Prospect Info: 2021 NHL Draft Prospects - part II

TheDuke93

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Broberg was one of the biggest and fastest D in the 2019 draft, and he certainly had the best combination of the two -- though Byram plays faster and Seider plays bigger. But Broberg had several questions with his decision-making which were not asked nearly enough, possibly because of things I keep saying about how "hockey IQ" -- elusive as it is to quantify -- is often replaced with pre-conceived notions which are based entirely on bulls--t I can't even begin to fathom.

The 2018 draft had a defenseman I loved and ranked #10 overall (his highest rating) in K'Andre Miller -- who combined an elite size/skating combo with high-end smarts and compete level. Miller had only been switched back from F to D by the US Development system two years prior, and had a few issues with gap control and positioning. Yet, many draft analysts were still asking questions to the degree of "can he ever grasp the nuances of playing defense?" and ranking him as low as the early second round.

One year later, you had Broberg who played defense his entire life and had the same strengths and weaknesses as Miller, but did not pass as precisely or display the same level of decision-making. But Broberg was Swedish -- which is often seen as a big plus point in the hockey IQ column, as opposed to Miller, who faced an entirely different set of criteria in that respect which I don't even have the patience to get into. Broberg routinely had top 10 rankings, and the general consensus was "when he figures it out he will be a superstar defenseman" as opposed to the prevailing attitude with Miller of "can he figure it out?"

Skip to the 2020 draft. The Devils were routinely slammed in the media for the #20 overall pick of LD Shakir Mukhamadullin -- a huge, high-upside player who looked out of his league in the KHL at times and certainly struggled with the nuances of the position despite amazing passing and shooting capabilities. Again, Russians are not seen by several people as being high IQ/high effort hockey players -- something which has been subtly or overtly questioned by North American hockey TV analysts from Mike Milbury to Don Cherry to Pierre McGuire.

Cut to the 2021 WJC tournament. K'Andre Miller has already established himself as a terrific young defenseman at the NHL level -- he just enjoyed a great rookie season for the Rangers. Shakir Mukhamadullin was the best defenseman for a strong Team Russia, probably one of the top 5 D in the WJC tournament. Broberg was a devastating disappointment for a Team Sweden which did not medal largely due to a blueline which was completely caved in by high-level opposing forwards. Team Finland's late goal which knocked Sweden out of the medal round was at least partially resulting from an inexplicable series of misplays by Broberg.

Now, my point is not that Broberg is a "bad player". I think he'll likely be a pretty good bottom-4 defenseman for Edmonton -- he covers a lot of ice and if you misplay him on the transition, he's gone in a step. My point is also not that Miller and Mukhamadullin will win multiple Norris Trophies -- right now I'd say Miller will at the very least be a long-time, two-way mid-pairing player, while Mukhamadullin still has a ton of development before he sees the NHL. My point is that you had three players with similar skill sets and questions regarding the elusive "hockey IQ" and, instead of doing more research, many prospect evaluators -- even high-profile ones -- resorted to relying on stereotypes which are so inaccurate as to border on the bizarre.

The stereotypes of defensemen often begin and end with size. If Cam York were 6'3-205 instead of 5'11-170 on his draft day and everything else were exactly the same, we can bet he would have been a top 10 pick. The same could be said of Ville Heinola. This year, we have Sean Behrens and Aleksi Heimosalmi, either of whom would doubtlessly be fighting for the top 15 if they were even 6'1-185.

Now, certainly size is beneficial to a defenseman. Part of the reason why a team wants a 6'6' Owen Power is because, with his excellent 4-way mobility, he covers so much ice simply by being on it that it's frustrating for an opposing offense to find passing and shooting lanes. And this is not even taking into account that it's nearly impossible to beat Power in a physical battle for pucks along the boards or in the crease.

