A lot of interest in Tatar

[WingsMJN2965]

Realistically this dummy will do as he always does... Nothing.

 

[Leadzedder]

Realistically this dummy will do as he always does... Nothing.

Like last trade deadline.

Who’s the dummy?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Like last trade deadline.

Who’s the dummy?

The only trade worth a mention was Smith. We're not talking about trading garbage for garbage. We're talking about moving players who are of value to a team that can compete who have no real value to us.

Detroit's overloaded on middle 6 wingers and have no real reason to keep around both Nyquist and Tatar. If you can get a 1st out of one of them you'd be stupid not to do it, but this idiot wont.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Like last trade deadline.

Who’s the dummy?

Would be pretty disappinting if he only traded free agents with a second rd pick being the biggest return

We're going to need some more firsts and prospects sooner or later

 

[kliq]

The only trade worth a mention was Smith. We're not talking about trading garbage for garbage. We're talking about moving players who are of value to a team that can compete who have no real value to us.

Detroit's overloaded on middle 6 wingers and have no real reason to keep around both Nyquist and Tatar. If you can get a 1st out of one of them you'd be stupid not to do it, but this idiot wont.

Did you read somewhere that Holland turned down a 1st for either Tatar or Nyquist?

 

[Winger98]

The only trade worth a mention was Smith. We're not talking about trading garbage for garbage. We're talking about moving players who are of value to a team that can compete who have no real value to us.

Detroit's overloaded on middle 6 wingers and have no real reason to keep around both Nyquist and Tatar. If you can get a 1st out of one of them you'd be stupid not to do it, but this idiot wont.

And if no one is offering a 1st? The market seems to suck a bit this year, and we have Tatar/Nyquist under control for at least another year. Deal Green for whatever we can this year and, if need be, sell on Nyquist/Tatar next year. I don't think we could do worse than a 2nd in any given year.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Did you read somewhere that Holland turned down a 1st for either Tatar or Nyquist?

Did you read the word, "Won't" as "Didn't"?

 

[kliq]

Did you read the word, "Won't" as "Didn't"?

No, simply asking a question.

I assumed that someone getting so angry about something that hasn't even happened yet had to have been triggered from some type of rumor. I guess I overestimated you.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

No, simply asking a question.

I assumed that someone getting so angry about something that hasn't even happened yet had to have been triggered from some type of rumor. I guess I overestimated you.

I think you overestimated the standard for "So angry".

 

[kliq]

I think you overestimated the standard for "So angry".

lol, ok.

 

[HIFE]

The translation is that you can’t just decide that you want to sell and just immediately sell players. A team has to want to buy your player and it has to be a return that is actually better than what you’re giving up.

Yes, Holland could stand to be more proactive, but you know if he traded Tatar for a 2nd, people would ***** about the return.

I'd agree the return has to be fair. It's all perspective though. I have a lot more hope/excitement in a 2nd than Tommy Tats, but that's coming from a slightly disgruntled fan. I'm not sure where people are coming from demanding a 1st round pick.

Holland said (regarding the Mrazek trade) his concern isn't '17-18, but '19-20. That the team as of now isn't good enough. But isn't he just giving lip service to the strategy of amassing "futures" while intending to miraculously sneak into the playoffs next season?

Just my opinion but I'm asking for some kind of statement, some emotion. Don't need to burn things to the ground but come on, by the Red Wings standards the results and the product on ice is unacceptable. I'm not content to watch this exact tire fire again next season.

 

[kliq]

I'd agree the return has to be fair. It's all perspective though. I have a lot more hope/excitement in an early 2nd than Tommy Tats, but that's coming from a slightly disgruntled fan. I'm not sure where people are coming from demanding a 1st round pick.

Holland said (regarding the Mrazek trade) his concern isn't '17-18, but '19-20. That the team as of now isn't good enough. But isn't he just giving lip service to the strategy of amassing "futures" while intending to miraculously sneak into the playoffs next season?

Just my opinion but I'm asking for some kind of statement, some emotion. Don't need to burn things to the ground but come on, by the Red Wings standards the results and the product on ice is unacceptable. I'm not content to watch this exact tire fire again next season.

The problem is most teams offering a second round pick are likely picking at the end of the 2nd round unless they have someone else's pick.

 

[HIFE]

The problem is most teams offering a second round pick are likely picking at the end of the 2nd round unless they have someone else's pick.

Thank you, wasn't thinking straight on that.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

The problem is that people had expectations: With Ken Holland, I have no expectations.

 

[avssuc]

A quote from Holland earlier this week:

"So how open am I for business? I'm open for business... I think... over the next year or two... hopefully we'll continue to make moves that will impact this team down the road. Am I open to discussion? Yeah... I'm open to talking about lots of things, the reality is most of it doesn't happen, but over the next year or two... we need to acquire more futures and we need those futures to get better. "

Translation: Don't expect a roster player to be traded.

