GDT: 5pm Sharks @ Hawks 3/17/24 NBC sports Chicago (Happy Southside Irish parade you degenerates)

[Darkstar]

Please no Russians with that top-5 pick - even on the odd chance they come over it will be a few years down the road. I'd rather we pick a player that is more certain to be part of the rebuild in the next 2-3 years.

I don't believe he's locked in as long as Michkov, which is why I think he hasn't been getting any KHL time. We need forwards with potential 1st line talent and this kid has it.

 

[Pez68]

Again, on the topic of Russian players, there is WAY too much uncertainty to draft them top 5. Nobody knows what the f*** that unpredictable lunatic Putin is going to do when it comes to Russian players coming to the US to play hockey.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I don't trust Putin and I don't like drafting out of Russia right now, but Demidov has HUGE upside, so if Hawks scouting department speaks to him, he assures them he'll come over after his current deal, and they trust his word, I'd definitely be willing to take the gamble.

 

[Dr Salt]

Get Bedard over point per game and its a happy year

I don't believe he's locked in as long as Michkov, which is why I think he hasn't been getting any KHL time. We need forwards with potential 1st line talent and this kid has it.

He's the best player in the draft outside of Celibrini, if we're at 2 overall I want to lock in getting Bedard his (not like for like playstyle but) Drai/Rantanen/Nylander

 

[HeisenBaez]

Watch them still not win Celebrini. Not saying we will, but I don't think it'll be them.

I would LOL so hard if the Sharks does not get Celebrini.

I bet that empty netter from 98 felt good, considered that Shark moron try to use Connor as a sofa.

 

[shakes the clown]

Assuming Hawks don’t get first overall this time (so no Celebrini), who else would you guys want with a top-3 pick?

according to all the draft boards the next 4 or 5 rated guys are a D-men.

 

[BHawk21]

As long as Bedard gets his points Im fine with wins. After seeing them play against the Sharks I dont think we will out tank them. We just have to get lucky for Celebrini. If not I dont have huge difference between 2-5. Demidov Levshunov Eiserman Lindstrom.

 

[Chuck Testa]

I'm going to have to agree with Pez... If the Hawks remain at 2nd, I think that is wayyyyy too early to gamble on Demidov.

Current political climate aside, isn't the league he's playing in a Russian B league?

 

[Larmer83]

according to all the draft boards the next 4 or 5 rated guys are a D-men.

No.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

I don't believe he's locked in as long as Michkov, which is why I think he hasn't been getting any KHL time. We need forwards with potential 1st line talent and this kid has it.

Kantserov was playing 4th line wing for most of the season so basically he was getting the standard treatment for 18 year old players in the veteran laden KHL. But - since the playoffs started he is playing right wing on the 2nd line with Minnesota 2022 1st rounder Danila Yurov as his centerman. Their team advanced to the 2nd round and Kantserov has 2 goals and 3 assists in 7 games so far.

Yurov led the team in scoring in the regular season with 49 points in 62 games while Kantserov had only 15 points in 53 games - mainly because he was getting little minutes and playing with 4th liners. He's now playing a much more prominent role and producing in the playoffs.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I'm going to have to agree with Pez... If the Hawks remain at 2nd, I think that is wayyyyy too early to gamble on Demidov.

Current political climate aside, isn't the league he's playing in a Russian B league?

He's playing in that league because his Russian team is upset he won't sign a deal with more term because he's willing to come over or at least that's my understanding.

 

[Mrfenn92]

I would read the Demidov prospect thread. Caeser is good at breaking the Russian prospects down potential and contract wise.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Please no Russians with that top-5 pick - even on the odd chance they come over it will be a few years down the road. I'd rather we pick a player that is more certain to be part of the rebuild in the next 2-3 years.

Demidov is only signed for one more year, not sure why you'd say "odd" chance, all Russians come over eventually, some just take a bit of time and if they aren't getting great ice time, they may just leave. But all of the best Russian players are in the NHL, if Demidov lives up to his billing he is an NHL player and likely a very high-end one.

Disregarding him because Russian if the scouts like his game a lot would be a mistake.

Again, on the topic of Russian players, there is WAY too much uncertainty to draft them top 5. Nobody knows what the f*** that unpredictable lunatic Putin is going to do when it comes to Russian players coming to the US to play hockey.

The same thing as he's always done, nothing. The Capitals took a kid in 2022, he split time between the KHL/VHL/MHL in 2022-23, then signed an ELC and he's already playing in games for Washington. Expect a similar story with Demidov.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Current political climate aside, isn't the league he's playing in a Russian B league?

It's a junior league, and while he's laughing his way through it and too good for it at the moment, he's doing exactly what you'd hope a player in that sort of spot should be doing.