So, we can bring all of these traditional arguments about defensemen and apply them to 2021. For instance, how do you rank a Corson Ceulemans against an Aleksi Heimosalmi at RD? Ceulemans absolutely destroys Heimosalmi in every physical category -- he's much bigger, faster, more physical, skates faster, shoots harder, you name it. But Heimosalmi's finest characteristics are more subtle -- he has an elite IQ and is a tremendous passer, his awareness plays up his very strong puck-handling and his decision making is outstanding. If I'm the Devils drafting at #21 and looking for a RD, I'd be very happy right now with either of these players. But if I'm the Devils drafting at #7 and Clarke is gone and I reach for one of them, I'm very unhappy -- there are just too many question marks with either player, and I vehemently do not believe in drafting a player with multiple "IFs" in the top 10.

Brandt Clarke is my top ranked RD for the entire 2021 draft, I have him at #2 overall. But he is not even a top 2 D in terms of athletic attributes at RD -- that would be Ceulemans and Scott Morrow -- a pair of very big, very fast kids with great shots. But the fact is that drafting the "bigger and faster player" over the "player who is better at hockey" has been the most oft-repeated mistake in the history of the NHL Draft. We saw it with Broberg in 2019, we saw it in 2018 with Filip Johansson over Rasmus Sandin, we saw it in 2017 with Lias Andersson at #7 overall, we saw it in 2016 with Jesse Puljujarvi over Matt Tkachuk -- we can go to literally every draft and see examples of how this philosophy failed, and we can just go ahead and call it "The Hugh Jessiman Rule".

It's a long post and I'll end it here, but I like my draft philosophy to be public knowledge more than trade secret, and I really analyze these things to an almost ridiculous degree.
I feel like athletic ability in hockey are by far the most overrated aspect when it comes to scouting. Certainly a player needs to be able to get around and some sort of a frame to add on to when drafting in the first 2 rounds in particular. But how many players don't go were their talent level says because their athletic ability doesn't match their performance?

Certainly size and speed matter to some extent because they are things you can't teach and bring up a players floor to some extent. Would Power be the consensus #1 overall pick if he was 6' foot even? I dare say he would drop out of the top 5 all together. He is certainly an outstanding prospect but I don't think he does anything all that better then Hughes or Clarke comparatively were I say man this guy is just flat out going to be better.

I think he is safer then Hughes but he is almost a whole year younger. I think he is definitively less talented then Clarke and Hughes in just about every offensive category. He probably has a better shot then Hughes but is worse everywhere else imo. He might be a better skater then Clarke but I have no clue here to be honest.

Defensively he is probably better then both in some regards but I don't think he is that much better at any one thing. He has better size and reach for sure but he doesn't use his size to the same extent that you would like from someone who is 6'6.

Ultimately if it was up to me I don't think I would draft Power before Clarke, Hughes or Beniers because I don't see the same sort of franchise altering ability that the other have. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be happy to draft him but I don't know if Power has the tools to become what people think he should be and comparing him to Hadman is not far to Power because no one is Hedman. Ultimately my philosophical approach drafting should be that you try to get the player who you think will become the best in the draft with a realistic chance of meeting their potential.

I think there are 10 guys who have I would say have higher ceilings then Power but only 4 or 5 that have a realistic shot of meeting those expectations. Those are the players that should go ahead of Power imo but most likely won't because I think too many scouting staffs are more scared to fail then dare to be great.
 
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Captain3rdLine

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Yet many talk about having one of the big three or draft will be bad...My point is if we take BPA we can't go wrong....One we are loaded on the left side so Clarke would be better from need POV but that said stay patient make the pick at our pick don't move up is my point...If BPA is Clarke and he's there fine take him trust the pros.....I did like Ceulemans play he was very noticeable on the ice.
Draft won’t be bad if we don’t take one of the big 3 but this is our chance to get a top end defencemen which is definitely our biggest need. We quite possibly won’t get another chance to get a top defencemen like this anytime soon so people are hoping we capitalize on this opportunity.

I don’t know why you keep saying we can’t go wrong. It’s probably easier to go wrong then right. At the end of the day some of these top guys aren’t going to turn out but if the player we pick does, getting a #1 dman would be much better than getting a top line winger. One because it’s by far our biggest need but also because top defencemen are much harder to find.
 

