Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[landshark]

May be mistaken, but I think they're using "PTO" and "vacation" interchangeably here. "Unlimited PTO" essentially meaning there is no cap on how much vacation time you can accrue, and I guess at the caveat that you can't cash it out when you retire. As opposed to having a set cap of how much vacation you can accrue, any extra gets cashed out annually, and you get paid for any leftover when you retire.

To make things more confusing, I have both "Vacation" and "ATO". The former cash-able, the latter not.

Discussions likes this, one would think we're in the July off-season.

@Cas too

It means there's no bucket of PTO where hours are counted. There's nothing to cash out and there's nothing for the company to have to pay out should the employee and the company decide to part ways. At least in my case.

 

[Cas]

@Cas too

It means there's no bucket of PTO where hours are counted. There's nothing to cash out and there's nothing for the company to have to pay out should the employee and the company decide to part ways. At least in my case.

Right, nothing accrued, no payout, and I'm sure none of you are complaining.

 

[landshark]

Right, nothing accrued, no payout, and I'm sure none of you are complaining.

Every year I take a week to ten days vacation. And maybe three times a year I stick a day off on a FED holiday three day weekend. That's it. The team I've been on has been together and unchanged for a few years so I would feel bad if I stuck them with my work for too long. I probably take a 15 to 18 days off a year. I've been there 9 years so odds are I'm missing out on accruing PTO if we were on the old scale. But, as you said, I'm not complaining.

People that don't/can't take time off are the ones that lose out in the long run.

 

[Barrie22]

In ontario we have 2 kinds of things like PTO i guess, we get vacation time (company literally gives you like 14 days off a year to use, some allow you to bank them some don't) or we get vacation pay (4% to 6% of your gross pay put into an account basically to be used at a later date. Again some allow you to bank it for as long as you want or some make you take it before the new year.)

The 2nd basically like an unlimited vacation time allowed as long as its reasonable and the employee can afford it obviously.

I knew one guy at my old security job that had not taken his vacation pay in over 20 years working a full time job at one of the higher paying job sites. When he retired or quit he was looking at a nice hefty payout lol

 

[tiburon12]

In Thailand they refer to paid time off as Annual Leave, and they very strictly follow the government suggestion of 7 days. But, there are something like 23 National Holidays on top of a handful of religious and cultural ones as well. Companies have to give employees something like 18 Public Holidays at minimum. So even though Annual Leave is low, you still get around 25 days off.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Only in the USA can you have an unlimited paid vacation policy with employees only taking 10 days/year.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Okay okay. Back on topic. Anyone else have a particular dark horse to make the big club out of training camp?

 

[Gecklund]

Only in the USA can you have an unlimited paid vacation policy with employees only taking 10 days/year.

Yeah my company has an unlimited policy. I took time off for the draft and about a week for a vacation. I have not really taken any other time off. Everything breaks when I leave and I have to spend a week working overtime to fix it. Still can’t get a raise though.

Okay okay. Back on topic. Anyone else have a particular dark horse to make the big club out of training camp?

From the talk this off-season Thrun

 

[landshark]

Yeah my company has an unlimited policy. I took time off for the draft and about a week for a vacation. I have not really taken any other time off. Everything breaks when I leave and I have to spend a week working overtime to fix it. Still can’t get a raise though.

LOL, preach!!!

 

[WTFetus]

In ontario we have 2 kinds of things like PTO i guess, we get vacation time (company literally gives you like 14 days off a year to use, some allow you to bank them some don't) or we get vacation pay (4% to 6% of your gross pay put into an account basically to be used at a later date. Again some allow you to bank it for as long as you want or some make you take it before the new year.)

14 days of annual vacation is pretty rough, even if you're only counting Monday-Friday.

 

[Mattb124]

I would be shocked if this is legal (at least in the US and certainly in CA). I've done payroll before, and the law is that you have to pay out accrued PTO (but not sick time), no matter what.

UTO policies have become pretty common in Silicon Valley, more so with smaller tech firms. Employees at companies who have an unlimited PTO policy do not accrue PTO and resultingly do not get paid out for unused PTO if the leave the company. It is a way for companies to manage down their liabilities by not having those accrued hours on the books. There are studies which suggest employees of companies with an UTO policy actually take less time off than those who accrue PTO, so it appears that employers win on all fronts.

 

[hohosaregood]

Yeah my company has an unlimited policy. I took time off for the draft and about a week for a vacation. I have not really taken any other time off. Everything breaks when I leave and I have to spend a week working overtime to fix it. Still can’t get a raise though.


From the talk this off-season Thrun

My last company didn't have unlimited PTO but there were a few guys who would kinda complain brag about how busy it's been and how we didn't have time to take PTO, including myself at times. Granted, I basically only worked there during the covid years so there wasn't exactly anything to take time off for.

