Post-Game Talk: 49 shots; 2 goals - Jets win

[ps241]

Postma's stats are incredible so far this year.

Best % in Corsi, Fenwick, Shots, and scoring chances for all of the Jets D-men.

The guy is flawed but he's probably one of the better 3rd pair dmen in the league.

Yes Paul is flawed but as I have been screaming he is still probably our 5th best D man. His value is that although he has flaws like every other bottom pairing Paul actually has some excellent attributes. For the life of me I don't know how he got trapped behind inferior talent like Pardy and Stuart. I mean they didn't play the guy for The better part of a calendar year. Postma would be a good bottom pairing partner for Morrissey.

 

[ps241]

Good to know. Even though I like Maurice, I find his approach to Postma baffling. I wonder if perhaps Postma doesn't conform to Maurice's game plan and instructions for "rookie" players. And that's why he doesn't see any ice time (except in emergencies ). Except what Postma does do, despite not being what Mo asks, just happens to be quite effective.

That is my big challenge. Paul is better on the ice than the other bottom pairing options so I suggest coach Paul wake the duck up. Being less flawed is actually a positive when we are discussing 5th 6th options for defense in this league. Postma can skate and move the puck very well and that keeps him from defending as often as some of the other options.

Also notice how Chiarot plays much better with Postma than he does with Stu or Pardy. Sadly Stu will be back soon and someone will need to be demoted that should be playing ahead of him.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Agreed ps241. Especially regarding the duck.

For all Maurice's virtues as a coach, I think he may occasionally be too rigid in his approach to how the game should be played.

While there are advantages to a rigid structure, it can also cause you to make poor decisions on players who fall outside the mould you envision for your team.

I hope Postma makes a strong enough case for himself that he becomes impossible to ignore, and forces Maurice to reconsider his D roster choices.

 

[ps241]

Agreed ps241. Especially regarding the duck.

For all Maurice's virtues as a coach, I think he may occasionally be too rigid in his approach to how the game should be played.

While there are advantages to a rigid structure, it can also cause you to make poor decisions on players who fall outside the mould you envision for your team.

I hope Postma makes a strong enough case for himself that he becomes impossible to ignore, and forces Maurice to reconsider his D roster choices.

Yea I guess that is it, Postma doesn't fit the mold but my concern is the mold needs some rejigging because some guys guys that do fit it aren't as good at hockey.

 

[White Out 403*]

I never listen to the post game call in show because it makes me so stupid I forget how to get home in my car and have to stop and take the bus.

That being said I actually caught that bit and couldn't believe what I was listening to? The upside is the guy calling in from Calgary right before to make a case to buy out Pavs absolutely nailed it and he was the first caller I have heard that made any sense on that show (although my sample size is micro).

Ya the dude from Calgary is a genius

 

[SensibleGuy]

I don't think many of us are "losing sleep" over this win. We all know we're likely to win a few games before all is said and done and this one is certainly one of the most winnable. The Canucks are an awful team. We can still win 2 more games and have a reasonable shot at finishing 29th or so and getting a top 3 pick. Anything more than 2 more wins and we're in trouble...

And yes, Kidd is a real idiot. He's been irrationally pumping Pav's tires for a couple months now. Maybe they are old buddies or something?? It's really something to hear because there's such a huge disconnect with reality there...

 

[ps241]

Ya the dude from Calgary is a genius

That is funny someone else pointed out to me that was you . I caught myself saying out loud "this guy can call in anytime" and I usually say this caller should be taken to the vet and put to sleep. Kid's stance was so odd especially with his Vernon example??

 

[LadyJet26]

I didn't even watch this game. Oh well

 

[ps241]

I didn't even watch this game. Oh well

As a former Canucks fan its best your eyes were shielded from this game.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

Even over Stafford?

Yes he makes my top 6 over Stafford. I was trying to point out he has to be better than Stafford and a couple other guys to get a sniff at the top 6.

I believe Petans future in the top 6 or top 9 of our lineup depends on Matty P. If we don't sign MP after next year I see him as a perfect MP replacement.

 

[cbcwpg]

No ****, why would you want a terrible goalie to be a potential star goalies mentor. Pavelec doesn't come across as the mentor type either.

Kind of makes sense since the Jets hired a terrible goalie to be the goalie coach. Why not have a terrible goalie to do some mentoring as well. If the idea is to show Helly what terrible goaltending looks like then sure... keep Pavs and Flaherty around.

 

[Duke749]

Ya the dude from Calgary is a genius

Why the sarcasm?

 

[tbcwpg]

Kind of makes sense since the Jets hired a terrible goalie to be the goalie coach. Why not have a terrible goalie to do some mentoring as well. If the idea is to show Helly what terrible goaltending looks like then sure... keep Pavs and Flaherty around.

The coaching ranks in professional sports are full of former players who weren't that great at the high level of the game - Hutch credits Flaherty with the recent turn around in his game.

I do not think Pavelec would be a good coach. However, he's going to be here anyway next year - might as well have him just start 25-30% of the games. Whether he passes on legitimate advice, or serves as a cautionary tale, Hellebuyck should learn SOMETHING.