StevenToddIves

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I haven’t watched him in bit but I’ve never really seen him as that much of a liability defensively as far as I can remember. I don’t think Mukhammadullin’s offensive potential or overall potential is as high as Brobergs and I would take Broberg over him all day. I would have Miller and Broberg close but probably rather have Miller just because of the success he had in his first season and he seems much safer at this point. He also has some offense to him and a rocket of a shot from the point.

I took a lot of flak for ranking K'Andre Miller at #10 overall in 2018, so the topic is of particular interest to me. I don't think he had another top 15 ranking, and he was ranked as commonly in the second round as in the top 25. I am absolutely thrilled about his progression and feel K'Andre will be a tremendous defenseman in the NHL for a very long time. Similarly, I feel we need to closely scrutinize why a defenseman who displayed such intelligence and poise for the US-NTDP was consistently questioned for his ability to process the game to justify his extremely conservative consensus rankings.

The Mukhamadullin vs. Broberg debate is one I'll be happy to have now, and re-visit again in 5 years with you. I watched every game from the 2021 WJC (often multiple times), and there is no question that Mukhamadullin -- a full year younger -- was the better player of the two. In the Russia win over Sweden, Mukhamadullin was terrific, while the Russia coach made an effort to get RW Podkolzin out any shift he could against LD Broberg -- and what Podkolzin did to Broberg in that game was almost unfair, it was just a devastating mismatch. However, I agree that this singular tournament should not be considered the singular demarcation of who is the better prospect. Personally, I feel both players have a long way to go to carve out regular roles in the NHL. But if the 2020 draft were re-held now, Mukhamadullin would probably go a little later than his actual draft position of #20, while Broberg would have to be considered the most ill-advised pick of the 2019 draft, one spot ahead of Zegras, two ahead of Podkolzin, four ahead of Boldy and 7 ahead of Caufield. This is exacerbated by Edmonton's need for high-end wingers to play with McDavid and Draistaitl. Can you imagine Zegras alongside McDavid, or Caufield alongside Draisaitl? I mean, wow.
 

NjdevilfanJim

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Draft won’t be bad if we don’t take one of the big 3 but this is our chance to get a top end defencemen which is definitely our biggest need. We quite possibly won’t get another chance to get a top defencemen like this anytime soon so people are hoping we capitalize on this opportunity.

I don’t know why you keep saying we can’t go wrong. It’s probably easier to go wrong then right. At the end of the day some of these top guys aren’t going to turn out but if the player we pick does, getting a #1 dman would be much better than getting a top line winger. One because it’s by far our biggest need but also because top defencemen are much harder to find.

Exactly my point you can go wrong you don't trade up....Stay where the pick is ....plenty of drafts where Defenseman especially bust out.....Lot of free agents coming up and rhd are decent for next year.....When you start thinking these guys are our only chance for big time defenseman that's when mistakes happen....In this draft guys that have played will be more hyped other players will fall not world ending if we don't get one of the three......
 

Captain3rdLine

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Exactly my point you can go wrong you don't trade up....Stay where the pick is ....plenty of drafts where Defenseman especially bust out.....Lot of free agents coming up and rhd are decent for next year.....When you start thinking these guys are our only chance for big time defenseman that's when mistakes happen....In this draft guys that have played will be more hyped other players will fall not world ending if we don't get one of the three......
It’s very hard to find a long term #1 dman and expecting to get one in free agency certainly isn’t very likely or the way to go. I’m not saying to reach for one or that it’s world ending if we don’t get one of them. I just think this is a chance to fill our biggest need and a chance to get an elite #1 dman which is one of the hardest things to find in hockey. I will be perfectly fine if they take a forward but I’m hoping they’ll be able to get one of the D and that D turns out. I’d also be happy with Edvinsson if they think he’s the guy. I’ll trust the scouts.
 
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Captain3rdLine

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I took a lot of flak for ranking K'Andre Miller at #10 overall in 2018, so the topic is of particular interest to me. I don't think he had another top 15 ranking, and he was ranked as commonly in the second round as in the top 25. I am absolutely thrilled about his progression and feel K'Andre will be a tremendous defenseman in the NHL for a very long time. Similarly, I feel we need to closely scrutinize why a defenseman who displayed such intelligence and poise for the US-NTDP was consistently questioned for his ability to process the game to justify his extremely conservative consensus rankings.