His situation is not dissimilar to Michkov, who has been getting loaned out to one of the worst teams in the KHL. SKA is run by incompetence, they should win the Gagarin Cup two out of every three years or so with their advantages, but they don't.

 

[Darkstar]

Kantserov was playing 4th line wing for most of the season so basically he was getting the standard treatment for 18 year old players in the veteran laden KHL. But - since the playoffs started he is playing right wing on the 2nd line with Minnesota 2022 1st rounder Danila Yurov as his centerman. Their team advanced to the 2nd round and Kantserov has 2 goals and 3 assists in 7 games so far.

Yurov led the team in scoring in the regular season with 49 points in 62 games while Kantserov had only 15 points in 53 games - mainly because he was getting little minutes and playing with 4th liners. He's now playing a much more prominent role and producing in the playoffs.

I'm glad to see how Kantserov has progressed but we're talking Demidov. He's made a mockery of the MHL this season and should've been in the KHL.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Demidov is only signed for one more year, not sure why you'd say "odd" chance, all Russians come over eventually, some just take a bit of time and if they aren't getting great ice time, they may just leave. But all of the best Russian players are in the NHL, if Demidov lives up to his billing he is an NHL player and likely a very high-end one.

Disregarding him because Russian if the scouts like his game a lot would be a mistake.

I wouldn't disregard because he's Russian - I would have no problem selecting a Russian later in the 1st round or later rounds - my point is that I wouldn't take him or any other Russian with our top-5 pick because we're in a draft position where we have to mitigate risks and get a more certain pick with that top pick. Michkov was thought to be a better prospect - some said as good as Bedard or at worst the 2nd best prospect in the draft - and he lasted until the 7th pick when the Flyers took him BECAUSE of the "Russian factor".

The Hawks rebuild needs this pick to hit and risking it on the chance he may not come over or even if he does it won't be for a long while - it not the best move for the rebuild to be successful.

By the way - remember Artur Kayomov - the Hawks 2nd round pick in 2016 - still waiting for him to come over. Remember a few years back (before the Ukraine situation) when his agent said he wanted to come play for the Hawks and then he resigned with his KHL team .... hmm, I wonder if Kayomov's agent used the threat of coming to the Hawks as leverage to get a better deal with his KHL team?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I wouldn't disregard because he's Russian - I would have no problem selecting a Russian later in the 1st round or later rounds - my point is that I wouldn't take him or any other Russian with our top-5 pick because we're in a draft position where we have to mitigate risks and get a more certain pick with that top pick. Michkov was thought to be a better prospect - some said as good as Bedard or at worst the 2nd best prospect in the draft - and he lasted until the 7th pick when the Flyers took him BECAUSE of the "Russian factor".

The Hawks rebuild needs this pick to hit and risking it on the chance he may not come over or even if he does it won't be for a long while - it not the best move for the rebuild to be successful.

I agree with you in theory but the idea isn't to be good it's to be Stanley Cup contender great. I haven't seen any Russian junior league hockey this year so I don't have an opinion on the kid but if the scouts think he's the goods you take him.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

I agree with you in theory but the idea isn't to be good it's to be Stanley Cup contender great. I haven't seen any Russian junior league hockey this year so I don't have an opinion on the kid but if the scouts think he's the goods you take him.

So let's play a hypothetical - let's say the scouts who have seen Demidov play rate him (on a scale of 1-10) to be an 8.5-9.0 player. The scouts who have seen Lindstrom play rate Lindstrom at 8.0-8.5 - so Demidov is slightly better. The scouts meet with KD and KD asks the question - how certain is it that Demidov comes over and what is the timeline we should expect. The Russian scout guesses he is 75%-80% sure he will play for the Hawks but it may not be for 3-4-5 years. KD then asks the N.A. scout about Lindstrom and is told he's a N.A. player so there it's 100% sure he will play for the Hawks and his guess is he needs one more year in the CHL - maybe a 2nd year but 2 years max before he's ready to play for the Hawks.

Who would you take - the 8.5-9.0 player with less than a 100% chance to play for the Hawks 3 or 4 or 5 years down the line - or - the 8.0-8.5 player who will 100% be with the Hawks in 2 years or less?

 

[Pez68]

I don't trust Putin and I don't like drafting out of Russia right now, but Demidov has HUGE upside, so if Hawks scouting department speaks to him, he assures them he'll come over after his current deal, and they trust his word, I'd definitely be willing to take the gamble.

The problem is that it's not just up to him. If Putin says Russian players are not leaving to play in the US, good luck with that. He already said all Russian prospects have to stay 4-5 years.

