Prospect Info: 2023 NHL Draft

[kimzey59]

I think your assessment of Willander and Simashev "being second pairing at best," is woefully off the mark. I think that is the floor for those two. Are they surefire top pairing guys... no but I think they both have that potential. Hell most mocks have them as the #2 and #3 defenseman in this draft behind Reinbacher. Are you telling me that their is only one defenseman in this entire draft who is capable of top pairing minutes. I don't buy that. Moreover, my point still stands even if they only become second pairing guys in that we currently don't have anyone in our system that projects to that. We have several that we are hopeful can reach that but don't have anyone under 30 outside of the perpetually injured Perunovich (and even thats a stretch) that looks like they could step in and play in the top 4.

No, I am telling you there are ZERO top pairing guys in this draft.
There are 17 forwards in this draft that are better than the best D man.
The only reason any of them are being talked about in the top 10 is because it's been 40 years since the last time a Defenseman wasn't taken in the top 10. Not one of them are actually worthy of being picked that high.

I have no problem using 25 OR 29 for a D man.
But not #10. That pick goes to a forward because the forwards are that much better than the D this year.

And I think we can do a LOT better than Edstrom with the other pick. At least swing for the fences with somebody like Sale or Heidt. Don't settle for a "safe" 3rd liner in a draft like this. The forward talent is FAR too good for that kind of draft strategy.

If Army is stupid enough to waste our picks like that, he needs to go.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Updated list:

1 Bedard
2 Carlsson
3 Michkov
4 Fantilli
5 Smith
6 Leonard
7 Perreault
8 Dvorsky
9 Wood
10 Benson
11 Danielson
12 Ritchie
13 Simashev
14 Honzek
15 Reinbacher
16 Barlow
17 Willander
18 Sale
19 Stenberg
20 Yager
21 Sandin Pellikka
22 Moore
23 But
24 Edstrom
25 Musty
26 Lindstein
27 Gulyayev
28 Nadeau
29 Bonk
30 Perron
31 Heidt
32 Gauthier
33 Sawchyn
34 Molgaard
35 Lardis
36 Cristall
37 Strbak
38 Fowler
39 Morin
40 Wahlberg
41 Akey
42 Dragicevic
43 Unger Sorum
44 Pekarcik
45 Karpovich
46 Hrabel
47 Price
48 Molendyk
49 Ciernik
50 Hameenaho
51 Nelson
52 Brindley
53 Halttunen
54 Dvorak
55 Augustine
56 Dower Nilsson
57 Myatovic
58 Bjarnason
59 Nilsson
60 Gibson
61 Brzustewicz
62 Ratzlaff
63 Cataford
64 Gajan

 

[sfvega]

The only reason I could see it happening is if teams get scared off by the Russian factor, which is even more amplified this year more than previous years. He is currently projected to go somewhere in the mid teens in most mocks. Seeing as how the talent in the 15-30 range is pretty comparable I could see 8-10 teams going safer with those picks and watch him slide.

I'm with you. Very high on him, skeptical that he'll be there. His rankings have bounced around quite a bit, and even many of the so-called experts who are high on him have a lot of variance in where he will go.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

I got a gut feeling Chicago is gonna come out of the 1st with Bedard (obviously) and Simashev and it's gonna make me sick.

 

[Blanick]

No, I am telling you there are ZERO top pairing guys in this draft.
There are 17 forwards in this draft that are better than the best D man.
The only reason any of them are being talked about in the top 10 is because it's been 40 years since the last time a Defenseman wasn't taken in the top 10. Not one of them are actually worthy of being picked that high.

I have no problem using 25 OR 29 for a D man.
But not #10. That pick goes to a forward because the forwards are that much better than the D this year.

And I think we can do a LOT better than Edstrom with the other pick. At least swing for the fences with somebody like Sale or Heidt. Don't settle for a "safe" 3rd liner in a draft like this. The forward talent is FAR too good for that kind of draft strategy.

If Army is stupid enough to waste our picks like that, he needs to go.

