7 Members of the Core

[Stephen]

"Should be #1...can't be good #2" ummmm....

I just feel like Kadri is a capable 60 point 2nd line piece that a contender would love to have.

If he was actually that guy we'd automatically be a much better team.

 

[WilliamNylander]

• elite goaltender <<<< Carter Hart
• shutdown defenseman <<<< Jake Gardiner
• puck moving defenseman <<<< Morgan Rielly
• defensive center <<<< Nazem Kadri
• #1 centerman <<<< William Nylander
• #2 centerman <<<< Nazem Kadri
• power forward <<<< Patrick Laine

 

[Pucker77]

I think you need a solid number of players as your core but you dont need those specific ingredients that Pierre mentioned. A lot of the top teams have their #1 center as their best defensive center (Kopitar, Bergeron, Toews, etc) so that would lower it to 6 players but you need depth whether its a good 2-way center instead thats one thing but maybe its a solid winger instead.

 

[-DeMo-]

Regardless of who you count in Chicago's core, they don't match up to the formula suggested in the original post. They don't have elite goaltending, they don't have a "shutdown defenceman" in the traditional sense (i.e. big, bruising, maybe doesn't skate that well), and poor centre depth behind Toews.

There isn't a formula.

what does Hammer do???? don't understand why when people say "Shutdown Dmen" that automatically means big slow brute... it means a guy whose great at shutting the other team down and plays great defensively, but probably doesn't provide much offense. you don't have to be big and slow to do just that...

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I think there's clearly three pieces that are the most important:

- # 1 C
- # 1 D
- # 1 G


After you have that foundation, add good depth at every position and you are set.

 

[TLeafsFan]

what does Hammer do???? don't understand why when people say "Shutdown Dmen" that automatically means big slow brute... it means a guy whose great at shutting the other team down and plays great defensively, but probably doesn't provide much offense. you don't have to be big and slow to do just that...

Agreed. You just have to be an expert at stripping the other team of the puck, especially in your own zone.

 

[meefer]

As opposed to the OPs 7 core idea, I'll offer the idea that as a core I'd like to have at every position, 1 player that ranks in the top 10 in the league at that position. That's six positions and realistically, a very difficult do. Therefore, if I could get:
1) A top 10 C
2) A top 10 D
3) A top 10 G
4) A top 15 W
5) A top 30 D (preferably other side)
6) A top 30 W (preferably other side)
I would then feel we have the core to contend. It would be the support cast to this core that would make the difference. In this regard, I'm quite happy seeing the Leafs collect as many draft picks as they can. The support cast can come from anywhere, the more picks you have, the greater the chance you have of developing a solid support cast: quality players throughout the line-up. It's finding those top 'core' like players that is difficult. We have a potential top 10 D in Reilly, maybe (???) Nylander at C, perhaps Marner (???) will be a top 15 W (I doubt C) but these are still to be determined. JVR, if he stays, might be a top 30, but after that, who? We still have a long way to go and I hope that management continues to draft highly skilled players increasing the chance of gaining strong 'core' players.
FWIW, I define 'top' this or that by way of a players overall abilities, not by being a power forward, a true sniper, a shut down D, etc.

 

[ConnorTO]

skill/depth dun

skill is obviously important
but i think to survive in the nhl you also need players that give their soul and heart with every shift

people that want to win, and for that trait or perk
does not require skill

 

[Le Cobra]

The answer for all 7 is Uncle Leo.

 

[tooncesmeow]

So I was listening to TSN 1050 earlier this week and Pierre Mcguire was talking about the 7-player core you need in order to be a true contender. The make up of this core was:

- elite goaltender
- shutdown defence man
- puck moving defence man
- defensive center
- #1 centerman
- #2 centerman
- power forward

Which of the current leaf players and prospects do you think can fit into this 7-player core? Keep in mind all these players have to be top players in these positions.


I could start with:

Goalie: No one. Maybe Sparks/Bibeau. Too early to tell.
Shutdown Defensemen: No one.
Puck Moving Defence man: Rielly.
Defensive Center: Gauthier
#1 Center: Nylander
#2 Center: Kadri
Powerforward: JVR.

2011:
- Quick
- Kopitar
- Carter
- Doughty
- Mitchell
- Brown

2013:
- Quick
- Kopitar
- Carter
- Brown
- Doughty
- Regehr

2015:
-Quick
- Kopitar
- Carter
- Lucic
- Doughty
- Muzzin

Wonder where McGuire got that formula from?

