WC: 2023 Czech Team

[Goodman68]

View attachment 712609

Unfortunately, that's how I'm afraid he'll stay if Pasta stands up for him..
I have no idea if Pasta saw it, Kari beat even Pešán, I didn't think it was even possible. I don't envy Lojza, he will have a very difficult role..

 

[Czechboy]

Unfortunately, that's how I'm afraid he'll stay if Pasta stands up for him..
I have no idea if Pasta saw it, Kari beat even Pešán, I didn't think it was even possible. I don't envy Lojza, he will have a very difficult role..

He will make himself the coach and save us.

 

[Goodman68]

He will make himself the coach and save us.

Today was a very difficult day for me. At least at the end I remembered that the Swedish troll certainly had his traditional prediction somewhere and I was not wrong. So it really lifted my spirits at the end of the day

 

[Czechboy]

Today was a very difficult day for me. At least at the end I remembered that the Swedish troll certainly had his traditional prediction somewhere and I was not wrong. So it really lifted my spirits at the end of the day

I've been so pissed off that I'm only on my second beer (kozel). Just angry.lol.

The U18 and Skoda result are embarrassingly awful and nothing to look forward to till that U17 hockey challenge. I'm never home for hlinka and rarely have a signal. So watch us win that.haha

 

[24 others]

I will bet a million CZK that Havlat didn't see one AHL rink. He went for dinners with Pasta and the boys and went to the beach with Radko. I'm not even trying to be funny. I'd love to see what these intensive scouting trips look like.

I am SO MUCH with you here. But of course these journeys have been paid for by the Czech Hockey Association - right? Which means that the receipts and the itineraries are stored & archived. I would LOVE to see someone call them out to show the itineraries of these trips. I am 1000% they look like what you describe.

 

[Voodoozz]

I'll go against the majority here but I think firing Kari before his contract runs out wouldn't be the right move to make. Yeah, I don't really enjoy the style of hockey he embraces in the national team but ultimately all circumstances we're going against them this year - injuries of key players before/during the tournament (top 2 centers, top offensive D), elite NHL players denying (and I don't think it has anything to do with Havlat tbh, if the players were able/wanted to play for the NT, they would have said yes regardless), top ahl players still in the playoffs (Kulich and Blümel would have gotten an invite had they been available). And even though I've disagreed with many of the roster/lineup decisions the coaches made (as elaborated further in the text), I think the final result reflects the reality of our hockey - thin pool of players who can be difference makers on an international stage. Aside from top guys like Červenka and Kubalík, this year we basically either had players like Flek or Beránek who can fly out there but their hands and brains can't keep up or we had players like Špaček and Tomášek who have plenty of skill 1v1 and can pass the puck but they don't have the skating to create enough separation. Last but not least, there were the workhorse types like Smejkal or Černoch who play their hearts out and can do a little bit of both worlds, but not on a sufficient level.

Now, I think Kari's beton style will suit us much better if we'll be able to bring more talent from overseas next year (and it's to be expected, everyone will want to come play in Prague). If we get a few players like Pasta, Hronek, Kulich, Kubalík, Jiříček, Chytil, Rousek, Hertl, Palát, Nečas etc., they'll be able to create enough offense in Kari's system and the home atmosphere will also make the players play more assertively and aggressively in general. Let Jalonen have his one final round and then let's move to Rulík for the next couple of years. I too would enjoy someone who would employ more offensive style as a NT head coach right away but that's not the main issue of Czech hockey. With good players, Kari's style can play into our strenghts next year.

Anyway, some points of critique in regards to this year's Worlds:

I obviously didn't like the D nomination. Kari's style would benefit from more agile defensemen, who would transition the puck more quickly and would join in for quick counterattacks/odd man rushes so we could generate more offense with our passive approach. The only guy that I thought was somewhat mobile and was at least trying to make plays with some speed was Knot, and he got benched right away. Galvas should have been there 100 %, but would he alone really make that big of a difference?

Sadly, they didn't have many other options. I don't think Svozil's good enough skater for this level yet, but yeah, he couldn't have done us more harm than our 'MVP' Jordán and even might have gotten himself on the scoresheet lol. But other than that, Král was injured, David Špaček was still in the CHL playoffs. From Europe - Klok denied (personal reasons), Sklenička denied (season fatigue iirc). And I think that's it if I only count guys who I personally think would improve this year's defense. So realistically, only Svozil and Galvas (and possibly Hájek) could have joined the team. Would I like them on the team? Sure. Would it in the end affect the display on the ice? Not in a decisive way IMO.