Fair enough. I think we just have vastly different opinions on players. I don't think the defenseman are being overvalued because there are fewer of them at all. I think it goes to show their level of talent that they are being looked at in the same range of names like Wood, Moore, Honzek and Benson. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Personally I think it is going to be really hard for anyone to have bad first round, the talent is deep both offensively and defensively.

 

[LetsGoBooze]

That is fair. If Reinbacher is available at 10 I would take him but have a feeling he will be long gone by then. To me I was really impressed by some of the film I saw of Willander on youtube a few months back. He just has a calmness back on defense and a very smart stick. He could be that guy in a few years when everyone is looking back at this draft wondering, "how in the hell did he make it pick #10."

I just like a few more forwards in that range before im making that pick. I do like Willander, but unless we trade back a few spots, he wouldn't be my choice @10.

 

[Majorityof1]

I think your assessment of Willander and Simashev "being second pairing at best," is woefully off the mark. I think that is the floor for those two. Are they surefire top pairing guys... no but I think they both have that potential. Hell most mocks have them as the #2 and #3 defenseman in this draft behind Reinbacher. Are you telling me that their is only one defenseman in this entire draft who is capable of top pairing minutes. I don't buy that. Moreover, my point still stands even if they only become second pairing guys in that we currently don't have anyone in our system that projects to that. We have several that we are hopeful can reach that but don't have anyone under 30 outside of the perpetually injured Perunovich (and even thats a stretch) that looks like they could step in and play in the top 4.

Anytime you think the floor of a prospect is 2nd pair/middle 6, and that prospect isn't a consensus top 5 pick, you are overhyping them. Any prospect not a consensus top 5 can bust. I am not talking about these two particular players, just in general. If you are picking 10th, much less 25th and your thought is, "well at the worst we'll have a solid 2nd pairing guy", you are overrating the player.

 

[Blanick]

Anytime you think the floor of a prospect is 2nd pair/middle 6, and that prospect isn't a consensus top 5 pick, you are overhyping them. Any prospect not a consensus top 5 can bust. I am not talking about these two particular players, just in general. If you are picking 10th, much less 25th and your thought is, "well at the worst we'll have a solid 2nd pairing guy", you are overrating the player.

I think that is overgeneralizing based off draft position. Two things that I would like to counter with. First is the depth of this draft. Instead of top 5 of surefire players it has been repeatedly said that players being drafted in the early to mid teens would be top 5 any other year. Secondly I am not basing my opinion simply on scouting reports and mock draft positions, I have personally watch a lot of film on those two and several others and have based my opinions off of said film.

Willander has the potential to be steady 2 way defender who can calmly move pucks out of pressure with both his feet and vision and has Pietrangelo level stick play to help break of plays to go along with being a high end skater. Not just break neck speed but very comfortable on his edges.

Simashev meanwhile also possess above average skating for his size, he is very agile and plays with ice water in his veins. Rarely see him panic with a puck, uses to long reach and size to close of players quickly and his large frame to shield the puck from the opposing forecheck. Has a solid first pass and excellent vision, his offensive game is a bit of weaker point but he has shown some flashes here and there.

I know that you should always take the BPA and let the rest work itself out. However, with so much ambiguity around where our picks land and our desperate need for young defense I think landed these two would be a A+ draft in my book by Army. I know they aren't the flashy forwards that are going to explode on the scene but IMO they are the right guys for this team right now. Draft them, let them develop and 5 years from now they will be key pieces on our backend.

 

[kimzey59]

Anytime you think the floor of a prospect is 2nd pair/middle 6, and that prospect isn't a consensus top 5 pick, you are overhyping them. Any prospect not a consensus top 5 can bust. I am not talking about these two particular players, just in general. If you are picking 10th, much less 25th and your thought is, "well at the worst we'll have a solid 2nd pairing guy", you are overrating the player.

Patrick Stefan and Pavel Brendl

Even top 5 picks can bust.

