Value of: A goal-scoring winger to SJ
- Thread starter Juxtaposer
- Start date
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
Sorry, I just had to make all of that a bit more concise
My thoughts:
1. No on Girardi
2. Sharks hope to be contending for the cup. Can't move 4 roster players for any reason.
3. The 3 ELCs still don't do anything for me. There is absolutely no chance any of them see any NHL time this season, and none are really any better than what we already have in the AHL currently. The Barracuda are doing fine even with Meier and Labanc in the NHL. Even aftermoving assets for a scorer of Nash's ilk, the Sharks drafter/scouting, realistically, needs to graduatate only 2/3 players every 3 seasons. They've managed that well over the last several years and the way things are looking now, there's decent likelihood they can continue to do so without taking and prospects in this deal. We have contract slots open to take contracts back if needed to facilitate the deal, but let's not kid each other, there would be no expectation that they'd be adding any hockey value to the deal.
4. No on Girardi
5. I'm open to trading our first for a forward who will be an additional legit goal scoring threat in our top 6.
6. Girardi...no
I think we can get back to the core of focusing around a deal of Nash to SJ and D help, youth, and futures to NYR.
I have two options for you to ponder:
----
OPTION A
Dillon @ 3.27 x 4
Tierney @ .711 - RFA
Mueller
2017 1st
For
Nash @ 3.9 x 2
2017 5th
2018 4th
----
OPTION B
Dillon @ 3.27 x 4
Tierney @ .711 - RFA
Mueller
Bergman
2017 1st
For
Nash @ 3.9 x 2
2018 2nd (Ottawa's)
2018 3rd
----
Both deals are, near as makes no difference, cap neutral deals. In both deals Rangers get 3 prime seasons from Dillon that they can slot in 4/5 role, on either the left or right side, a young 3/4C with a bit of room to grow, a young former 1st round LHD with plus size, skating, tools, and 2way top 4 potential.
The 2nd deal tacks on Bergman (RHD also looking pretty close to NHL ready with plenty of room to grow) in exchange for upgrading the two picks going back to the Sharks.
Option B is accepted.
The 3 guys I suggested are a step plus above AHL fodder, but they are also nothing to write home about. No problem with simplifying this down.
Thought you wanted still more help, so I brought up Puempel and Pirri to meet you more than halfway, but in a revised scenario w/no Wingels, Boedker or Girardi, there is no need to try and balance with P and P.
I did not immediately see this specific package, nor notice the cap dif would be truly negligible.
I accept the deal as is, or would provide you with option to reacquire Tierney's RFA rights for a conditional 7th, your choice.
Dillon @ 3.27 x 4 [no retention]
Tierney @ .711 - RFA [no retention]
Mueller
Bergman
2017 1st
For
Nash @ 3.9 x 2 [Rangers retain half]
2018 2nd (Ottawa's)
2018 3rd
Congrats on getting the core of what I initiated over the finish line.
Am gonna wait on some SJ fan feedback before taking to Ranger board.
looking forward to hearing everybody's 2 cents.
Yeah, it was the best that could be done with a bad hand.
It was a given Girardi would have played only a few games against the weakest teams to give a breather, and would be bought out. I otherwise saw the $ same as you, but overlooked the bonus; however, that could have been somehow worked out.
jMoneyBrah has come up with the right combination.
No Girardi or Boekder
Nash for Dillon as quality cap dump and 2 prospects
also a throw in
then picks on both sides to balance.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
I'm not sure how much of the snag up is on the cap benefit of taking on Girardi's retained salary vs. Boedker's, it's that once we acquire Girardi (no matter the retention) we'd have to actually play him...
I, personally, could care less about the benefit in cap space, I just think that adding Girardi at the expense of Dillon (or any of our other defenseman really) makes us a worse team.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Option B is accepted.
The 3 guys I suggested are a step plus above AHL fodder, but they are also nothing to write home about. No problem with simplifying this down.
Thought you wanted still more help, so I brought up Puempel and Pirri to meet you more than halfway, but in a revised scenario w/no Wingels, Boedker or Girardi, there is no need to try and balance with P and P.
I did not immediately see this specific package, nor notice the cap dif would be truly negligible.
I accept the deal as is, or would provide you with option to reacquire Tierney's RFA rights for a conditional 7th, your choice.
Dillon @ 3.27 x 4 [no retention]
Tierney @ .711 - RFA [no retention]
Mueller
Bergman
2017 1st
For
Nash @ 3.9 x 2 [Rangers retain half]
2018 2nd (Ottawa's)
2018 3rd
Congrats on getting the core of what I initiated over the finish line.