Similar can be said about forwards. Yes, I'd like to see Lauko, Jeník or even someone like Brabenec or Szturc. I even think there were interesting alternatives in Extraliga that would make the team more mobile and skilled - Oscar Flynn, Adam Najman come to mind. I would take some of these guys in for Lenc, Kaut, Voženílek or Sobotka right away. But would that be enough to make a difference for us? I don't think so. It would definitely make me more excited about the team though.

One more thing I do hold against the coaching staff, aside from Erat's PP setups , is that they haven't taken advantage of the EHT tournaments to test some of the more promising younger players against top euro competition. Those tourneys should be almost exclusivelly used to build a fast young core of U25 extraliga players - give them some international experience and motivation to work harder to make it to the final team in the future (e.g. Ticháček, Bambula, Šalé, Budík, Pour, Štibingr, Hladoník, Navrátil, Fridrich, Malát, Hrabík, Dvořák, Pavlát, A. Jiříček all come to mind). Hopefully this will change for the better going forward, but who knows.

In the end, my sole wish looking at next year is that I won't be forced to watch M. Jordan skate. Never again please and I'll die a happy man.

 

[Czechboy]

Those tourneys should be almost exclusivelly used to build a fast young core of U25 extraliga players

Really nice writeup... this was my fav part of it but it was all very good!

 

[Goodman68]

I'll go against the majority here but I think firing Kari before his contract runs out wouldn't be the right move to make. Yeah, I don't really enjoy the style of hockey he embraces in the national team but ultimately all circumstances we're going against them this year - injuries of key players before/during the tournament (top 2 centers, top offensive D), elite NHL players denying (and I don't think it has anything to do with Havlat tbh, if the players were able/wanted to play for the NT, they would have said yes regardless), top ahl players still in the playoffs (Kulich and Blümel would have gotten an invite had they been available). And even though I've disagreed with many of the roster/line decision the coaches made (as elaborated further in the text), I think the final result is reflects the reality of our hockey - thin pool of players who can be difference makers on an international stage. Aside from top guys like Červenka and Kubalík, this year we basically either had players like Flek or Beránek who can fly out there but their hands and brains can't keep up or we had players like Špaček and Tomášek who have plenty of skill 1v1 and can pass the puck but they don't have the skating to create enough separation. Last but not least, there were the workhorse types like Smejkal or Černoch who play their hearts out and can do a little bit of both worlds, but not on a sufficient level.

Now, I think Kari's beton style will suit us much better if we'll be able to bring more talent from overseas next year (and it's to be expected, everyone will want to come play in Prague). If we get a few players like Pasta, Hronek, Kulich, Kubalík, Jiříček, Chytil, Rousek, Hertl, Palát, Nečas etc., they'll be able to create enough offense in Kari's system and the home atmosphere will also make the players play more assertively and aggressively in general. Let Jalonen have his one final round and then let's move to Rulík for the next couple of years. I too would enjoy someone who would employ more offensive style as a NT head coach right away but that's not the main issue of Czech hockey. With good players, Kari's style can play into our strenghts next year.

Anyway, some points of critique for this year's Worlds:

I obviously didn't like the D nomination. Kari's style would benefit from more agile defensemen, who would transition the puck more quickly and would join in for quick counterattacks/odd man rushes so we could generate more offense with our passive approach. The only guy that I thought was somewhat mobile and was at least trying to make plays with some speed was Knot, and he got benched right away. Galvas should have been there 100 %, but would he alone really make that big of a difference?

Sadly, they didn't have many other options. I don't think Svozil's good enough skater for this level yet, but yeah, he couldn't have done us more harm than our 'MVP' Jordán and even might have gotten himself on the scoresheet lol. But other than that, Král was injured, David Špaček was still in the CHL playoffs. From Europe - Klok denied (personal reasons), Sklenička denied (season fatigue iirc). And I think that's it if I only count guys who I personally think would improve this year's defense. So realistically, only Svozil and Galvas (and possibly Hájek) could have joined the team. Would I like them on the team? Sure. Would it in the end affect the display on the ice? Not in a decisive way IMO.

Similar can be said about forwards. Yes, I'd like to see Lauko, Jeník or even someone like Brabenec or Szturc. I even think there were interesting alternatives in Extraliga that would make the team more mobile and skilled - Oscar Flynn, Adam Najman come to mind. I would take some of these guys in for Lenc, Kaut, Voženílek or Sobotka right away. But would that be enough to make a difference for us? I don't think so. It would definitely make me more excited about the team though.

