No, Simon Nemec has not been good enough to replace a guy who finished top 6 in norris voting last year, and Damon severson,
And Regressions from Siegenthaler, Marino, and Mercer
And all the injuries.
And the goaltender's inability to make saves.
2022 1st round redraft
- Thread starter Ana Crusis
- Start date
No, Simon Nemec has not been good enough to replace a guy who finished top 6 in norris voting last year, and Damon severson,
And Regressions from Siegenthaler, Marino, and Mercer
And all the injuries.
And the goaltender's inability to make saves.
Attachments
Guys, just accept this is all just opinion. These are both great players and fit is quite important for both of them right now. I'm sure either one would make any team better. I'll give both MTL and NJ credit for being able to sift through the players in what was supposed to be a "bad" draft to pick top notch players. AZ did a nice job as well. None of this means other players won't progress. I certainly expect Jiricek to improve over the next season.
Only NJD fans would consider Nemec to be the best player from the draft. The rest of HF would pick Slaf or Cooley.
Wey well said. Exuberant is sugar coating it though!
SergeConstantin74
Always right.
- Jul 7, 2007
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Only NJD fans would consider Nemec to be the best player from the draft. The rest of HF would pick Slaf or Cooley.
Wey well said. Exuberant is sugar coating it though!
It happens consistently where people underrate young, quality dmen when compared to young, quality forwards who are racking up PP points.
Slaf, I can see the argument for being better.
I'd value the even strength play of nemec over the power play results of Slaf.
And the fact that Nemec does not have a MASSIVE penalty problem like Slaf does
Cooley, not a chance.
34 of Slaf's 48 points is EV. That's not racking up PP points. And he still has 4 x games remaining.
Massive penalty problem? hahaha. That's grasping at any minor issue you can find to denigrate a player. Like that's a permanent issue that can't be corrected...
Bottom line - i take the guy who has been producing at a 70pt pace since Dec 15. A guy who still is raw and has a lot of room for improvement. A guy who has been developing at an astronomical pace, as 1OA's do. A guy who is 6'3, 240lbs and still does not have his man-strength.
I remember NJD fans pissed when the Habs selected him 1OA. NJD had their hearts set on Slaf and now i see why!
I think you underrate Cooley who is having a fantastic rookie season.
34 of Slaf's 48 points is EV. That's not racking up PP points. And he still has 4 x games remaining.
Massive penalty problem? hahaha. That's grasping at any minor issue you can find to denigrate a player. Like that's a permanent issue that can't be corrected...
Bottom line - i take the guy who has been producing at a 70pt pace since Dec 15. A guy who still is raw and has a lot of room for improvement. A guy who has been developing at an astronomical pace, as 1OA's do. A guy who is 6'3, 240lbs and still does not have his man-strength.
I remember NJD fans pissed when the Habs selected him 1OA. NJD had their hearts set on Slaf and now i see why!
I think you underrate Cooley who is having a fantastic rookie season.
Juraj Slafkovsky has a penalty differential of 26 as a forward.
Here is a complete list of forwards with a worse penalty differential this year:
Ryan Strome, Erik Haula, Kevin Stenslund, Martin Pospisil, Andrei Svechnikov, Dimitri Voronkov.
It is a significant problem. I agree he can improve upon it. That doesn't make it not an issue
His "astronomical development" is literally just a change in situation.
If you want to look at Slafkovsky getting 4 minutes a night on the power play (and putting up the exact same results as Monahan, Newhook, Dach in that role. Improvement over josh anderson tho, so that's good) and playing with Caufield and Suzuki, go ahead.
His metrics have not changed much. individual chance generation is similar, defensive metrics similar.
Now I'm sure you'll interpret this as some massive slight on Slaf, instead of what it is, which is acknowledging the quality of his play all year, as well as the situational impact of the pieces around him
I think to claim some massive improvement is very disrespectful towards his play early in the year, as well as a significant underrating of both Suzuki and Caufield.
Again, you seem to for some reason think I have something against Slafkovsky. I don't, I think he's an excellent young player.
His metrics have changed massively. The most important metric - point production. That's the most important measurable of a player.
No you can point to his teammates or PP time. But you also discount the fact that Slaf has made Cole Caufield and Suzuki better players by virtue of the work he does on their line. He is a key reason the top line has become a serious threat since December.