As usual Holland talks out both sides of his mouth. Says we NEED futures but a sensible guess is that he isn't willing to unload more than an UFA or scraps like Jurco, Ott, Smith, or Mrazek. Then the media can report Detroit is hoarding draft picks. In his presser he went on to say the same thing as last spring, "lots" of kids will be working their way from GR in the next year or two. Sure...

I think he's afraid to move one of his signed players because the return will prove how foolish the majority of his deals are. Again I believe there's no pressure to shake up the team or make a statement. Management can putt along in low gear without any repercussions.

This.

There's really no argument to the contrary. Some might say that Holland wasn't able to get value in the proposed deals, but with some of the returns happening this year, that just implies that Holland can't negotiate... or the players on this team are far worse than any of us want to let on.

 

[RedWingsfan55]

This.

There's really no argument to the contrary. Some might say that Holland wasn't able to get value in the proposed deals, but with some of the returns happening this year, that just implies that Holland can't negotiate... or the players on this team are far worse than any of us want to let on.

You hit it on the head. Most fans overvalue players on this team. Look at the mrazek thread for a few crazies.

 

[Leadzedder]

The only trade worth a mention was Smith. We're not talking about trading garbage for garbage. We're talking about moving players who are of value to a team that can compete who have no real value to us.

Detroit's overloaded on middle 6 wingers and have no real reason to keep around both Nyquist and Tatar. If you can get a 1st out of one of them you'd be stupid not to do it, but this idiot wont.

In reply to your “this dummy does nothing”

Traded since last deadline.

Jurco
Smith
Ott
Vanek
Sheahan
Sproul
Mrazek

 

[WingsMJN2965]

In reply to your “this dummy does nothing”

Traded since last deadline.

Jurco
Smith
Ott
Vanek
Sheahan
Sproul
Mrazek

The only trade worth a mention was Smith. We're not talking about trading garbage for garbage. We're talking about moving players who are of value to a team that can compete who have no real value to us.

Detroit's overloaded on middle 6 wingers and have no real reason to keep around both Nyquist and Tatar. If you can get a 1st out of one of them you'd be stupid not to do it, but this idiot wont.

Late.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

This.

There's really no argument to the contrary. Some might say that Holland wasn't able to get value in the proposed deals, but with some of the returns happening this year, that just implies that Holland can't negotiate... or the players on this team are far worse than any of us want to let on.

No. It implies that Tatar and Nyquist are lesser players than Rick Nash. Which they are.

Vanek returned little because he personally had knocks against him. No matter how good you are at negotiating, you can’t wrest a huge return from a guy who was sold, returned, sold, returned, and you’re trying to sell him again. Hell. Getting two picks for Smith and potentially two picks for Mrazek (who Vegas did not seem to think was worth the effort to pick and trade) shows he’s a great negotiator

 

[kliq]

Late.

Excellent analysis, very detailed.

BTW, the return on Mrazek could end up being identical to the return on Smith.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Excellent analysis, very detailed.

BTW, the return on Mrazek could end up being identical to the return on Smith.

Could.

Highly unlikely... But could.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If the return on Nyquist or Tatar is pick 50 or worse and that’s it? I hold onto them no doubt. A mid-late 2nd means nothing to me for either of them.

It would have to be that 2nd and another pick/prospect. Or a first or 1st valued prospect.

The Wings aren’t desperate to move them. They shouldn’t operate as if they are desperate to trade them.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

No. It implies that Tatar and Nyquist are lesser players than Rick Nash. Which they are.

Statistically all three are putting up almost identical numbers this year, and Nash was putting up roughly the same numbers last year and the year before. Add in the fact that Tatar and Nyquist are much younger and have term on their contracts. Some teams may not want the term, other's might. Regardless, there isn't that much of a different in value.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Statistically all three are putting up almost identical numbers this year, and Nash was putting up roughly the same numbers last year and the year before. Add in the fact that Tatar and Nyquist are much younger and have term on their contracts. Some teams may not want the term, other's might. Regardless, there isn't that much of a different in value.

Yes there is. Rick Nash is a big body who is a 200ft player.

Even if his stats are similar, he’s got a far far better track record and teams can convince themselves that he just needs a Phil Kessel change of location to be a huge stud again.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Yes there is. Rick Nash is a big body who is a 200ft player.

Even if his stats are similar, he’s got a far far better track record and teams can convince themselves that he just needs a Phil Kessel change of location to be a huge stud again.

Fair enough regarding the 200 foot player part. I just don't see him becoming a huge stud again. He's been on a consistent decline for a few years now.