The last RB to win MVP was Adrian Peterson, his numbers that year shit all over what McCaffrey did this year. Hell, Derrick Henry had a few years that dwarf what McCaffrey accomplished this year and he didn't even get a sniff of the MVP. He had a good year, but nothing otherwordly to give it to a running back.
NFL GDT: 2023 AFC Championship Game: (1) Baltimore Ravens vs (3) Kansas City Chiefs
- Thread starter MMC
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Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
Good lord is this dude one of the kings of terrible takes.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Instead we are going to give it to Lamar?
There were no good QB seasons to give the MVP to.. McCaffrey had a very good season including the TD domination. If there's any year to give it to a non-QB its this year.
Jordan Love has a better case than Lamar FFS.
JetsWillFly4Ever
PLAY EHLERS 20 MIN A NIGHT
They show Swift for like 2 minutes a broadcast and the little boys here spend hours crafting posts on internet forums complaining about her. Grow up.
Said it before the game in this thread, Lamar being favored over Mahomes when he has never proven it in the playoffs was dicey. Proved to be exactly that. Lamar was the reason they lost, flat out was not good enough.
Said it before the game in this thread, Lamar being favored over Mahomes when he has never proven it in the playoffs was dicey. Proved to be exactly that. Lamar was the reason they lost, flat out was not good enough.
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
I can't overstate how utterly stupid I find the vast majority of playoff narratives in football and most of every sport as well.
We're dealing with tiny sample sizes over vast periods of time with constantly changing factors. Give me a Dak Prescott (or Tony Romo before him) or Lamar or Kirk Cousins or Joe Thornton or or or any high-performing player over big sample sizes (like multiple regular seasons) and I'll keep trying to win with them unless there's genuinely something mental that's a concern. Those guys are rare enough to begin with.
The truth is Lamar Jackson had an uneven game and that short of him dicing up teams like he has for the past month at the tune of 4-5 touchdowns a game was always going to bring idiots (not meaning you) out of the woodwork. These guys aren't playing a different sport in the playoffs. If you think there's a common plan to beating Lamar in the playoffs, you'd see it applied in the regular season. People are just stupidly buying into preconceived narratives. Zay Flowers doesn't fumble at the 1 and it's a 3 point game and then it's a ball game. Things change fast.
It's exactly why we saw @WeThreeKings talk crap before the Houston game. Then go quiet when Lamar went off. And then come back when this game was over. Because God forbid you don't actually hedge your bet.
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JetsWillFly4Ever
PLAY EHLERS 20 MIN A NIGHT
Ya, Lamar is still very very good. Unfortunately he was flat out bad today. I don't think Monken did him any favours either.
Mahomes is just next level and I will bet on him over someone who has never done it before every time.
Super Bowl is going to be the same thing, 49ers have the better team. KC has Mahomes and the pedigree of having done it again and again.
It's like the Ravens brass wanted to make a statement on Lamar's MVP (likely win) against Mahomes by putting the ball in his hands vs play to their strengths and run the ball.
Lamar did not have a good game, but despite all of that, they were still in the game. But, 2 of their final 3 drives ended in turnovers that you simply can't make. Extending the ball at the goal line, when it was 2nd and 8 thus a first down at the 1 if Flowers keeps the ball tucked vs try to score himself.
And Lamar throwing into triple coverage when in FG range. Had to secure a score on that drive given the fumble on the last one. Even a FG, then on their last drive, they'd have gone for it on 4th down vs kick the FG most likely.
Terry Yake
Registered User
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lamar was not the sole reason they lost. he could've been better, but the ravens lost for a variety of reasons
monken called a horrendous game and abandoned the run early for some reason. 6 RB carries is just crazy. lamar can win with his arm, he's already proven that. but there was no reason to completely abandon the run game for an all out passing attack. especially against one of the league's best defenses and when only down by 7
flowers lost them 7 pts with the taunting penalty and getting stripped at the 1 yard line
D didn't show up until halftime and took a bunch of undisciplined penalties
the funny thing is that if flowers isn't stripped, there's a good chance the ravens win that game and all we hear is how lamar beat the chiefs with his arm
Speaking of Flowers, was watching his catch before the taunt, it looks like he actually had Sneed beaten on the outside and he can dash for the endzone from there but for some reason he cuts back inside and Sneed snatches his feet.
JetsWillFly4Ever
PLAY EHLERS 20 MIN A NIGHT
Not the sole reason, but the main reason.
The Ravens offense was horrendous in the first half, and got chance after chance due to their defense being absolutely lights out in the 2nd half. Lamar made a horrendous decision to throw that ball to Likely, taking points off the board in a situation where they absolutely needed points.
Flowers play was a huge swing though for sure and Monken did Lamar no favours. That being said, 10 points on offense, two turnovers. Lamar wears a the biggest part of this.
The more you dig into this game, the less sense it makes for the Ravens. Likely 3 targets, Andrews 2 targets. So they just ignore Lamar's security blanket and Likely who had absolutely been balling down the stretch of the season and against Houston?
That early long TD bomb to Flowers might have been the worst thing that happened to them since they started thinking that play was always going to be there for them.
That early long TD bomb to Flowers might have been the worst thing that happened to them since they started thinking that play was always going to be there for them.