The Mukhamadullin vs. Broberg debate is one I'll be happy to have now, and re-visit again in 5 years with you. I watched every game from the 2021 WJC (often multiple times), and there is no question that Mukhamadullin -- a full year younger -- was the better player of the two. In the Russia win over Sweden, Mukhamadullin was terrific, while the Russia coach made an effort to get RW Podkolzin out any shift he could against LD Broberg -- and what Podkolzin did to Broberg in that game was almost unfair, it was just a devastating mismatch. However, I agree that this singular tournament should not be considered the singular demarcation of who is the better prospect. Personally, I feel both players have a long way to go to carve out regular roles in the NHL. But if the 2020 draft were re-held now, Mukhamadullin would probably go a little later than his actual draft position of #20, while Broberg would have to be considered the most ill-advised pick of the 2019 draft, one spot ahead of Zegras, two ahead of Podkolzin, four ahead of Boldy and 7 ahead of Caufield. This is exacerbated by Edmonton's need for high-end wingers to play with McDavid and Draistaitl. Can you imagine Zegras alongside McDavid, or Caufield alongside Draisaitl? I mean, wow.
First I’ll say that I really liked Miller too. At the time I was hoping Dobson dropped to us and if not Miller was my second choice. I wasn’t even that interested in Smith.

I just don’t agree with you on the WJC. I wasn’t that impressed with Mukhammadullin. He wasn’t bad but he didn’t standout in any way. Made some good passes but also had some bad plays. He wasn’t dangerous offensively at all from my recollection and did solid defensively but wasn’t some physical beast defensively other than the odd hit here and there. I personally think he may be a straight shutdown guy when he gets to the NHL and don’t see much offensive potential. Broberg also had the odd mistake and wasn’t perfect defensively but you are completely over exaggerating in terms of “what Podkolzon did to Broberg” he certainly made things hard on Broberg and he created a goal driving wide on him and getting it on net before the rebound got put in but it wasn’t a “devastating mismatch” and he didn’t completely dominate him. You’re also completely assuming Russia’s coach was putting Podkolzin out against him. I’m actually pretty sure Sweden was the home team and would’ve had last change meaning it’s more likely Sweden’s coach was putting Broberg out against Podkolzin and their top line to shut them down. Broberg was good for Sweden throughout the tournament and continuously looked dangerous offensively when he had the puck and created opportunities.

I also thinks it’s far to early to call him the most I’ll-advised pick. Considering who went after him it could very well be, especially if he doesn’t turn out and Zegras and Podkolzin really do.
 
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FooteBahl

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So let's say we take Hughes with our first pick, would that completely negate the chance that we'd take Ceulemans with the Isles pick?
If he’s what our scouts have ranked as the BPA at the isles pick, then take him. We’d still be really thin at RD anyway
 

StevenToddIves

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So let's say we take Hughes with our first pick, would that completely negate the chance that we'd take Ceulemans with the Isles pick?

No, because Hughes is a LD and Ceulemans is a RD. I feel Aleksi Heimosalmi, another impressive young RD, is also a strong possibility with the Islanders pick. He's probably passed Scott Morrow as the consensus 3RD behind Clarke and Ceulemans. Heimosalmi could also be a guy you could trade down to the late 20s/early 30s and still get, while gaining a pick in the 2nd round. Ceulemans, however, might not even last until the #20 pick.
 

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Yet many talk about having one of the big three or draft will be bad...My point is if we take BPA we can't go wrong....One we are loaded on the left side so Clarke would be better from need POV but that said stay patient make the pick at our pick don't move up is my point...If BPA is Clarke and he's there fine take him trust the pros.....I did like Ceulemans play he was very noticeable on the ice.
We aren’t moving up. Assuming we’re 4th and get pushed back to 5th or 6th, then you’re talking about a trade that doesn’t really happen in the hard cap era. And it’s a trade we don’t really have the assets for unless Fitz is willing to spend an second 1st on one player. And you can’t offer less because other teams would probably just rather take the same top defensemen then so a late 2nd won’t do it. (And most of these teams have more non-blue chip prospects on contracts then they need already so those trade ideas don’t make sense either.)
 