One more thing I do hold against the coaching staff, aside from Erat's PP setups , is that they haven't taken advantage of the EHT tournaments to test some of the more promising younger players against top euro competition. Those tourneys should be almost exclusivelly used to build a fast young core of U25 extraliga players - give them some international experience and motivation to work harder to make it to the final team in the future (e.g. Ticháček, Bambula, Šalé, Budík, Pour, Štibingr, Hladoník, Navrátil, Fridrich, Malát, Hrabík, Dvořák, Pavlát, A. Jiříček all come to mind). Hopefully this will change for the better going forward, but who knows.

In the end, my sole wish looking at next year is that I won't be forced to watch M. Jordan skate. Never again please and I'll die a happy man

I would agree with the majority if.. If our team's game didn't look like it did last year and I have strong doubts if we would have progressed to the QF at all if Pastrňák had not strengthened us. That game was just as bad as this year. Yes, I would like Jalonen to quit, his ignorance of young players is obvious, in two years I have not seen any progress of the team, on the contrary, nomination mistakes, often a literally poor game presented. On the other hand, in a year the championship will be with us and I believe that we will have a much better team and the individuals will raise the quality of the team by a lot. I want to write that they can do it despite Jalonen..

 

[dryz]

If I was Kari I would just quit. Why play a part in Hadamczik's (and his millionare sidekick Dedek's) dirty games. It's clear they don't want him there. I don't even care anymore. With Hadamczik, nothing will ever change. And we play at home next year so whoever is coaching won't be taking young team or experiment too much anyway.

 

[martygod12]

A lot of good read there and opinions. Agree espcially with that 6part post by Czech, thats spot on.

Well I am sad, that my and others predictions before the tournament, that "this will end up with a complete disaster" were true. Hopefully it will be better next year with stronger team and different coaching staff.

Its maybe not entirely fair towards Kari, but there is really not much going for him. One lucky bronze cant outweight two years of ugly and terrible hockey. Weak record agaist strong opponents (2W 8L), where we got outplayed in most of those matches. Historical losses against Austria and Latvia. and overall just bad performances under him. I seriously have to think hard if I even saw us play one good consistent match at WCH under him in those two years. Thats just bad.

But who I want to be gone 100x more is not Kari, but the coaching staff. Serisously this squadra is the most incompetent and amateurish group of coaches "experts" basically anyone ever had.

Especially Erat and Havlat. Its absolutelly ridiculous, even absurd. Guys have not had a single coaching or GM experience and we slap them straight into the national team??? Serisouly what the f*** lol. Great hockey player just DOESNT mean good coach and especially not a good manager. I know they need to start somewhere, but why in the freakin national team?? You wanna be coach. sure, start in chance liga or somewhere and if you show enough skill, go up and eventually make it to the NT. But not start there with absolutelly zero coaching or managering skills and experience lol. But I guess it was again "pushed" cause they are friends of someone important etc. Just common disgusting practices in czech hockey nothing new.

So my conclusion is, Kari should end, but mainly the whole staff needs to be fired and replaced.

 

[martygod12]

Btw just read a couple of posts at Swedish and Swiss threads. They are discussing the exactly same things lol. Especially Swedes are also thrashing they euro guys being the weakest in their team.

There is definitely something to it. I think its not just us czechs, but all major euro nations needs to get their head out of theirs asses and face the truth, and that is that the quality gap between NHL and euro leagues is MUCH much bigger than it was lets say 10yrs ago. And with overall raising quality in the NHL, there is logically also raise in quality in the AHL. which is now a better league, then any top euro league. Thats my opinion.

The euro nation, which realizes this the fastest and starts relying on their guys from north america more, will have a huge advantage against others.

 

[Rexor]

I would agree with the majority if.. If our team's game didn't look like it did last year and I have strong doubts if we would have progressed to the QF at all if Pastrňák had not strengthened us. That game was just as bad as this year. Yes, I would like Jalonen to quit, his ignorance of young players is obvious, in two years I have not seen any progress of the team, on the contrary, nomination mistakes, often a literally poor game presented. On the other hand, in a year the championship will be with us and I believe that we will have a much better team and the individuals will raise the quality of the team by a lot. I want to write that they can do it despite Jalonen..

Saying that we wouldn't have progressed without Pastrňák is a strange argument. Would we have won in Nagano without Hašek? No, we wouldn't have even made it past the quarterfinals without him. Would Florida have progressed as far as they have without Tkachuk this year? Hardly. That's the point of having star players on your team - they allow you to win games you wouldn't have won otherwise.

I've been watching every WC over the last 25 years, and I can recall only one (2011) maybe two of them without any bad or at least uninspired and disappointing games from the Czech team in the group stage. It's always been this way, for various reasons. Kinda disingenous to use this against Jalonen. Yes, he's been employing a boring, defensive style, but we weren't exactly playing run-and-gun even during the Golden Hattrick years, and more importantly, what can we realistically expect with the players we have right now?