I do have an unlimited policy at my current job and people in my group definitely take advantage of it when they can. My manager is taking his 2nd 3 week trip this year for example.

 

[landshark]

UTO policies have become pretty common in Silicon Valley, more so with smaller tech firms. Employees at companies who have an unlimited PTO policy do not accrue PTO and resultingly do not get paid out for unused PTO if the leave the company. It is a way for companies to manage down their liabilities by not having those accrued hours on the books. There are studies which suggest employees of companies with an UTO policy actually take less time off than those who accrue PTO, so it appears that employers win on all fronts.

Can confirm, I take less PTO than I would if I had a bucket with a cap. Soon as the cap is hit it's time to go on vacation so I can continue to accrue. It's weird, but accurate.

 

[sharski]

Whenever they confirm their unlimited PTO policy, I always ask how much time off have other people on the team taken in the past year to see what their implied expectations are

I also am v upfront with them that I consider unlimited time off to be 8 weeks off per year (2 weeks off in summer, 2 weeks off in December, and a 4-day weekend every month the rest of the year)

I'm definitely the DGAF-mode asshole on the team

 

[OrrNumber4]

My last company didn't have unlimited PTO but there were a few guys who would kinda complain brag about how busy it's been and how we didn't have time to take PTO, including myself at times. Granted, I basically only worked there during the covid years so there wasn't exactly anything to take time off for.

Would they complain or would they brag?

I do have an unlimited policy at my current job and people in my group definitely take advantage of it when they can. My manager is taking his 2nd 3 week trip this year for example.

Sounds like your manager is a smart cookie.

I also am v upfront with them that I consider unlimited time off to be 8 weeks off per year (2 weeks off in summer, 2 weeks off in December, and a 4-day weekend every month the rest of the year)

I'm definitely the DGAF-mode asshole on the team

Not a good mentality to have. You're the work-to-live-mode non-Pejorative Slur on the team.

 

[Sendhelplease]

Okay okay. Back on topic. Anyone else have a particular dark horse to make the big club out of training camp?

Nikita Okhotiuk

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Nikita Okhotiuk

Good call. There has been lots of talk here about the log jam at forward but not much talk about the bigger log jam on D. We have talked about the Sharks 8 defensemen: Vlasic, Benning, Ferraro, Rutta, Simek, Knyzhov, Burroughs, and MacDonald. MacDonald clearly looks like the odd man out. We have promising young guys like Thrun and Muk who are waiver exempt if they don’t make the team. We also went out and got Okhotiuk, Gawanke, and Pulli who are not waiver exempt. There is going to be a big battle for roster spots on D in camp and we will be exposing some of the losers to waivers. Are they really going to expose guys they just traded for to waivers or could the Sharks top 7 be penciled in as Vlasic, Benning, Rutta, Ferraro, Burroughs, Okhotiuk, and Gawanke.

 

[Cas]

Good call. There has been lots of talk here about the log jam at forward but not much talk about the bigger log jam on D. We have talked about the Sharks 8 defensemen: Vlasic, Benning, Ferraro, Rutta, Simek, Knyzhov, Burroughs, and MacDonald. MacDonald clearly looks like the odd man out. We have promising young guys like Thrun and Muk who are waiver exempt if they don’t make the team. We also went out and got Okhotiuk, Gawanke, and Pulli who are not waiver exempt. There is going to be a big battle for roster spots on D in camp and we will be exposing some of the losers to waivers. Are they really going to expose guys they just traded for to waivers or could the Sharks top 7 be penciled in as Vlasic, Benning, Rutta, Ferraro, Burroughs, Okhotiuk, and Gawanke.

Pulli is exempt from waivers.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Good call. There has been lots of talk here about the log jam at forward but not much talk about the bigger log jam on D. We have talked about the Sharks 8 defensemen: Vlasic, Benning, Ferraro, Rutta, Simek, Knyzhov, Burroughs, and MacDonald. MacDonald clearly looks like the odd man out. We have promising young guys like Thrun and Muk who are waiver exempt if they don’t make the team. We also went out and got Okhotiuk, Gawanke, and Pulli who are not waiver exempt. There is going to be a big battle for roster spots on D in camp and we will be exposing some of the losers to waivers. Are they really going to expose guys they just traded for to waivers or could the Sharks top 7 be penciled in as Vlasic, Benning, Rutta, Ferraro, Burroughs, Okhotiuk, and Gawanke.

Imo Simek is the odd one out. MacDonald looked serviceable last year and would be a fine #7.