 

[scelaton]

Postma's stats are incredible so far this year.

Best % in Corsi, Fenwick, Shots, and scoring chances for all of the Jets D-men.

The guy is flawed but he's probably one of the better 3rd pair dmen in the league.

He is much more effective and efficient in his own zone this year. I have been watching him closely and he is all business on the ice and on the bench. I think he is committed to securing a regular position and he deserves one, either with us or another team.

 

[ERYX]

Vancouver's goalie played really well.

We should have had more goals.

Yeah, we got out-goalied yet again tonight. Fortunately for us the rest of the Canucks team sucks, so we still won.

I'm not upset about this win. What I am concerned about is Pavelec getting the goose egg ... not that I begrudge Pavelec success, but the fact is that this shutout was a team shutout. From what I could tell listening to the game on 1290, Pavs was not really tested despite the number of shots on paper. So this is a classic game that makes Pavs look way better than he really is on the strength of good team play in front of him and garbage team play by the opposition (plus a sprinkling of luck in Grenier's stick exploding when he had Pavs cold for an otherwise almost certain goal).

Re: all the angry Petan back-and-forth, I was glad he did well but I agree with those who say he seems to be playing much better than earlier in the year and it's not all due to playing with better players.

Plus the thing I don't get about the comments about Petan being "given a chance" on the top line ... one of the knocks on Thorburn's good season last year was that he spent a fair bit of time on the third line so he was elevated by better linemates. Why the double standard? Thorburn sucks and if he plays well on a better line that's not to his credit, he was elevated by others. Petan is awesome and when he plays poorly it's because of bad linemates and when he plays well on the first line it has zero to do with being elevated by Scheifele and Wheeler?

Seems to me good players play well. Not saying Petan sucks, saying that he's improved, and not saying Thorbs is great but that I think he legitimately had a good season last year.

 

[pucka lucka]

Yeah, we got out-goalied yet again tonight. Fortunately for us the rest of the Canucks team sucks, so we still won.

I'm not upset about this win. What I am concerned about is Pavelec getting the goose egg ... not that I begrudge Pavelec success, but the fact is that this shutout was a team shutout. From what I could tell listening to the game on 1290, Pavs was not really tested despite the number of shots on paper. So this is a classic game that makes Pavs look way better than he really is on the strength of good team play in front of him and garbage team play by the opposition (plus a sprinkling of luck in Grenier's stick exploding when he had Pavs cold for an otherwise almost certain goal).

Re: all the angry Petan back-and-forth, I was glad he did well but I agree with those who say he seems to be playing much better than earlier in the year and it's not all due to playing with better players.

Plus the thing I don't get about the comments about Petan being "given a chance" on the top line ... one of the knocks on Thorburn's good season last year was that he spent a fair bit of time on the third line so he was elevated by better linemates. Why the double standard? Thorburn sucks and if he plays well on a better line that's not to his credit, he was elevated by others. Petan is awesome and when he plays poorly it's because of bad linemates and when he plays well on the first line it has zero to do with being elevated by Scheifele and Wheeler?

Seems to me good players play well. Not saying Petan sucks, saying that he's improved, and not saying Thorbs is great but that I think he legitimately had a good season last year.

You understand that Thorbs can be elevated while still dragging down his line mates?

 

[tbcwpg]

Yeah, we got out-goalied yet again tonight. Fortunately for us the rest of the Canucks team sucks, so we still won.

I'm not upset about this win. What I am concerned about is Pavelec getting the goose egg ... not that I begrudge Pavelec success, but the fact is that this shutout was a team shutout. From what I could tell listening to the game on 1290, Pavs was not really tested despite the number of shots on paper. So this is a classic game that makes Pavs look way better than he really is on the strength of good team play in front of him and garbage team play by the opposition (plus a sprinkling of luck in Grenier's stick exploding when he had Pavs cold for an otherwise almost certain goal).

Maurice said that it was tough to take anything away from this game. I don't think evaluation of Pavelec has changed because he shut out the pre-season Canucks, just like I don't think he's reading too much into Petan, Wheeler, Scheifele, or anyone. That said, saying Grenier had a certain goal on the breakaway - Pavelec stopped Gaunce on a breakaway in the 2nd when he was even colder.

This was an exhibition game, nothing more. You could've put these same rosters out in September.

I don't understand why people are so worried about Pavelec being seen as "back" that they make him a discussion point after a game where his impact was largely negligible.

 

[csk]

Yes Paul is flawed but as I have been screaming he is still probably our 5th best D man. His value is that although he has flaws like every other bottom pairing Paul actually has some excellent attributes. For the life of me I don't know how he got trapped behind inferior talent like Pardy and Stuart. I mean they didn't play the guy for The better part of a calendar year. Postma would be a good bottom pairing partner for Morrissey.

He's probably closer to Myers than to any of the bottom pairing guys we've dressed over the years

 

[ERYX]

You understand that Thorbs can be elevated while still dragging down his line mates?