Am gonna wait on some SJ fan feedback before taking to Ranger board.
looking forward to hearing everybody's 2 cents.
I am ok with this offer as well. Not having a pick till the 3rd round is going to suck this year but I figured that Doug Wilson would have traded that 1st round pick anyway for an upgrade at the TDL. I think Carpenter can hold down the fort as 4C for us to negate the loss of Tierney. The combination of Heed/Ryan can fill in for Dillon's loss and also provide depth for the playoffs.
Losing both Mueller and Dillon definitely hurts our depth at D but I think overall the cost is pretty fair. Also, trading away Wingels and losing Nieto to waivers has also impacted our depth at F.
But with a healthy roster, this would be a great lineup.
Nash-Jumbo-Pavs
Boedker-Couture-Labanc
Meier-Hertl-Donskoi
Karlsson-Carpenter-Ward
Goodrow,O'Regan
Vlasic-Braun
Martin-Burns
Schlemko-DeMelo
Heed,Ryan
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
It's kinda hilarious how often Sharks fans forget a good forward when they create rosters.
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Damn I knew I was missing someone. Ha ha. Our F depth looked weak ..
Yep. Because you have never made a mistake in your entire life.
jMoneyBrah
Registered User
Yeah, not having picks for three rounds is gonna hurt. At least in this scenario we'd fill in a 2nd and add a 3rd in the next draft.
Also I think Carpenter is capable of doing well on a 4th line with some combination of Ward/Meier/Leblanc/Karlsson. If he struggles the team can try O'Regan (whom is having quite a season for the Barracuda). Overall, barring a rash of injuries I think the team is well positioned depthwise at forward. All of O'Regan, Goldobin, Sorrenson, and Goodrow can all fill certain roles at least on a short term basis.
Really the risk is on D as, no matter which way you slice it the Third pairing is basically all new as Schlemko hasn't played much time, if any, with Demelo/Heed. On top of that the well would be kinda dry after Ryan.
I'd run the lines like:
Nash - Thornton - Pavelski
Marleau - Couture - Boedker
Labanc/Meier - Hertl - Donskoi
Karlsson - Carpenter - Ward
Haley
Martin - Burns
Vlasic - Braun
Schlemko - Heed/Demelo
Whichever of Meier/Labanc doesn't make the cut gets sent down.
thanks for reply and comments
would like ballpark head count esp from Shark fans, pls keep em coming.
Looks like this is actually NHL level seriously do-able!
now for final reality check...
Celly4Celebrini
pray
- Jul 10, 2010
- 5,698
- 596
Gilligans Island
Registered User
CrypTic
Registered User
- Oct 2, 2013
- 5,069
- 81
I don't hate it.
I'm not sold on spending a lot for an upgrade at wing bc I still think that our season hinges more on Couture turning it around and Hertl being awesome still than on getting a better winger. I'd like to wait a bit and see how Couture does with Marleau and Boedker and how Hertl/the team does if they put Hertl on the 3rd line. We haven't had a chance to see that yet.
But I don't love any of the pieces we're giving up, I like Nash, and this would probably get Hertl to center the 3rd line. If we're going all in to get a winger, this works for me. It's a fair price and I doubt we get a better upgrade than Nash (assuming someone like Wheeler does not fall in our lap, which I agree is extremely unlikely).
weastern bias
worst team in the league
This is something that can be worked around, there's potential here
That said, I doubt SJS want to trade a roster D and I don't know why NYR would trade Nash without getting any real scoring back while both teams are in the thick of the playoff race
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Relax. I just meant we have so much depth, it's easy to create a good roster while still forgetting a good player.
hohosaregood
Banned
- Sep 1, 2011
- 32,455
- 12,707
Damn I knew I was missing someone. Ha ha. Our F depth looked weak ..
Yep. Because you have never made a mistake in your entire life.
I think we all keep forgetting one forward any time anybody makes a lineup chart. I have forgotten Nieto, Donskoi, and Marleau at least once this year.
Vaasa
Registered User
Option B is accepted.
The 3 guys I suggested are a step plus above AHL fodder, but they are also nothing to write home about. No problem with simplifying this down.
Thought you wanted still more help, so I brought up Puempel and Pirri to meet you more than halfway, but in a revised scenario w/no Wingels, Boedker or Girardi, there is no need to try and balance with P and P.
I did not immediately see this specific package, nor notice the cap dif would be truly negligible.
