSC.

Messier was one of the best players I've seen in my life and he would throw more danger passes across ice than either McDrai do. Passes that often enough resulted in GA. But that too is the risk/reward, and it was still something Mess should do, generally speaking, because it worked many more times than didn't.

I do though want to highlight your final sentence which is bang on. So its a matter of when to, when not to, etc and according to game score and such. I respect that view. But on this team both Mcdrai know that a one goal lead often isn't good enough. If McDrai played on a club that could protect a one goal lead and had the D and G to do that we would be seeing less risk plays. Fair?
 

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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The funny thing is Drai was doing this pretty much every period, instances of it, and the GDT is really down on him again. All the posters that say something like the above we're getting more of the Drai moving feet and still weren't satisfied. I think "Trysaitl" was the most active adjective as if he wasn't. He was the best Oiler on the night. I say that because Booch gave up the line on the Kings goal allowing that play to happen.

In anycase Lazy Drai has 6G 10A 16pts in 11 games since the ASG. This is the Drai being referred to as "Terrible" from some poster not even watching the games, Indeed I wonder how much some of the comments are even from posters just in the habit of scapegoating Drai that they just do it. That Drai is a clear scapegoat here is indicated by the half a dozen posters that are down on him every game.

The other weird notion is that Drai plays zero% defense. I guess I have to ignore all the times DRai is making a strip in NZ (he leads the entire league in TKA) or backchecking and covering back or acting like a D at times working puck out from behind his own net, or being the one distributing our transition, or gaining ozone safely instead of mid ice turnover etc.

He does all those things when he's actually moving his feet and playing a north/south game. When he isn't moving his feet having him as the one distributing on transition is not a good thing.

However, it is a very fair comment to say that he was a defensive disaster in the previous three games. This game doesn't change that.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Fwiw, superstars like Kucherov, Ovechkin, Malkin, Mackinnon at times, Patrick Kane, Panarin, Tkachuk, and many others have had reputations of being "lazy" at times just like Draisaitl. Every time all these guys need to step up, they do, especially Drai- and that's really all that matters.
Yep.

btw Mr "step up"

Drai Playoffs: 31G 46A 77pts in 49 GP In the playoffs, when it counts, if it was ever in doubt. Name one other player in the league that produces like that for what Drai makes or even that make ANYTHING.

Well heres this:


Drai at top of the table in whole NHL in playoff Pts/GP since 2017. (selected because thats when his playoff career started) Drai with 1.57pts/G. Only McD is close.

Drai + McD are so ahead of playoff Pts/G its not even close. They step up.
 
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Frank the Tank

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Aug 15, 2005
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Did Ryan get banged up or is just a day off?

Load management? Maybe Ryan can't handle the 82-game grind anymore? He wouldn't be the first 35+ player to get practices off down the stretch. I've heard the broadcast team mention a few times that he's not always taking a regular shift; instead, he's being deployed primarily for important faceoffs and the PK.
 

Drivesaitl

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He does all those things when he's actually moving his feet and playing a north/south game. When he isn't moving his feet having him as the one distributing on transition is not a good thing.

However, it is a very fair comment to say that he was a defensive disaster in the previous three games. This game doesn't change that.
I think disaster is overstating things. I get that there can be concern. I don't read GDT as they are going on so I'm not as up on what the specific play concerns are. I know that distortion exists. For instance the Goal Against last night was On Booch. He's a D and he got beat clean on the line, didn't even touch the guy, didn't impede, he got blown up. Thats why the goal was scored. In going back to the thread 20 posts blaming Drai on that goal. Nobody even mentioned Booch completely losing his D responsibility on the line on the play. It was a relatively easy step up play for Booch to make. A play Ekholm can make 20X a game.

Anyway thats just one example. People spot Drai in a highlight replay in frame not racing back on the one play. But it wasn't his fault and Drai was surely expecting that the Kings were not going to be gaining zone there. Because he saw the line was contained. Normally this season Drai is back, he wasn't on this play. Did Drai make the wrong read? Sure. Did Drai expect Booch to hold line there? Sure.

This is within the realm of Paul Coffey telling defenders and the team to have confidence in making plays and in each other.
 
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AnInjuredJasonZucker

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Feb 21, 2014
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Draisaitl is a player that I don't think the majority of the posters in here have the ability to evaluate with any accuracy (myself included), because it doesn't "look" like he's trying. I've heard sports psychologists talk about how parents should avoid telling their kids to try harder in sports. Invariably, the kid will do something that has the appearance of effort, but doesn't provide results.