 

[Thallis]

I think your assessment of Willander and Simashev "being second pairing at best," is woefully off the mark. I think that is the floor for those two. Are they surefire top pairing guys... no but I think they both have that potential. Hell most mocks have them as the #2 and #3 defenseman in this draft behind Reinbacher. Are you telling me that their is only one defenseman in this entire draft who is capable of top pairing minutes. I don't buy that. Moreover, my point still stands even if they only become second pairing guys in that we currently don't have anyone in our system that projects to that. We have several that we are hopeful can reach that but don't have anyone under 30 outside of the perpetually injured Perunovich (and even thats a stretch) that looks like they could step in and play in the top 4.

FWIW, I've heard of multiple scouts saying there aren't any top pair D in this draft and any D taken before 15 is a reach. Obviously opinions can and do vary, but the general temperature is closer to Kimzey's opinion from what I've been seeing.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

No, I am telling you there are ZERO top pairing guys in this draft.
There are 17 forwards in this draft that are better than the best D man.
The only reason any of them are being talked about in the top 10 is because it's been 40 years since the last time a Defenseman wasn't taken in the top 10. Not one of them are actually worthy of being picked that high.

I have no problem using 25 OR 29 for a D man.
But not #10. That pick goes to a forward because the forwards are that much better than the D this year.

And I think we can do a LOT better than Edstrom with the other pick. At least swing for the fences with somebody like Sale or Heidt. Don't settle for a "safe" 3rd liner in a draft like this. The forward talent is FAR too good for that kind of draft strategy.

If Army is stupid enough to waste our picks like that, he needs to go.

17 that have a 2nd line floor? I will disagree. I think all 3 have the ability to be a 2 or a 3 and probably a floor of a 4. That’s why I would pick them over a Yeager or Danielson at 10. If Sale is there at 25 I take him. I cant do it with 10. He’s the biggest wild card in the draft next to Michkov. I agree.

You are undervaluing Edstrom. He was as key to Swedens success in the U18s as any of the USNTP players were to theirs. He was far better than Ritchie or Cristall or Moore. I see a guy who slots in your top six with speed and versatility. You win with players like Edstrom. They had no answer in front of the net for him.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Fair enough. I think we just have vastly different opinions on players. I don't think the defenseman are being overvalued because there are fewer of them at all. I think it goes to show their level of talent that they are being looked at in the same range of names like Wood, Moore, Honzek and Benson. We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Personally I think it is going to be really hard for anyone to have bad first round, the talent is deep both offensively and defensively.

If you watched the U18s, then you know who came out of the corner with the puck. It wasn’t USNTPs top line or other first rounders. It was Willander consistently. EP Rinkside named him the number 3 star for that reason.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Updated list:

1 Bedard
2 Carlsson
3 Michkov
4 Fantilli
5 Smith
6 Leonard
7 Perreault
8 Dvorsky
9 Wood
10 Benson
11 Danielson
12 Ritchie
13 Simashev
14 Honzek
15 Reinbacher
16 Barlow
17 Willander
18 Sale
19 Stenberg
20 Yager
21 Sandin Pellikka
22 Moore
23 But
24 Edstrom
25 Musty
26 Lindstein
27 Gulyayev
28 Nadeau
29 Bonk
30 Perron
31 Heidt
32 Gauthier
33 Sawchyn
34 Molgaard
35 Lardis
36 Cristall
37 Strbak
38 Fowler
39 Morin
40 Wahlberg
41 Akey
42 Dragicevic
43 Unger Sorum
44 Pekarcik
45 Karpovich
46 Hrabel
47 Price
48 Molendyk
49 Ciernik
50 Hameenaho
51 Nelson
52 Brindley
53 Halttunen
54 Dvorak
55 Augustine
56 Dower Nilsson
57 Myatovic
58 Bjarnason
59 Nilsson
60 Gibson
61 Brzustewicz
62 Ratzlaff
63 Cataford
64 Gajan

I wouldn’t mind a 29 pick of Nadeau either. He could be a home run pick or a curve in the dirt.

 

[HighNote]

No, I am telling you there are ZERO top pairing guys in this draft.

I'd be shocked if this ended up being the case. When was the last time this happened?

 

[Bluesnatic27]

FWIW, I've heard of multiple scouts saying there aren't any top pair D in this draft and any D taken before 15 is a reach. Obviously opinions can and do vary, but the general temperature is closer to Kimzey's opinion from what I've been seeing.