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

what does Hammer do???? don't understand why when people say "Shutdown Dmen" that automatically means big slow brute... it means a guy whose great at shutting the other team down and plays great defensively, but probably doesn't provide much offense. you don't have to be big and slow to do just that...

My point was more about (not) following formulas... Pierre McGuire's prescription was one puck-moving defenceman and one shutdown defenceman - when contrasted with the PMD, it sounded like big, slow guy was the kind of "monster" he was talking about.

 

[jjjshab]

• elite goaltender <<<< Carter Hart
• shutdown defenseman <<<< Jake Gardiner
• puck moving defenseman <<<< Morgan Rielly
• defensive center <<<< Nazem Kadri
• #1 centerman <<<< William Nylander
• #2 centerman <<<< Nazem Kadri
• power forward <<<< Patrick Laine

not a big fan of Mitch?

 

[LV*]

not a big fan of Mitch?

Apparently wingers like kane arent important

 

[Territory]

You don't need all that specific crap.

You need high end players and a good goalie.

You don't need to pick up one of every type of player like its a scavenger hunt. That's just silly.

 

[67Cup]

I think there are roles which need to be filled for a Stanley Cup team, but they don't need to be filled in all the same way.

Good solid goaltending is necessary. Jonathan Quick and Cory Crawford may not be the second coming of Patrick Roy or Dom Hasek, or even as good as Lundqvist, but the goalie has to be solid and dependable with flashes of brilliance at key times. This is where the Leafs really fall short, IMO. I don't see that person on the team or in the pipeline. Getting this kind of goalie is also a bit of luck, I think.

You do need a Doughty or Keith level two way defenseman, somebody who would be an automatic choice for Team Canada or for one of the other top nations. This is where the Leafs are closest, I think. Morgan Rielly is well on his way to becoming that kind of player.

A Stanley Cup teams needs a number one center, whether he is best at offense or defense does not matter, but he has to be very good at one and and at least solid at the other.

You need at least one winger who can score even when the checking gets very, very tight and is very good on the power play.

Maybe some combination of Nylander, Marner and the upcoming #1 can fill these roles.

You need good depth of solid players who buy into a system. Well, it's happening with the Marlies at the AHL level and the Leaf prospect pool is getting much better.

And off the ice you need at top coach and effective management. Looking good there.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Chicago has proven you dont need 7 "core" players.

Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson.

Replace Sharp with Crawford and there you have it.

Disagree. People hate formulas here, but don't see this as wildly off the mark.

 

[A1LeafNation]

1) A top 10 C Nylander
2) A top 10 D Rielly
3) A top 10 G Reimer
4) A top 15 W Marner
5) A top 30 D Nielsen/Dermott
6) A top 30 C Kadri
7) A top 30 W Kapanen/Timashov

 

[A1LeafNation]

1) A top 10 C Nylander
2) A top 10 D Rielly
3) A top 10 G Reimer
4) A top 15 W Marner
5) A top 30 D Nielsen/Dermott
6) A top 30 C Kadri
7) A top 30 W Kapanen/Timashov

Chicago:
1) A top 10 C Toews
2) A top 10 D Keith
3) A top 10 G Crawford
4) A top 15 W Kane
5) A top 30 D Seabrook
6) A top 30 C Sharp
7) A top 30 W Hossa

Hopefully Leafs develop our guys into great players

 

[deletethis]

Other than the use of the word "elite" with goaltender that simply describes most NHL teams so it's not useful.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Kind of a silly discussion IMO. Hallf the guys we are talking about as the "core" of these cup winners were not anything resembling a "core" player until after they won the cup. Muzzin, Hjalmersson, Crawford and others were not the type of guys you would have pointed to and said "that's the foundation of a cup winner".

The core guys are the likes of Toews, Keith, Kane, Doughty, Kopitar and Carter. Honorable mentions go to the likes of Seabrook, Sharp, Richards, Niemi, etc.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

The 7 players who have been on all 3 cup winning teams for Chicago. Their main core, 4 forwards, only one being a center and 3 defenseman.
Sharp, Toews, Hossa, Kane, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Keith.

Now Sharp is gone and is replaced by Crawford.