Eggtimer

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Exactly my point you can go wrong you don't trade up....Stay where the pick is ....plenty of drafts where Defenseman especially bust out.....Lot of free agents coming up and rhd are decent for next year.....When you start thinking these guys are our only chance for big time defenseman that's when mistakes happen....In this draft guys that have played will be more hyped other players will fall not world ending if we don't get one of the three......
With all do respect , I’m going to have to disagree with you on this.
Getting a top pair D is virtually impossible except through the draft. The top 3 D are almost unanimously decided to be a tier above the other remaining D . I don’t feel that they are that likely to bust and their floor is still high enough where I’d rather have a for sure 3/4 D with top pairing potential than draft a winger that could also bust and have a bottom 6 floor.
If two of the three D are gone plus Beniers is gone , I absolutely look into the cost to move up to at least get the remaining one D.
 

Captain3rdLine

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With all do respect , I’m going to have to disagree with you on this.
Getting a top pair D is virtually impossible except through the draft. The top 3 D are almost unanimously decided to be a tier above the other remaining D . I don’t feel that they are that likely to bust and their floor is still high enough where I’d rather have a for sure 3/4 D with top pairing potential than draft a winger that could also bust and have a bottom 6 floor.
If two of the three D are gone plus Beniers is gone , I absolutely look into the cost to move up .
Yes a top pairing dman is harder to find and more valuable than a top line winger. It’s also our biggest need.
The only thing I’ll say here is that there are a decent amount of people and some of them highly respected that think Edvinsson is in the same tier as those 3 and might actually go higher than both Hughes and Clarke.
 

Blackjack

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With all do respect , I’m going to have to disagree with you on this.
Getting a top pair D is virtually impossible except through the draft.

People repeat this old wives tale but it just ain't so

Adam Fox - Traded
Devon Toews - Traded
Dougie Hamilton - Traded
Sam Girard - Traded
Shea Theodore - Traded
Mikhail Sergachev - Traded
Seth Jones - Traded
Brent Burns - Traded
Erik Karlsson - Traded
Alex Pietrangelo - Signed
Ryan Suter - Signed
 

Captain3rdLine

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People repeat this old wives tale but it just ain't so

Adam Fox - Traded
Devon Toews - Traded
Dougie Hamilton - Traded
Sam Girard - Traded
Shea Theodore - Traded
Mikhail Sergachev - Traded
Seth Jones - Traded
Brent Burns - Traded
Erik Karlsson - Traded
Alex Pietrangelo - Signed
Ryan Suter - Signed
This is a pretty good point but I will point out with these trades that quite a few of them were trades where the team was getting this defencemen before they were actually a top pairing defencemen. So they didn’t trade for an actual top pairing dman at the time. Some of them were traded as prospects and then became top defencemen. They pretty much all came at a substantial package and atleast one of them maybe more has turned out to be a bad trade for the team.

Dougie Hamilton was traded for Hanifin who was supposed to be a top pairing defencemen so it was essentially a swap. They don’t get him without already having drafted someone who was supposed to be a top pairing dman. Jones wasn’t really a top defencemen yet when he was traded as far as I know and they traded a young all-star center in johanson for him. NYR only got Adam Fox because he wanted to play for them and wouldn’t sign for Carolina and they were just trading for a high end d prospect at the time.

I’m not gonna go through them all but there’s a common theme in a lot of these trades of trading a substantial package for a player who isn’t a top pairing guy but has the potential to get their. With that there’s also trades like that haven’t worked out at all where teams have really messed up trying to do this. For example trading Taylor Hall for Adam Larson.

You’ve clearly showed that it happens and I don’t think it’s virtually impossible to do but it’s certainly difficult and costly because teams don’t often want to give up really good defencemen. I think it’s much better if we can get one in the draft. Obviously there’s no guarantee the player you pick turns out.