In Draisaitl, we have a player that doesn't have the appearance of effort, but the results are there against the best hockey players in the world - and they only get better during the playoffs. He's a high event player, and that is why he's 3rd in the league in giveaways. He'll make the tough play to create a high percentage opportunity. Those will often get picked off, and we'll see 30 posts about how terrible he is.

What we don't see? 30 posts about his takeaways, for which he's 2nd in the league. People are evaluating the player based primarily on negative critical incidents, which gives a biased view.

Can he improve in areas? Of course. But beware that improvements in some areas creates the risk of detracting what makes him one of the best players in the game.
 

Mav3rick07

Registered User
Jul 28, 2007
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I wonder if McDavid is passing more during the regular season to throw goalies off and then when the playoffs start he's gonna start shooting and scoring.

It sounds crazy but it could be possible.
 

oXo Cube

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I think disaster is overstating things. I get that there can be concern. I don't read GDT as they are going on so I'm not as up on what the specific play concerns are. I know that distortion exists. For instance the Goal Against last night was On Booch. He's a D and he got beat clean on the line, didn't even touch the guy, didn't impede, he got blown up. Thats why the goal was scored. In going back to the thread 20 posts blaming Drai on that goal. Nobody even mentioned Booch completely losing his D responsibility on the line on the play. It was a relatively easy step up play for Booch to make. A play Ekholm can make 20X a game.

As a big time Leon defender, I think it's fair to point out Drai made a bad read here too. He didn't recognize that he needed to adjust and pick up Laferiere going to the net because Hyman was caught up ice(and coasting hard for the rest of the audience reading this). But it wasn't laziness. Everyone should go watch the clip again and you can see clearly that Leon has the player who he thought was and generally is his man.

Hockey is a fast game. The lions share of the blame for that GA is on Ekholm and Bouchard for the poor clear and worse attempt at holding the line.
 

Drivesaitl

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As a big time Leon defender, I think it's fair to point out Drai made a bad read here too. He didn't recognize that he needed to adjust and pick up Laferiere going to the net because Hyman was caught up ice(and coasting hard for the rest of the audience reading this). But it wasn't laziness. Everyone should go watch the clip again and you can see clearly that Leon has the player who he thought was and generally is his man.

Hockey is a fast game. The lions share of the blame for that GA is on Ekholm and Bouchard for the poor clear and worse attempt at holding the line.
Fair but I think by the time Booch was blown up at the line it was too late to react. Real time is different than the slo mo replay or after the play replays we tend to look at. Still, we agree overall on this.

That said some replays are imperfect as well in only giving us some of the frame of play instead of all of the frame of play. Being at the game would probably be better view of it.
 
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Slats432

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This is exhibit A of what we're talking about today. Loaded with distortions.

Read carefully.

Drai "can sleepwalk to multiple point games" The notion here is to discredit Drai even when he has multiple point games and ironically in a game where Drai was the best player out there and a star in the game. A game the poster seemingly didn't even watch.

"Turns the puck over while watching others cover for him" is absolutely ridiculous. McDrai are as likely to cover back or fly back to defend as any player on this club. They are honest superstars.

"effort levels effect the rest of the teams game" jebus. How many games including playoff games do the Oilers win because of Drai? Apparently none according to some posters even as Drai was integral just last night.

"The majority of people" poster positing that the view that Drai is lazy, terrible, etc is a plurality. lol

Like another poster said some of you really deserve to see an Oilers team without Draisaitl. Easily half of the posts of the quoted poster are specifcally discrediting Drai. But worse the specific posts leave the impression of not even having watched the game. Its kind of sad here that we have to ask posters whether they even watched the game they are speaking of.


Check the post history. This poster was throwing shit on Drai even in his MVP season. Says everything you need to know. Because you know that Drai scored 55G's in his sleep, or apparently should.
Draisaitl seems like a big baby. And I don't care. The guys is an offensive dynamo, super skilled and a warrior in the playoffs. He isn't lazy per se. He is lazy changing and pouts from time to time. And I don't care. Because he is one of the top 5 players in the world. You can be what you want when you are as good as he is.
 

GhostfaceWu

Shi Shaw
Feb 11, 2015
9,970
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If you think the reason we haven't won a cup is Leon Draisaitl, I don't know what to tell you. Draisaitl has the third-highest PPG in playoff history, behind only two guys you may have heard of: Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux. But, based on your post, I'm guessing you'd take Connor Brown over Leon Draisaitl because eFfOrT iS mOrE iMpOrTaNt ThAn pOiNtS. Maybe Olympic diving is more your speed.
You taking that away from my post when I literally said how it effects the rest of the line ups give a shit and effort speaks volumes to your comprehension skills. Comparing Leon to Gretzky and Lemieux is a joke both of those players brought it from game 1 to the last game of the playoffs. Hey I'll mix up capital letters with lower case letters to show how mad I am followed by a third grade insult derp.
 