The bolded needs to be said in every instance of this draft.

There is no consensus of this draft. Zach Benson is ranked anywhere from top-4 to 15th. Ryan Leonard is ranked anywhere between 5th to 18th. Dimtri Simashev is ranked from top-10 to mid 2nd round. Frankly, trying to use the "consensus" angle is pointless this year compared to any other.

The tiers of players are just too large once past the big 4 (maybe 5 if you wish to include Smith). I can't agree with Kimzey because I think his views on the defensemen this year are just flat out wrong. But even if we wish to ignore the defensemen, picking anyone past pick 7 is just splitting hairs with a scalpel. There are so many players that will achieve the same overall result that ignoring anyone is lunacy as far as I'm concerned. I mean, Barlow, Danielson, and Moore are all vastly different players when you watch them play and are all legitimate options for the #10 spot. But the most likely result for each is that of a middle-6 player. I have my own opinions of Moore, but for argument's sake, the most likely outcome for any of the three is a player that can chip in 40 - 55 points while not being a core player a franchise should build around. They will achieve this result in varying ways. But the result/effect will largely be the same. I can't really see how that result is any different from a 2nd paring defenseman but to each their own.

 

[Xerloris]

I don't know much about the propsects but I did a tiny bit of research and than did a SIM for the draft. What do you all think of my results?

 

[Xerloris]

If we do not pick a Dman I think it's safe to assume we did not think there was a top pairing Dman available. I don't see Doug using a pick on a #5.

 

[Stealth JD]

I'd be happy if we came away with #10, #25 and #29 from this list; though this is a ranking and not a mock draft.

MSN

 

[PJJJP]

Wheeler just had his most recent mock draft. Why are both him and Pronman always mocking Stramel to the blues
10. Moore
25. Stramel
29. Morin

 

[STL fan in MN]

I wouldn’t mind a 29 pick of Nadeau either. He could be a home run pick or a curve in the dirt.

Same. Out of the guys projected to go late 1st/early 2nd, he likely has one of the higher upsides. Great shot and good skater. Could really blossom in college next season.

And to be honest, I’d probably be good with any of the guys I have ranked through 40 with picks 25 and/or 29. From about 23-40, I don’t see a ton of separation.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Same. Out of the guys projected to go late 1st/early 2nd, he likely has one of the higher upsides. Great shot and good skater. Could really blossom in college next season.

And to be honest, I’d probably be good with any of the guys I have ranked through 40 with picks 25 and/or 29. From about 23-40, I don’t see a ton of separation.

I agree. 2nd round would be nice to get a pick or two.

 

[Oberyn]

A lot of mock drafts seem to have the Blues taking Charlie Stramel with one of our later first round picks. Admittedly I don't know much about him but I do recall him being highly touted prior to entering college and his lackluster production is what dropped him down the rankings. He appears to be a big bodied center (which everyone loves) but lacks high end skill and hockey IQ. I'm curious to those that are more knowledgeable on this draft, what's the scoop on Stramel? Is he worth a late 1st? His tool set doesn't jump out as very appealing to me but I tend to be biased toward skilled players who can skate and anticipate the play.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

A lot of mock drafts seem to have the Blues taking Charlie Stramel with one of our later first round picks. Admittedly I don't know much about him but I do recall him being highly touted prior to entering college and his lackluster production is what dropped him down the rankings. He appears to be a big bodied center (which everyone loves) but lacks high end skill and hockey IQ. I'm curious to those that are more knowledgeable on this draft, what's the scoop on Stramel? Is he worth a late 1st? His tool set doesn't jump out as very appealing to me but I tend to be biased toward skilled players who can skate and anticipate the play.

I'm with you in your biases as I have the same.

Even with that said, I would be livid if the Blues used a pick in the first 2 rounds on Stramel.

 

[Blueswin]

This isn't a bad result for a mock draft - Leonard, Willander, But

MSN

 

[Stealth JD]

This isn't a bad result for a mock draft - Leonard, Willander, But

MSN

That's about as beautiful as it could get from where the Blues are sitting, in my opinion anyway.