2015 Stanley Cup Championship Lineup
Patrick Sharp - Jonathan Toews - Marian Hossa
Brandon Saad - Brad Richards - Patrick Kane
Kris Versteeg - Antonie Vermette - Teuvo Teräväinen
Andrew Desjardins - Marcus Krüger - Andrew Shaw

Duncan Keith - Niklas Hjalmarsson
Johnny Oduya - Brent Seabrook
Kimmo Timonen - Trevor Van Riemsdyk

Cory Crawford
(Scott Darling)

2013 Stanley Cup Championship Lineup
Bryan Bickell - Jonathan Toews - Patrick Kane
Patrick Sharp - Michal Handzus - Marián Hossa
Brandon Saad - Andrew Shaw - Viktor Stålberg
Marcus Krüger - Dave Bolland - Michael Frolík

Duncan Keith - Brent Seabrook
Johnny Oduya - Niklas Hjalmarsson
Nick Leddy - Michal Rozsíval

Cory Crawford
(Ray Emery)


2010 Stanley Cup Championship Lineup
Tomáš Kopecký - Jonathan Toews - Marián Hossa
Andrew Ladd - Patrick Sharp - Patrick Kane
Dustin Byfuglien - David Bolland - Kris Versteeg
Ben Eager - John Madden - Troy Brouwer

Duncan Keith - Brent Seabrook
Niklas Hjalmarsson - Brian Campbell
Jordan Hendry/Nick Boynton - Brent Sopel

Antti Niemi
(Cristobal Huet)

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Kind of a silly discussion IMO. Hallf the guys we are talking about as the "core" of these cup winners were not anything resembling a "core" player until after they won the cup. Muzzin, Hjalmersson, Crawford and others were not the type of guys you would have pointed to and said "that's the foundation of a cup winner".

The core guys are the likes of Toews, Keith, Kane, Doughty, Kopitar and Carter. Honorable mentions go to the likes of Seabrook, Sharp, Richards, Niemi, etc.

I know what you mean, but Hjalmarsson for example averaged 19:39 TOI/GP in the regular season, 4th on the team and 21:00 TOI/GP in the playoffs, 3rd on the team in 09/10. So he established him self as a core d-man already in his first full season. He had jumped between the AHL and the NHL for two seasons prior to their cup winning season. But he was very much a core player when they won the cup.

When Chicago won the cup in 12/13 Hjalmarsson played 20:54 TOI/GP in the regular season, 3rd on the team but 23:14 TOI/GP in the playoffs, 2nd on the team.

For their cup win in 14/15 Hjalmarsson managed 21:53 TOI/GP in the regular season, 3rd on the team and 26:02 TIO/GP in the playoffs, 3rd on the team.

So after his first season he become Chicago's 2nd/3rd most used D-man. Now to me that is a core player, even do he does not have the most fancy set of skills.

 

[Gallagbi]

If Hjalmarsson came here, you wouldn't say "we need to compliment this guy to win a cup". That seems to be his point and tough to refute.

Guys like Hjalmarsson can keep up and play a role on cup winners, but they aren't on the level of guys like Kopitar, Toews, etc..

It's a matter of where do you draw the line for a core player.

 

[Mess]

That's just one way to build a team. There is no set formula. Those pieces are good to have but I don't think they are all necessary to contend.

Most successful NHL Exec will tell you the blueprint to success is to believed to be based on the premise of "Building from the goalie out, with strong defense and strength down the middle"

So essentially that list provided by the OP is at the core of checking off those boxes.

Leafs have Rielly as their PMD and Kadri as that #2C and that is really all that is proven at this stage. There is hope for some prospects still cooking in the oven but time will tell how that unfolds.

The TSN panel the other day was discussing the Leafs being a true #1G, #1D and #1C away from being a good and competitive team and those are the 3 key core positions required/desired by most NHL teams.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

If Hjalmarsson came here, you wouldn't say "we need to compliment this guy to win a cup". That seems to be his point and tough to refute.

Guys like Hjalmarsson can keep up and play a role on cup winners, but they aren't on the level of guys like Kopitar, Toews, etc..

It's a matter of where do you draw the line for a core player.

If a skater is 2nd and 3rd in TOI/GP on 3 cup winning teams, I think it is safe that what ever that guy is doing it is important enough to consider him a core player.

And we speak of having a concept of having 7 core players to be able to win the cup, the topic of this thread. Now, you will not have a team with 7 players on Kopitars level so then you have to broaden the meaning of what a core player is. We are not talking about franchise level talent here.