 

[WarriorofTime]

So let's play a hypothetical - let's say the scouts who have seen Demidov play rate him (on a scale of 1-10) to be an 8.5-9.0 player. The scouts who have seen Lindstrom play rate Lindstrom at 8.0-8.5 - so Demidov is slightly better. The scouts meet with KD and KD asks the question - how certain is it that Demidov comes over and what is the timeline we should expect. The Russian scout guesses he is 75%-80% sure he will play for the Hawks but it may not be for 3-4-5 years. KD then asks the N.A. scout about Lindstrom and is told he's a N.A. player so there it's 100% sure he will play for the Hawks and his guess is he needs one more year in the CHL - maybe a 2nd year but 2 years max before he's ready to play for the Hawks.

Who would you take - the 8.5-9.0 player with less than a 100% chance to play for the Hawks 3 or 4 or 5 years down the line - or - the 8.0-8.5 player who will 100% be with the Hawks in 2 years or less?

Rarely turns out that way, imagine if it were the 2004 draft and holding a top 2 pick but passing on a couple of "risky Russians" at the top of the Draft for *rest of draft*

I'm not saying the hypothetical "take a guy just as good" thing doesn't make sense in theory, but I just think in reality, you have to trust the opinions of your scouts and if they think someone is better, take him and don't look back.

I also think the way your state the percentages is not right. Only a 75-80 % to maybe play in the NHL in 3, 4, 5 years seems to imply there's a 20-25 % chance he just flat out never comes to North America. Only very few numbers of fringe players (Artur Kayumov level) that would be battling it out to be a 13th forward type just flat out "never come". There's some risk that you'll have to wait a while but they all give it at least a go of it and if they're special enough talents, they're not going back.

 

[crazyhawk]

So let's play a hypothetical - let's say the scouts who have seen Demidov play rate him (on a scale of 1-10) to be an 8.5-9.0 player. The scouts who have seen Lindstrom play rate Lindstrom at 8.0-8.5 - so Demidov is slightly better. The scouts meet with KD and KD asks the question - how certain is it that Demidov comes over and what is the timeline we should expect. The Russian scout guesses he is 75%-80% sure he will play for the Hawks but it may not be for 3-4-5 years. KD then asks the N.A. scout about Lindstrom and is told he's a N.A. player so there it's 100% sure he will play for the Hawks and his guess is he needs one more year in the CHL - maybe a 2nd year but 2 years max before he's ready to play for the Hawks.

Who would you take - the 8.5-9.0 player with less than a 100% chance to play for the Hawks 3 or 4 or 5 years down the line - or - the 8.0-8.5 player who will 100% be with the Hawks in 2 years or less?

Or do you go for player like Catton ( smaller stature sure ) who has all the benefits of Lindstrom with the NA timeline but also a slightly higher ceiling and a ever running motor?
Or what if Demidov likes the way the Hawks are going and wants to play with Bedard and comes over in 3 and turns into a 1.4 ppg player?
Do you play it safe or roll the dice?
So many ifs! I'm glad I'm not a GM ...

 

[Hawkaholic]

The problem is that it's not just up to him. If Putin says Russian players are not leaving to play in the US, good luck with that. He already said all Russian prospects have to stay 4-5 years.

But that hasn't been the case.

 

[Pez68]

But that hasn't been the case.

And how would we know that, exactly? The Ukraine conflict is two years old. What Russian players have come over to play in NA since then?

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Rarely turns out that way, imagine if it were the 2004 draft and holding a top 2 pick but passing on a couple of "risky Russians" at the top of the Draft for *rest of draft*

I'm not saying the hypothetical "take a guy just as good" thing doesn't make sense in theory, but I just think in reality, you have to trust the opinions of your scouts and if they think someone is better, take him and don't look back.

I also think the way your state the percentages is not right. Only a 75-80 % to maybe play in the NHL in 3, 4, 5 years seems to imply there's a 20-25 % chance he just flat out never comes to North America. Only very few numbers of fringe players (Artur Kayumov level) that would be battling it out to be a 13th forward type just flat out "never come". There's some risk that you'll have to wait a while but they all give it at least a go of it and if they're special enough talents, they're not going back.

The 2004 draft has no correlation to the the 2024 draft other than players from Russia - and you know it. Whenever an argument is made using a false equivalency it shows you have a losing argument based on real facts.

As far as Kayumov - you support my argument that taking a Russian later in the draft if fine because at that point in the draft all the players are a bit of a long shot. Same as Kantserov last draft - a 2nd round pick I had to problem with taking there. But not a top-5 when there are other players available that don't come with the Russian factor risk.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

And how would we know that, exactly? The Ukraine conflict is two years old. What Russian players have come over to play in NA since then?

Mirosnichenko just turned 20 and he's on the Caps.