I do understand that that can happen. Personally, I didn't see him dragging down the third line when he was on it last season -- and my comment about him was specific to his play last season when I thought he was decent.

I don't understand why people are so worried about Pavelec being seen as "back" that they make him a discussion point after a game where his impact was largely negligible.

Because of past experience. After a terrible career, Pavs was annointed the starter this season after a good stretch at the end of last season. It's like P.T.S.D. or something ... I am always going to be terrified that management/coaching who seem to think Pavs is good will use such games as confirmation of that opinion.

I admit that this is somewhat irrational. In fairness, I do think PoMo gave Hutchinson a fair shake and a chance to take the starting job from Pavs, and he let Helle run with the ball when he played better than Hutch.

On the other hand (third hand?), I would much rather see the Jets jettison Pavelec in the off season and go with a Helle/Hutch combo next year than any combo that involves Pavs. And I fear that Pavs would have to get totally ventilated down the stretch for the team to decide to keep Hutch or not keep Helle in the A to start next season.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I was at the game last night.
In the second period in our zone , Buff had one of the Sedin's lined up right in front of me along the boards & it was really cool as Buff let up totally when he recognized who it was.
I usually don't have great seats like that, so it would have been easily missed.
Thought that was cool gesture of respect..

 

[irunthepeg]

I was at the game last night.
In the second period in our zone , Buff had one of the Sedin's lined up right in front of me along the boards & it was really cool as Buff let up totally when he recognized who it was.
I usually don't have great seats like that, so it would have been easily missed.
Thought that was cool gesture of respect..

He let up on a hit on a Sedin? Would it have been a legal hit regardless? I don't get why we'd want him to let up...

 

[tbcwpg]

Because of past experience. After a terrible career, Pavs was annointed the starter this season after a good stretch at the end of last season. It's like P.T.S.D. or something ... I am always going to be terrified that management/coaching who seem to think Pavs is good will use such games as confirmation of that opinion.

I admit that this is somewhat irrational. In fairness, I do think PoMo gave Hutchinson a fair shake and a chance to take the starting job from Pavs, and he let Helle run with the ball when he played better than Hutch.

On the other hand (third hand?), I would much rather see the Jets jettison Pavelec in the off season and go with a Helle/Hutch combo next year than any combo that involves Pavs. And I fear that Pavs would have to get totally ventilated down the stretch for the team to decide to keep Hutch or not keep Helle in the A to start next season.

I understand that many fans are so fearful of Pavelec that they want him gone just to eliminate the possibility of him being back longer than the end of next season.

But let's be real here - he's not coming back after the end of next year. Maurice isn't dumb, and Chevy isn't dumb either. One game against an AHL team playing at an ECHL level isn't going to magically anoint Pavelec starter until he chooses to leave. There was no reason for them to not name him the starter in the off-season - he was under contract, Hutch had fallen off substantially after the All-Star break, and they were not likely to bring in Hellebuyck to start the season with the team. It's just empty words at a press conference.

If anything, this shutout has made Pavelec the starter again tomorrow - be thankful he shut out a team that hasn't scored a goal in 3 games so he's guaranteed a start next game. There was no chance the Jets lose to Van last night, the way Van is playing.

 

[Positive]

Super entertaining game!

 

[hurricanedave]

I do understand that that can happen. Personally, I didn't see him dragging down the third line when he was on it last season -- and my comment about him was specific to his play last season when I thought he was decent.



Because of past experience. After a terrible career, Pavs was annointed the starter this season after a good stretch at the end of last season. It's like P.T.S.D. or something ... I am always going to be terrified that management/coaching who seem to think Pavs is good will use such games as confirmation of that opinion.

I admit that this is somewhat irrational. In fairness, I do think PoMo gave Hutchinson a fair shake and a chance to take the starting job from Pavs, and he let Helle run with the ball when he played better than Hutch.

On the other hand (third hand?), I would much rather see the Jets jettison Pavelec in the off season and go with a Helle/Hutch combo next year than any combo that involves Pavs. And I fear that Pavs would have to get totally ventilated down the stretch for the team to decide to keep Hutch or not keep Helle in the A to start next season.

I view it like they're an addict that won't openly admit they have a problem but deep down they know it's true. Problem is they paid a lot for their stuff and they'd hate to see it go to waste.

As much as I'd like to see the Jets buyout Pavs this offseason I just don't see it as something Jets ownership/management is prepared to do.

 

[garret9]

I do understand that that can happen. Personally, I didn't see him dragging down the third line when he was on it last season -- and my comment about him was specific to his play last season when I thought he was decent.

Results wise: Thorbz did better on third line because his linemates were better, but the third line did worse overall with him than without.

He was dragging down the 3rd line, which is why they did worse... but his linemates were better so he was in the offensive zone more; therefore, had more opportunities to do things that impress people (shoot the puck, a goal scored and he's on the ice, etc) and less opportunities to do to things you would frown upon (giveaways in dzone, run around getting shots against, a goal against scored and he's on the ice, etc.).

This is the thing with usage: it doesn't just impact statistics, but also perception of player performance.

It seems as though Thorburn is playing better, but in reality he's just playing with better.