SupremeTeam16

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May 31, 2013
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First paragraph is completely reasonable as a criticism. I share the concern and have talked about that extensively as well. Without excusing it, and I'm not, Drai's fire burns a certain way and I think he gets his wires crossed at times. He shortcircuits. In that way he reminds a bit of Thomas Mueller, footballer, and sometimes really a dick on the field. It does come from the fire, it does have to be better directed, but it probably may never be.

The second paragraph has more to do with risk/reward. Both McDrai feint and no look passes because they are intentionally surprising opponents and refusing to telegraph their play. The claim to know more than the players do in terms of that risk/reward is errant, sorry, at best and both players, who are 1.2 in NHL production across the last 9 seasons know that.

That these are even considered "low percentage plays" discredits how many times said plays work to create goals or HDSC.

Messier was one of the best players I've seen in my life and he would throw more danger passes across ice than either McDrai do. Passes that often enough resulted in GA. But that too is the risk/reward, and it was still something Mess should do, generally speaking, because it worked many more times than didn't.

I do though want to highlight your final sentence which is bang on. So its a matter of when to, when not to, etc and according to game score and such. I respect that view. But on this team both Mcdrai know that a one goal lead often isn't good enough. If McDrai played on a club that could protect a one goal lead and had the D and G to do that we would be seeing less risk plays. Fair?
I think it’s a matter of re calibrating the risk/reward threshold to better reflect how teams have adjusted. Many times the reason we have to score 3 and 4 goals is because our top 6 is giving up just as much as they get. We’ve seen countless times where these lines get caught below the puck on a bad turnover and it’s in the back of our net while Connor and or Leon and their linemates are still in the neutral zone. Picking their spots better likely reduces chances against on bad turnovers and reduces the amount of risk they need to take. We just saw like a 25 game stretch or something like that where this team gave up 2 or less goals and during that time we did a much better job of taking care of the puck and playing more responsibly, especially in the top 6 they were really limiting mistakes, turnovers and were much more committed to their defensive positioning.

I don’t think comparisons to guys who played in the 80’s is really fair. Teams didn’t have the tools available to them to really analyze and breakdown teams and individuals tendencies the way they do now. In todays league if you’re doing something that can be isolated and exploited, teams catch on and game plan for it pretty quickly.

I certainly don’t want Connor and Leon completely abandoning what makes them so dynamic but I think we have enough history that shows they are far more impactful on the game when they limit risk and play more responsibly vs when they push for as much offensive chances as possible.
 

Duke74

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Jan 13, 2018
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You taking that away from my post when I literally said how it effects the rest of the line ups give a shit and effort speaks volumes to your comprehension skills. Comparing Leon to Gretzky and Lemieux is a joke both of those players brought it from game 1 to the last game of the playoffs. Hey I'll mix up capital letters with lower case letters to show how mad I am followed by a third grade insult derp.
The fact that your argument has resorted to personal attacks tells me all that I need to know. Speaking of comprehension skills, perhaps adding periods and commas will help other posters attempt to decipher some sort of meaning out of your rants.
 
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McFlyingV

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Feb 22, 2013
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How does playing a heavy game have anything to do with back checking and not giving a glancing look back when he turns the puck over while he watches his linemates try to cover for him? Kopitar plays the same type of "heavy game" and yet he's always one of the best defensive forwards year in and year out. This rhetoric of you'll realize you should have enjoyed bla blah blah may also be why we never win a cup. You seem to think he has a big effect on the game and yet completely ignore how his effort levels can effect the rest of the teams game I'd rather have a MacKinnon who gets in players faces for missed passes in practice than the way Leon approaches most games. The majority of people myself included like Leon and recognize how he can sleep walk to multiple point games as often as he does but there's a reason people don't have the same response to McDavid because even though he might do something defensively irresponsible he always gives a hundred percent.
How does fatigue and injuries affect a players ability to give 100% effort and not make mental mistakes? Oh I don't know that's a hard one to figure out.

The Kings have never rode Kopitar the way the Oilers ride Draisaitl and McDavid. McDavid's game is nothing like Draisaitl's so comparing their effort level is largely different, and I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone who has the same freakish conditioning levels that McDavid has.

Give me a break on the "this is why they might not win a cup". Draisaitl has showed up in every playoffs he's played in and its laughable that people get on him for some off games in the regular season.
 

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