I accept the deal as is, or would provide you with option to reacquire Tierney's RFA rights for a conditional 7th, your choice.
Dillon @ 3.27 x 4 [no retention]
Tierney @ .711 - RFA [no retention]
Mueller
Bergman
2017 1st
For
Nash @ 3.9 x 2 [Rangers retain half]
2018 2nd (Ottawa's)
2018 3rd
Congrats on getting the core of what I initiated over the finish line.
Am gonna wait on some SJ fan feedback before taking to Ranger board.
looking forward to hearing everybody's 2 cents.
It's not a bad offer, and I am having to seriously think about it. My main concern would be the depletion of defensive depth. Demelo is on LTIR and who know how he will play when comes back. Not to mention he doesn't exactly have boat-loads of NHL experience. Heed has essentially no NHL experience. So we go from having good depth on defense to having a what amounts to a rookie or near-rookie as our #6 and no experienced options beyond what is on the roster. And with the increased cap due to Nash and the need to replace Tierney with additional cap dollars, the Sharks wouldn't be able to afford to go out and get any defensive depth.
In the end, it seems a high-risk move that I would rather wait until the offseason to do. Trying to go 'all-in' on this season with this moves actually seems like it would decrease the Sharks chances of winning the Cup.
But then, I'm notoriously conservative as a Sharks fan so no doubt most of my fellow fans will disagree.
HEAD COUNT ROLL CALL
not counting myself, Shark fans basically weighing in..
jMoneyBrah is +1, and again,
I am going to treat that as strongly leaning yes, as it is specified the issue is not with the trade, but w/if teams want to make the deal. Reasonable premise Rangers need to move Nash to recover cap with enough F depth, and SJS needs F help now while thin there.
Both teams satisfy immediate needs with this deal
Waiting has consequences both good and bad, but if this is a good deal, then as the saying goes, 'he who hesitates is lost'.
Result is +7, -1
pending any adjustment to reconsider not value of the deal, but if, upon reflection it is now or never --- or as said, too much win now is not in long term interest
Thanks to all, pls keep vote totals coming, I will present to Rangers board on Monday
not counting myself, Shark fans basically weighing in..
jMoneyBrah is +1, and again,
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7.
I am going to treat that as strongly leaning yes, as it is specified the issue is not with the trade, but w/if teams want to make the deal. Reasonable premise Rangers need to move Nash to recover cap with enough F depth, and SJS needs F help now while thin there.
It's now or never, so unless you inform otherwise, you are a no.It's not a bad offer, and I am having to seriously think about it. My main concern would be the depletion of defensive depth. Demelo is on LTIR and who know how he will play when comes back. Not to mention he doesn't exactly have boat-loads of NHL experience. Heed has essentially no NHL experience. So we go from having good depth on defense to having a what amounts to a rookie or near-rookie as our #6 and no experienced options beyond what is on the roster. And with the increased cap due to Nash and the need to replace Tierney with additional cap dollars, the Sharks wouldn't be able to afford to go out and get any defensive depth.
In the end, it seems a high-risk move that I would rather wait until the offseason to do. Trying to go 'all-in' on this season with this moves actually seems like it would decrease the Sharks chances of winning the Cup.
But then, I'm notoriously conservative as a Sharks fan so no doubt most of my fellow fans will disagree.
Both teams satisfy immediate needs with this deal
Waiting has consequences both good and bad, but if this is a good deal, then as the saying goes, 'he who hesitates is lost'.
Result is +7, -1
pending any adjustment to reconsider not value of the deal, but if, upon reflection it is now or never --- or as said, too much win now is not in long term interest
Thanks to all, pls keep vote totals coming, I will present to Rangers board on Monday
Vaasa
Registered User
Then I am a "No". I think the Sharks need defensive depth more than they need Nash. But Doug Wilson has never listened to me in the past, why should he start now?
Gecklund
Registered User
Then I am a "No". I think the Sharks need defensive depth more than they need Nash. But Doug Wilson has never listened to me in the past, why should he start now?
I'm leaning no. I think Nash is a luxury and we should go for a lesser winger. I think we need a good winger that doesn't cost much (Vrbata, Cammy, etc.) and a #5-7 D
Gilligans Island
Registered User
This Nash deal wouldn't preclude us from trading for a 3rd pairing / depth dman not named Polak... We'd have plenty of cap space.
Gecklund
Registered User
I don't think Nash is the kind of player we need. Signed for way too long. He would take a spot from players like Meier, Labanc, and Goldobin
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