 

[Rexor]

If I was Kari I would just quit. Why play a part in Hadamczik's (and his millionare sidekick Dedek's) dirty games. It's clear they don't want him there. I don't even care anymore. With Hadamczik, nothing will ever change. And we play at home next year so whoever is coaching won't be taking young team or experiment too much anyway.

The curse of Czech hockey (and football) since the 1990's: it's full of arrogant alpha-male enterpreneurs with hugely boosted egos and my way or the highway attitudes. That's what helped them make their money but this mentality is disastrous when you want to build a successful and stable non-hierarchical organization focused on long-term results, because something like this demands patience, certain humility and above all, cooperation.

Having superficial, money-following and cowardly media who love attacking the hockey association but will never ever criticize club owners, and confused, ignorant fans with their ubiquitous pub trivialities such as "the coach failed to tell his players to skate faster and shoot harder" , doesn't help much either.

 

[Goodman68]

Saying that we wouldn't have progressed without Pastrňák is a strange argument. Would we have won in Nagano without Hašek? No, we wouldn't have even made it past the quarterfinals without him. Would Florida have progressed as far as they have without Tkachuk this year? Hardly. That's the point of having star players on your team - they allow you to win games you wouldn't have won otherwise.

I've been watching every WC over the last 25 years, and I can recall only one (2011) maybe two of them without any bad or at least uninspired and disappointing games from the Czech team in the group stage. It's always been this way, for various reasons. Kinda disingenous to use this against Jalonen. Yes, he's been employing a boring, defensive style, but we weren't exactly playing run-and-gun even during the Golden Hattrick years, and more importantly, what can we realistically expect with the players we have right now?

I'm just pointing out the huge difference in the performance of the team without Pastrňák and with him. That performance with Austria was dismal. If we had played with Norway or Latvia without Pasta, another loss would have been real. We haven't been better with both of these teams this year either. And sorry, I really can't be satisfied with such performances, when we are saved by the arrival of one star in the middle of the tournament, or an exceptionally good performance by the goalkeeper.. That is, against similar opponents..

 

[Rexor]

I'm just pointing out the huge difference in the performance of the team without Pastrňák and with him. That performance with Austria was dismal. If we had played with Norway or Latvia without Pasta, another loss would have been real. We haven't been better with both of these teams this year either. And sorry, I really can't be satisfied with such performances, when we are saved by the arrival of one star in the middle of the tournament, or an exceptionally good performance by the goalkeeper.. That is, against similar opponents..

I never cared that much about bad games against underdogs during the group stage. It's not a Czech-only issue. Annoying for us fans, yes, but top teams are always trying to save as much energy as possible for the KO rounds and it's pointless to be playing at full throttle against the likes of Austria. And even those teams have a lot of players in good leagues and can be pesky, so that one should not be schocked that without at least three or four really good players from the NHL, it's not always easy to beat them 5-0 or so.

 

[Czechboy]

Btw just read a couple of posts at Swedish and Swiss threads. They are discussing the exactly same things lol. Especially Swedes are also thrashing they euro guys being the weakest in their team.

There is definitely something to it. I think its not just us czechs, but all major euro nations needs to get their head out of theirs asses and face the truth, and that is that the quality gap between NHL and euro leagues is MUCH much bigger than it was lets say 10yrs ago. And with overall raising quality in the NHL, there is logically also raise in quality in the AHL. which is now a better league, then any top euro league. Thats my opinion.

The euro nation, which realizes this the fastest and starts relying on their guys from north america more, will have a huge advantage against others.

While I get being a full time professional athlete in the AHL would suck. Eg. if I was a pro hockey player and knew I wasn't going to the NHL skillwise, I go to Europe and have a much better experience than the AHL and their buses to small shitty towns! Absolutely.

However, what the AHL is? It's a bunch of 20 to 25 year olds busting their asses trying to make the NHL. All young, all broke and all enthusiastic. It's a eutopia for a national team!

Ex. our Extraliga is filled with guys over 25 that never came close or are out of the league and on the decline (Frolik Sobotka Plekanec). Or 25 to 30 year olds that would be in the AHL and never get out. Hell, Kovar couldn't get out of the AHL., Knot couldn't either. Nor could Klok. Sklenicka. Blumel even! Poor old Frk.

Point is... if you are looking for younger and faster. I know where to start!

Also, almost no goalie or Dman gets to the NHL without AHL time. 80% at least of all the goalies and D in the NHL spent time in the AHL.

 

[Czechboy]

And we play at home next year so whoever is coaching won't be taking young team or experiment too much anyway.