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
Ironic the one's saying "You cant draw conclusions, blame Lamar" are among the people who also crucified Greg Roman for all of Lamar's failings
Greg Roman and the current Raven OC didn't throw into triple coverage in one of dumbest decisions you will see in a key moment of a playoff game
The reality is if you force Lamar to throw ball by taking away his running lanes his play drops significantly
Also, several of those sacks were on him holding ball far too long or being oblivious to pressure as was the sack/fumble early in game and he missed several open WR's in game with bad throws
The reality is Jackson came up small when it mattered most and the questions about his performances in playoffs remain and will remain going forwad
Greg Roman and the current Raven OC didn't throw into triple coverage in one of dumbest decisions you will see in a key moment of a playoff game
The reality is if you force Lamar to throw ball by taking away his running lanes his play drops significantly
Also, several of those sacks were on him holding ball far too long or being oblivious to pressure as was the sack/fumble early in game and he missed several open WR's in game with bad throws
The reality is Jackson came up small when it mattered most and the questions about his performances in playoffs remain and will remain going forwad
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Flowers should absolutely be taking heat for being stupid. 2nd and 8 from the KC 9, so he had a first down if he just keeps the ball tucked away, rather than extend it out and expose the ball to be knocked out. Worst case, it is 3rd and inches from around the 1 yard line.
Absolutely stupid decision. All of these players trying to extend the ball past the goal line vs protecting it like they would in any other part of the field. Because, in the rest of the field, you need to secure the ball when you go down/touched down vs having the play go dead once you cross the goal line, thus if the ball is knocked out before you are down, it's a TD. That's why guys don't extend the ball the same way in the rest of the field.
I mean the Steelers seem to have figured out Jackson in the regular season and they aren't that good.
Jackson has significant flaws that some teams have taken advantage of.
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
This doesn't even make any sense because Lamar had all day to run in the fourth quarter and didn't take them. The Chiefs most definitely did not take away running and make him throw the ball. He - ironically - did this all by himself. I have no idea why the Ravens completely abandoned running the ball only down 10 but that seems far egregious than what you're talking about, which is something that didn't even happen.
What are the flaws?
Terry Yake
Registered User
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nah, lamar struggling against the steelers is just AFC north f***ery. of course, having watt to disrupt things helps quite a bit too. if he was that easy to figure out, he wouldn't be as good as he is
harbaugh said prior to the 3rd that he wanted to expand the running game (which obviously never happened) its too bad no one asked him why exactly that didn't happen
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
You always end up with crickets when the inevitable question of 'If there's a uniform plan to stopping Jackson in the playoffs, why isn't it applied to the regular season? Don't teams want to win there too?'
This guy gets studied week in week out and multiple posters here pretend to have him figured out while he wins a million games and accolades. What people genuinely refuse to acknowledge because it doesn't make for good discussion (and this can apply to other QBs as well) is that playoff samples constitute a tiny amount of games, so you can read a bunch into them albeit rather stupidly. Lamar in 2018 after 6 starts is not the same as Lamar in 2020 is not the same as Lamar in 2023 with a different OC (and etc.).
It's a similar story with Purdy (who's excellent). Lamar did not have a good game and deserves his share of the blame, no doubt about it. I'd say that's about all you can say besides getting into individual plays.
This guy gets studied week in week out and multiple posters here pretend to have him figured out while he wins a million games and accolades. What people genuinely refuse to acknowledge because it doesn't make for good discussion (and this can apply to other QBs as well) is that playoff samples constitute a tiny amount of games, so you can read a bunch into them albeit rather stupidly. Lamar in 2018 after 6 starts is not the same as Lamar in 2020 is not the same as Lamar in 2023 with a different OC (and etc.).
It's a similar story with Purdy (who's excellent). Lamar did not have a good game and deserves his share of the blame, no doubt about it. I'd say that's about all you can say besides getting into individual plays.
The weird thing with Baltimore's offense was there reluctance to stick with the running game and the lack of a short and quick passing game. Two things that would counter a heavy blitzing KC defense. ( KC blitzed Jackson on 44 percent of his drop backs)
EpochLink
Canucks and Jets fan
The Ravens defense played lights out the second half, they adjusted.
The offense was stuck in mud, Lamar is getting roasted today so much so they are calling him ‘Lamar Embiid’.
Also, one narrative someone pointed out today was that Kansas City defense adjust to make sure Lamar had to play QB in the pocket, which benefited the Chiefs.
Which was a big yikes.
The offense was stuck in mud, Lamar is getting roasted today so much so they are calling him ‘Lamar Embiid’.
Also, one narrative someone pointed out today was that Kansas City defense adjust to make sure Lamar had to play QB in the pocket, which benefited the Chiefs.
Which was a big yikes.
Most teams aren't good enough to force Lamar Jackson to be a pocket passer.
edit: And sometimes don't have a good enough secondary to benefit from doing so.
TheAngryHank
Expert
- May 28, 2008
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My steelers fan friend texted me yesterday calling Jackson " Kordell Stewart " keep him in the pocket and he's useless he said.
Terry Yake
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i don't get the whole "win if you force lamar to throw" thing. he won a number of games during the regular season doing exactly that, and against some good teams too
As was said earlier, how may of those teams had a secondary as good as the Chiefs? (KC is probably best in the league at that position)
Spring in Fialta
A malign star kept him
So the plan to beat Lamar Jackson is to have one of the best defenses in the league? This Chiefs defense is the best they've had with Mahomes.
I mean, great. But that says a lot more about how good the Chiefs defense is than anything about Lamar Jackson himself considering we've seen this guy eat up teams with his arm too. And it's not even like the Chiefs took away the run. He had plenty of time to run. The Ravens just became obsessed with chunk plays and acted like they were down 20 instead of 10.
I think the reality of the matter is that people wanted to extrapolate a narrative out of a small sample size over X number of years and are holding into literally anything to justify it instead of maybe admitting that they had a bit of a dopey opinion or preconceived biases (because Jackson is great with his legs, this means he's a poor passer)
Under the increased pressure of the playoffs, some players thrive, some don't.
I don't see Jackson as having that "it" factor to compliment his raw skills. Running QBs don't seem to win Super Bowls.
