Speculation: 2022-23 Roster Building, Trade Rumors & Free Agents VII

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Thorton was a good fourth liner and I just mentioned two. Read.

and Ryan Reaves is 40 goal scorer year in and year out..... why is he changing teams YEAR IN AND year out answer the question

 

[quietbruinfan]

and Ryan Reaves is 40 goal scorer year in and year out..... why is he changing teams YEAR IN AND year out answer the question

He changes about every 2.5 years which is not that far below average. Distort much?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

He changes about every 2.5 years which is not that far below average. Distort much?

you're the one who brought him up, dude.... the point is the enforcer mentality is GONE...... just like the NHL Wanted it to, even though teams still market the enforcer mentality

 

[quietbruinfan]

you're the one who brought him up, dude.... the point is the enforcer mentality is GONE...... just like the NHL Wanted it to, even though teams still market the enforcer mentality

The point is DUDE. The enforcer mentality is not gone and will not be until fighting is banned in junior and above. That day may come, but is by no means here. The NHL actually likes intimidating dirty teams like the Caps because they put fannies in the seats.

 

[Fenian24]

There may be a few other team, who knows. Would hope the Bruins kick the tires on him though as our RD depth is lacking. As for Lucic, maybe he did, I didn't watch every CGY game and they don't track "no thanks" as an NHL stat



So then since there is no real way to quantify "tough" the enitre topic is subjective.

I don't know, hits may be subjective but penalties are not. If you look at a players matching penalties that were roughs and fights and figure out a way to quantify those into other stats for for your WAR number i think it would increase the value of Jeannots, Middletons, etc over the numbers that are now being looked at.

There has to be some way to have analytics measure a players physical play as a positive. My issue with analytics is how possession based it is and discounts other parts of the game. Hockey isn't soccer or baseball where numbers do tell more of a story. As you say they don't track "no thanks" but that is part of intimidation which is still a part of the game.

 

[GordonHowe]

It's just tough to tell watching Cassidy's Bruins. Watch a Nashville-Minnesota game or Florida and Tampa, it's a different game.

Hopefully with Cassidy gone the Bruins will implement a more physical style, adding AJ Greer and letting Frederic play (even if he takes a bad penalty) is a good start.

Not certain how physical the Stars were under Montgomery. FWIW, he's stated that he likes to ice a physical team. So, that's encouraging.

Reading a bit about AJ Greer, my impression is that he's an offensive player, not a bruiser. Am I wrong?

Finally, Frederic better knock it off with those stupid, often selfish penalties. That stuff is not going to cut it going forward. He's been in the league for a few years now.

I like Trent, and believe JM will be very good for his confidence. The second guessing under Cassidy will not be an issue. If Sweeney meddled last season, I hope that stops, too.

Remember, he's a natural center. That's a cerebral position, so I don't think Frederic is stupid.

We'll see how good he can be.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The point is DUDE. The enforcer mentality is not gone and will not be until fighting is banned in junior and above. That day may come, but is by no means here. The NHL actually likes intimidating dirty teams like the Caps because they put fannies in the seats.

yes it is:


it's already occurred..... name the last NHL Game that had 4 fights in 4 seconds and that continued every minute all the way through..... fact is doesn't the NHL warn teams once one melee breaks out

Washington isn't intimidating and is skilled/finesse more so than Boston has ever been

 

[Fenian24]

Not certain how physical the Stars were under Montgomery. FWIW, he's stated that he likes to ice a physical team. So, that's encouraging.

Reading a bit about AJ Greer, my impression is that he's an offensive player, not a bruiser. Am I wrong?

Finally, Frederic better knock it off with those stupid, often selfish penalties. That stuff is not going to cut it going forward. He's been in the league for a few years now.

I like Trent, and believe JM will be very good for his confidence. The second guessing under Cassidy will not be an issue. If Sweeney meddled last season, I hope that stops, too.

Remember, he's a natural center. That's a cerebral position, so I don't think Frederic is stupid.

We'll see how good he can be.

Some of his "antics" penalties absolutely need to stop but it has to be tough to be told to be physical but don't ever retaliate or miss a defensive assignment and if you do you are benched and then scratched for a few games. Cassidy getting canned should help Frederic immensely.

you're the one who brought him up, dude.... the point is the enforcer mentality is GONE...... just like the NHL Wanted it to, even though teams still market the enforcer mentality

 

[quietbruinfan]

yes it is:


it's already occurred..... name the last NHL Game that had 4 fights in 4 seconds and that continued every minute all the way through..... fact is doesn't the NHL warn teams once one melee breaks out

Washington isn't intimidating and is skilled/finesse more so than Boston has ever been

That is something that is plainly false and frankly foolish. You might want to delete it.

 

[ON3M4N]

I don't know, hits may be subjective but penalties are not. If you look at a players matching penalties that were roughs and fights and figure out a way to quantify those into other stats for for your WAR number i think it would increase the value of Jeannots, Middletons, etc over the numbers that are now being looked at.

There has to be some way to have analytics measure a players physical play as a positive. My issue with analytics is how possession based it is and discounts other parts of the game. Hockey isn't soccer or baseball where numbers do tell more of a story. As you say they don't track "no thanks" but that is part of intimidation which is still a part of the game.

So we're going to quantify toughness based on a refs opinion on what a roughing penalty is? The same refs we complain about being wildly inconsistent night in and night out?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

That is something that is plainly false and frankly foolish. You might want to delete it.