You would think we'd have a similar lineup to like 2011 in Bratislava but the last one in Prague was a lot of missing names.

My big fear, and the trend I'm seeing is that they will continue with this 50% must be Extraliga mentality. Whoever is pushing that is who I want fired.lol

Czechs have a long history of leaving good NHLers behind for people like Barinka. Who, in fairness, was part of the 2010 gold.

The argument seems to be that the coach will do better with a stronger roster. I agree totally but I wanted to see what the coach could do with a weaker roster since we usually have weaker rosters. So far, he hasn't passed. His best wins are with Pasta.

 

[Czechboy]

Btw just read a couple of posts at Swedish and Swiss threads. They are discussing the exactly same things lol. Especially Swedes are also thrashing they euro guys being the weakest in their team.

There is definitely something to it. I think its not just us czechs, but all major euro nations needs to get their head out of theirs asses and face the truth, and that is that the quality gap between NHL and euro leagues is MUCH much bigger than it was lets say 10yrs ago. And with overall raising quality in the NHL, there is logically also raise in quality in the AHL. which is now a better league, then any top euro league. Thats my opinion.

The euro nation, which realizes this the fastest and starts relying on their guys from north america more, will have a huge advantage against others.

The other thing... let's use 2010... a guy like Karel Rachunek looked like one of the best D's in the world. He was dominant and flying out there and very noticeable. Ondrej Nemec could show up and do a great job. To a lesser extent so could Blatak. I remember K. Jonnson for the Swedes every year and he was clearly a top Dman in the world despite not being in the NHL.

I don't think there are many Rachunek's in the Europe at all for us... anywhere. Klok would be the closest but I wouldn't put him on that high a pedestal personally. We only have a handful of guys in Europe that could keep up with the best of the big boys... maybe Jaskin on a 4th line? Cervenka in the right situation (his points halfed this tournament because he had Sobotka instead of Krejci.. big difference). Obviously, Krejci when he was in Olomouc. Kempny can sort of keep up. I'm not sure if I missed any other obvious answers?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The other thing... let's use 2010... a guy like Karel Rachunek looked like one of the best D's in the world. He was dominant and flying out there and very noticeable. Ondrej Nemec could show up and do a great job. To a lesser extent so could Blatak. I remember K. Jonnson for the Swedes every year and he was clearly a top Dman in the world despite not being in the NHL.

I don't think there are many Rachunek's in the Europe at all for us... anywhere. Klok would be the closest but I wouldn't put him on that high a pedestal personally. We only have a handful of guys in Europe that could keep up with the best of the big boys... maybe Jaskin on a 4th line? Cervenka in the right situation (his points halfed this tournament because he had Sobotka instead of Krejci.. big difference). Obviously, Krejci when he was in Olomouc. Kempny can sort of keep up. I'm not sure if I missed any other obvious answers?

Are we talking about Kenny Jonsson? He was a fantastic NHL player (all star once IIRC) but never got the recognition because he was mired on atrocious NY Islanders teams.

 

[Czechboy]

Are we talking about Kenny Jonsson? He was a fantastic NHL player (all star once IIRC) but never got the recognition because he was mired on atrocious NY Islanders teams.

Played for Leafs and Isles but returned to Swedish league... Was always at the worlds

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Played for Leafs but returned to Swedish league... Was always at the worlds

This guy? Kenny Jonsson Stats and News

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The Islanders were never in the playoffs so he could always go.

 

[Czechboy]

Top 10 scorers... 2 are from Europe. Rest are AHL, NCAA or NHL. More AHL guys than Euro guys. No Extraliga. Kempny will win the extraliga scoring title at the World's. He was very good for us. Sedlak probably would've had a say here too. Both returning NHLers.

 

[Czechboy]

This guy? Kenny Jonsson Stats and News

I screencapped his Euro career above when he was in Rogle. He played everywhere for Sweden... totally comitted and was NHL calibre. He was a.ppg dman at the worlds almost for those 5 years. A true warrior. There is nothing like that now on the medalists. Just like we could win with guys that never made the NHL 20 years ago. That isn't happening anymore unless you are the Finn's. They have a magic recipe and seem to do worse with NHLers.

 

[Old Man Jags]

I read Havlat’s interview on isport and threw up in my mouth a little. Deluded, supremely arrogant, condescending towards Nosek, Lauko and others and zero acknowledgment that good players exist in North America outside the NHL. When the interviewer pointed out the make-up of the US team, he responded by babbling about us no longer having as many NHL players as we used to have without acknowledging the existence of the leagues many of the superior American players play in. And his statement on Svozil?