But keep ignoring the facts and point to irrelevant details like penalty problems! None of that changes the fact he's producing better than anyone in his draft year and has solidified himself as the rightful 1OA.
Meanwhile you completely ignore Cooley's season which has been far more noticeable than Nemec.
1. Slaf
2. Cooley
3. Nemec
Nemec hasn't done anything to knock Slaf off his pedestal. And of course you ignore Cooley...
Again, it seems that you are unable to look beyond anything but points.
Suzuki-Caufield-Slaf have an expected goal differential of +2.3 in 700 minutes together. 51.7%
How "insignificant" are the penalties? Well, based on a league average of 21% on the PP, Slaf, through penalties alone, has cost his team 2.73 goal differential. With how atrocious the habs are on special teams, it's probably significantly more in reality. (and ideally, you'd like your star forwards to be drawing penalties than they take). So any advantage created by that line is wasted by Slafkovsky's penalties.
If you think being one of the worst forwards in hockey in terms of penalty differential is a "minor issue", I don't know what to say.
Cooley has had a good season. It's quite a ways behind Nemec.
Unfortunately for Nemec, since NJD has Luke Hughes QBing the power play, he is unable to rack up power play points.
If Nemec was the one back there, it wouldn't have made him or NJD any better, but hey, it would have racked up some counting stats for nemec because anything beyond that is too complicated to think about for some people.
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Penalties are insignificant at this early stage in Slaf's career because it is easily fixable. Its not a talent issue or a physical weakness. He's careless with his stick. That's easily fixable.
The fact that you bring it up in some attempt to lower Slaf's accomplishments is comical and demonstrates how weak your argument (or their lack of) is.
Cooley has had a very noticeable season. Far more noticeable than Nemec who is in the top-4 only because of Hamilton's injury...
If it's easily fixable why hasn't he fixed it yet?
It was a problem last year too.
Again, if your definition of "noticeable" is looking at points, sure.
Simon Nemec has been the best dman on NJD and has had excellent results.
NJD was planning, for cap and development reasons, to have nemec play 23 minutes a night in the AHL, getting PP1 and PK1 time, instead of 16 minutes a night for NJD. This would have slid his entry level contract another year and helped NJD's cap situation next year.
Then Hamilton got hurt, and the opportunity opened up. Nemec took it, and has been excellent ever since.
Because Slaf is 19 years old. You think he's a permanent penalty problem?? He has the offseason to watch tape and discuss discipline. What an idiotic argument - penalties.... LOL
Cooley is noticeable not because of his points. He's noticeable because he drives play and has earned the 2C spot on the Coyotes. He hasn't relied on someone to get injured to take that spot...
Start a thread and make a rule (no Habs / NJD fans) and see what a re-draft looks like from HF fans!
Llewzaher
Registered User
Cooley at the start of the year was forced to work in the D side of the game..they dropped him to the 4th line.34 of Slaf's 48 points is EV. That's not racking up PP points. And he still has 4 x games remaining.
Massive penalty problem? hahaha. That's grasping at any minor issue you can find to denigrate a player. Like that's a permanent issue that can't be corrected...
Bottom line - i take the guy who has been producing at a 70pt pace since Dec 15. A guy who still is raw and has a lot of room for improvement. A guy who has been developing at an astronomical pace, as 1OA's do. A guy who is 6'3, 240lbs and still does not have his man-strength.
I remember NJD fans pissed when the Habs selected him 1OA. NJD had their hearts set on Slaf and now i see why!
I think you underrate Cooley who is having a fantastic rookie season.
BA in an interview said he would have more points , but they wanted it to not be at the expense of Defence ..
In the last few months he has been playing real well .. stripping pucks away , setting up or scoring while always being the first forward back and worked his way up to the 2nd line.
I will say I wasn’t in agreement with this move as the reason he was drafted at 3 wasn’t because of his defensive play.but his offensive play. . but I think it has made him a better player over all. He has really picked it up lately and I think he has a great future. He had a massive negative plus-minus and has whittled it down to -9
Slaf competition at RW: Josh Anderson, Joel Armia, RHP
Cooley competition at C: Alex Kerfoot (Cooley has not beaten out kerfoot yet lmao), Jack McBain, Nick Bjustad
Nemec competition at RD: Dougie Hamilton, John Marino, Colin Miller
Yep, Simon Nemec couldn't beat out Dougie Hamilton so clearly that makes Slaf better for beating out Josh f***ing Anderson
If NJD drafted slaf you'd be here criticizing him because he'd have been behind Bratt and Toffoli on RW
Did I say it was a permanent issue?