Washington isn't intimidating..... then how come they're successful in the physical style but skilled/finesse as well..... this isn't the Big Bad Bruin/Broad Street Bullies era, and Philadelphia markets the same way Boston does and what exactly have they done.....remember Providence and Portland grew up in that mentality too, especially 1977-79, when Portland was known as the Spring Street Bullies, see the correlation

 

[quietbruinfan]

Washington isn't intimidating..... then how come they're successful in the physical style but skilled/finesse as well..... this isn't the Big Bad Bruin/Broad Street Bullies era, and Philadelphia markets the same way Boston does and what exactly have they done.....remember Providence and Portland grew up in that mentality too, especially 1977-79, when Portland was known as the Spring Street Bullies, see the correlation

You either misread my post and put a not in there or you cannot see that the Caps are both vicious and skilled.

 

[GordonHowe]

Some of his "antics" penalties absolutely need to stop but it has to be tough to be told to be physical but don't ever retaliate or miss a defensive assignment and if you do you are benched and then scratched for a few games. Cassidy getting canned should help Frederic immensely.

Agreed. Mistakes happen, and you can't be afraid to make them on occasion. Doing so can really mess with a young player's head.

I think Montgomery and the revamped coaching staff will prove a signficant tonic for guys like Frederic, prospects finding their footing, and even veteran players.

Don't know how far this will take them, but as previously noted, I believe it will be an interesting, entertaining season.

Upon Bergeron and DK's exit, we'll have to eat our peas. That's going to be interesting, too.

In the meantime, enjoy the swan song and let's see what they've got. I daresay I'm excited to find out.

You either misread my post and put a not in there or you cannot see that the Caps are both vicious and skilled.

They're also old, tee-hee.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

You either misread my post and put a not in there or you cannot see that the Caps are both vicious and skilled.

and you bring up that Boston markets that way.... but what I'm saying is that era is gonzo..... no teams are that way you're telling me that Hershey and South Carolina share that mentality that Washington plays not exactly accurate

 

[Fenian24]

So we're going to quantify toughness based on a refs opinion on what a roughing penalty is? The same refs we complain about being wildly inconsistent night in and night out?

This is a valid point. I was just trying to think of a way for analytics to quantify toughness/physical hockey

 

[Jorah Marshmont]

It’s officially “sign leftover UFAs for league minimum” season.
Perfect time to trade Reilly and replace him with Subban/Stralman/Beaulieu/Dekeyser

 

[jgatie]

yes it is:


it's already occurred..... name the last NHL Game that had 4 fights in 4 seconds and that continued every minute all the way through..... fact is doesn't the NHL warn teams once one melee breaks out

Washington isn't intimidating and is skilled/finesse more so than Boston has ever been

I already gave you the bolded, Rangers/Caps had 3 fights off the faceoff, and 6 fights in the first 5 minutes. Now stop your nonsense.

 

[TD Charlie]

I don't know that the enforcer role, or attitude on the team is required to win, but I still am a firm believer that it can mask deficiencies in the playoffs. It helps to have a little bit of an edge, or a few guys on the team that can come unhinged at any moment. Either that, or at least be ready and willing to take a beating throughout the playoffs.

 

[GordonHowe]

This is a valid point. I was just trying to think of a way for analytics to quantify toughness/physical hockey

I know many here love them, but as an old gasbag, I hate analytics.

 

[ON3M4N]

This is a valid point. I was just trying to think of a way for analytics to quantify toughness/physical hockey

I've thought about it myself and even have DM'd Dom to get his feedback about a way to measure toughness/tough to play against. Unfortunately it seems like it'll always be something that is subjective.

 

[DominicT]

I've thought about it myself and even have DM'd Dom to get his feedback about a way to measure toughness/tough to play against. Unfortunately it seems like it'll always be something that is subjective.

Right now, the NHL defines a hit as body contact that separates the opposition from the puck or impedes his movement with the puck or of the puck.

Here's the wacky part. A player is considered to be in possession of the puck if he was last in possession of the puck. In other words, If Connor Clifton makes a pass and is hit while the pass is on its way to say Charlie McAvoy, Clifton is in possession of the puck until McAvoy receives the pass.

In that situation, Clifton was neither separated from the puck nor was the movement of the puck impeded because of the body contact.

So, is that a hit? Not by the criteria the league sets.

Should it be a hit? Hell yes.

I don't know that there is any way of fixing this. I remember our conversation and have spoken to hockey people much smarter then me that a) don't like the way it's measured today but b) don't know how to fix it.

 

[Fenian24]

I know many here love them, but as an old gasbag, I hate analytics.

I look at them as a measure of last resort but if the Bruins are looking at a player i know nothing about I find Jfresh easy to follow player samples helpful.

That said any system that tells me Matt Grzelcyk and Danton Heinen are above average hockey players has a lot of flaws to it.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I know many here love them, but as an old gasbag, I hate analytics.

I don't completely write them off. I trust analytic departments for professional teams.

It's the people on sites like this one that look at JFresh charts all day every day as their source to judge a player. I'm not saying JFresh is dumb or that his charts are meaningless, but I think people need to relax a little bit with them. Doesn't help that JFresh is an arrogant prick himself as well.

 

[Gee Wally]

please continue here:

Speculation: - 2022-23 Roster Building, Trade Rumors & Free Agents VIII

Please continue.....and a reminder watch the flaming folks.

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