 

[Xirik]

I think Muk should start in the NHL this season unless he has a very bad camp. He did great in the KHL and then came over for a brief stint in the AHL and blew the competition away with getting 10pts in 12 games. To me its seems pretty clear that going from the KHL to AHL is a downgrade in competition, Its better for him to play with the Sharks.

I hope that Muk gets some pp action and the Sharks have two defenceman on it. Shakir has a great shot from the upper circle and I'd like him to be able to get it off.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think Muk should start in the NHL this season unless he has a very bad camp. He did great in the KHL and then came over for a brief stint in the AHL and blew the competition away with getting 10pts in 12 games. To me its seems pretty clear that going from the KHL to AHL is a downgrade in competition, Its better for him to play with the Sharks.

I hope that Muk gets some pp action and the Sharks have two defenceman on it. Shakir has a great shot from the upper circle and I'd like him to be able to get it off.

Really hope this happens, we desperately need young potential player on the blue line. There IS too many LD that If he has any capability to play RD, he could immediately take a spot.

 

[Bleedred]

I was mistakenly believing Vlasic's contract was through 2025, until I was reminded earlier in the offseason that he still has THREE years remaining, thus it will end in 2026.

Even though I clearly remember him (and Jones lol) getting extended on like July 2nd, a whole 364 days before their then-contracts were to expire. Maybe it wasn't 2nd, but it was definitely very early July.

It irritated me at the time, because when Burns got his extension the year before, he got it in like February, just 4 or 5 months before he would have been UFA. And Vlasic and Jones got them about as soon as they could. Vlasic was already coming off his first down year (and was already 30 and the contract was kicking in just a few months before he was to turn 32) and Jones was coming off a pretty whatever year compared to his first year here. It was still a pretty good year relative any year he would have on that next contract though.

I was always for waiting until sometime during that 17-18 season to extend them, just like Burns the year before. In Jones case, he probably would have gotten the same deal (or maybe even slightly higher AAV or possible an extra year) as he had a pretty solid season in 17-18. Vlasic did not, and his decline would continue.

 

[Erep]

I think Muk should start in the NHL this season unless he has a very bad camp. He did great in the KHL and then came over for a brief stint in the AHL and blew the competition away with getting 10pts in 12 games. To me its seems pretty clear that going from the KHL to AHL is a downgrade in competition, Its better for him to play with the Sharks.

I hope that Muk gets some pp action and the Sharks have two defenceman on it. Shakir has a great shot from the upper circle and I'd like him to be able to get it off.

No other defensemen on the Sharks roster, with Karlsson gone, could hope to put up 10 points in 12 AHL games. I think people are really underselling how ready he is. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the top d man in camp. (I know Gawanke is close-ish, but Muk is way more 2-way).


I don't know how things will play out in camp, but the main thing I want to see from Grier is no regard for waiver status. I know he wants to flip guys like Hoffman, Rutta, Granlund, and whoever, but if they are not clearly making the Sharks, then there is no way you are going to be able to meaningfully pump their value. And don't hesitate to waive Simek, Labanc, MacDonald, or Lindblom, and the like, if they don't belong. None of them are getting claimed, and even if they were who cares. These are all guys who you are just waiting for their contracts to expire anyways.

 

[Barrie22]

Just a quick early update on KHL results for this past draft.

Michkov not starting the KHL year off good, 4 games in and he has been scratched for 3 of them. And 0 points in the game he played.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I was mistakenly believing Vlasic's contract was through 2025, until I was reminded earlier in the offseason that he still has THREE years remaining, thus it will end in 2026.

Even though I clearly remember him (and Jones lol) getting extended on like July 2nd, a whole 364 days before their then-contracts were to expire. Maybe it wasn't 2nd, but it was definitely very early July.

It irritated me at the time, because when Burns got his extension the year before, he got it in like February, ju4 or 5 months before he would have been UFA. And Vlasic and Jones got them about as soon as they could. Vlasic was already coming off his first down year (and was already 30 and the contract was kicking in just a few months before he was to turn 32) and Jones was coming off a pretty whatever year compared to his first year here. It was still a pretty good year relative any year he would have on that next contract though.

I was always for waiting until sometime during that 17-18 season to extend them, just like Burns the year before. In Jones case, he probably would have gotten the same deal (or maybe even slightly higher AAV or possible an extra year) as he had a pretty solid season in 17-18. Vlasic did not, and his decline would continue.

Vlasic was getting that deal regardless of his play that season. DW would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Just a quick early update on KHL results for this past draft.

Michkov not starting the KHL year off good, 4 games in and he has been scratched for 3 of them. And 0 points in the game he played.

Eh, let's not be that fanbase. Michkov was never even a Shark so celebrating his failure seems excessive.