We were talking about this current season were we not? This season. Juraj Slafkovsky has a very significant penalty problem. Being one of the worst penalty offenders in the league significantly impacts your value
If/when he fixes said issue, it will no longer be an issue. Until then it is.
You'd think Nemec, in his first year of NHL hockey playing a position much more prone to take penalties would be the one getting more penalties, but no.
Slaf was put in a position to succeed and he has more than succeeded. He has made the top-line a bonafide 1st line since Dec. You can't knock him because he has been successful in the top-line role
Nemec got the top-4 spot because of injuries and despite that has performed well. On pretty much any average / below-average NHL team, Nemec would not be in the top-4.
Cooley earned his spot on 2C and is producing and driving play. You ignore how well he had done this season. He's easily #2 in a re-draft and nipping at Slaf's heels.
If Slaf's penalties is the reason why you would pick Nemec over him then you need to give your head a shake! In a young player's scouting report, you don't see "Penalty issues" as a key issue. That's weak and you know it! LOL
I pick Nemec over him because nemec has been better this year, plays a more valuable position, and I like his upside more.
Nemec would 100% be on the top 4 on most teams. Speaking of slaf and cooley, Nemec would have been the very clear 1RD on both of those teams.
Neither Cooley or Slaf would be playing in NJDs top 6. (Both would have probably been in the AHL until injuries occurred as well)
Please name these teams Nemec wouldn't be in the top 4 of?
I pick Slaf because his development curve has been parabolic and he is producing at a higher rate than another player in the draft. His ceiling is higher than any player in that draft.
I pick Cooley 2nd because he has been driving play and producing while playing C. He has massive upside / talent.
I put Nemec 3rd as he has done ok in a top-4 role. Not producing offensively but playing solid. He has upside. But he hasn't stood out like Cooley / Slaf. A good pick at #3.
There are few teams that would have Nemec at the #4D spot. No team that is competing for the playoffs would have Nemec in the top-4 except maybe Edmonton (Ceci sucks).
And yet Nemec has clearly the best analytics.
It's very clear your definition of "producing" involves nothing more than looking at point totals.
I challenge you to name 32 RHD better than Nemec. Since apparently he isn't a top pairing RD.
Analytics are meaningless when the players in question are producing offensively (Cooley and Slaf). Your analytics are just an excuse for players that are not producing (e.g. Holtz). Using penalties as a key differentiator shows you are grasping at straws! lol
Not gonna waste time naming 32 RHD better than Nemec. He wouldn't be top-4 on well over half the teams in the league. He's not there yet. He will be soon.
Let's go through the teams:
Yes:
Toronto, Tampa, Washington, Detroit, Philly, NJD, Buffalo, Ottawa, Montreal, CBJ, Winnipeg, Edmonton,
Nashville, STL, Seattle, Calgary, Arizona, Anaheim, Chicago, SJS, Vancouver
Maybe:
NYR,Dallas,LAK,Minnesota (if you count spurgeon, otherwise yes easily),Pitt, NYI
No:
Boston, Florida, Carolina, Colorado, VGK.
32 would be top pairing Dman.
Claiming "he wouldn't be top-4 on well over half the teams in the league" would be claiming 50+ dman. Shouldn't be too hard
This is a wasted exercise as you are overrating Nemec terribly. He wouldn't be on the top-4 of over half the teams in the league. He's not that good yet. But i am glad you are over-exuberant. You make a good NJD fan!
He would be top-4 on Montreal though as the Habs RHD is not good. That's for sure!
He just doesn't have the dynamic game breaking ability that Slaf and Cooley have.
Translation: You looked exclusively at point totals.This is a wasted exercise as you are overrating Nemec terribly. But i am glad you are over-exuberant. You make a good NJD fan!
He would be top-4 on Montreal though as the Habs RHD is not good. That's for sure!
He just doesn't have the dynamic game breaking ability that Slaf and Cooley have.
Translation, i have seen him play and get exposed.
You have to admit - Slaf and Cooley are dynamic players. Nemec... not so much. I see Roman Hamrlik type of career in Nemec.
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