Also, not that they aren’t very good players but I also think we need someone better than some of these guys listed such as Girard and Toews to be our number 1 defencemen if we’re gonna contend.

My view is that it’s extremely difficult to get elite #1 dmen outside of the draft and this years draft is our best chance to get one if we get it right.
 

Guttersniped

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This is a pretty good point but I will point out with these trades that quite a few of them were trades where the team was getting this defencemen before they were actually a top pairing defencemen. So they didn’t trade for an actual top pairing dman at the time. Some of them were traded as prospects and then became top defencemen. They pretty much all came at a substantial package and atleast one of them maybe more has turned out to be a bad trade for the team.

Dougie Hamilton was traded for Hanifin who was supposed to be a top pairing defencemen so it was essentially a swap. They don’t get him without already having drafted someone who was supposed to be a top pairing dman. Jones wasn’t really a top defencemen yet when he was traded as far as I know and they traded a young all-star center in johanson for him. NYR only got Adam Fox because he wanted to play for them and wouldn’t sign for Carolina and they were just trading for a high end d prospect at the time.

I’m not gonna go through them all but there’s a common theme in a lot of these trades of trading a substantial package for a player who isn’t a top pairing guy but has the potential to get their. With that there’s also trades like that haven’t worked out at all where teams have really messed up trying to do this. For example trading Taylor Hall for Adam Larson.

You’ve clearly showed that it happens and I don’t think it’s virtually impossible to do but it’s certainly difficult and costly because teams don’t often want to give up really good defencemen. I think it’s much better if we can get one in the draft. Obviously there’s no guarantee the player you pick turns out.

Also, not that they aren’t very good players but I also think we need someone better than some of these guys listed such as Girard and Toews to be our number 1 defencemen if we’re gonna contend.

My view is that it’s extremely difficult to get elite #1 dmen outside of the draft and this years draft is our best chance to get one if we get it right.
The trade was Lindholm/Hanifin for Hamilton/Ferland/Fox, and Lindholm was the 5th pick in the 2013 draft and is the better player in the package. It was a big trade.

I agree with you and @Eggtimer was responding to someone specifically saying that we could get RD through free agency and that list has two UFA signing (and one guy signed in 2012).

Girard and Toews are great moves, getting prospects and cap dumps like that is certainly living the life, but the costs or specifics of most of the others don’t really fit our situation right now. (Girard is actually a elite top pairing defenseman, he’s real good.)
 
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Eggtimer

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People repeat this old wives tale but it just ain't so

Adam Fox - Traded
Devon Toews - Traded
Dougie Hamilton - Traded
Sam Girard - Traded
Shea Theodore - Traded
Mikhail Sergachev - Traded
Seth Jones - Traded
Brent Burns - Traded
Erik Karlsson - Traded
Alex Pietrangelo - Signed
Ryan Suter - Signed
Sorry man but your list is shit. Like it’s been said , half of these players were not even close to top pairing D when traded, and some still are not top pairing .
Also, it,cost a metric shit ton to acquire these players.
So about a dozen (debatable) or so players in what ... 5-6 years.
Fox is not an example . He refused to play for anyone but the Rags.
Toews is not a top pairing D
Girard was a revelation and was not even close to being regarded as a top pairing D at the time he was traded.Still consider him a good #3
Same as Theodore . Was not seen as elite when traded.
Karlsson had a team mates crazy girlfriend harass the crap out of him and his wife.
There has been a handful of top pairing D traded in the last decade.
Sorry man but to me that is considered almost impossible to get one unless a crazy situation arises where a player wants out immediatey , or a young kid breaks out and turns into a top pairing D .
 

Captain3rdLine

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So 10 or so players in what ... 5-6 years.
Fox is not an example . He refused to play for anyone but the Rags.
Toews is not a top pairing D
Girard was a revelation and was not even close to being regarded as a top pairing D at the time he was traded.Still consider him a good #3
Same as Theodore . Was not seen as elite when traded.
Karlsson had a team mates crazy girlfriend harass the crap out of him and his wife.
There has been a handful of top pairing D traded in the last decade.
Sorry man but to me that is considered almost impossible to get one unless a crazy situation arises where a player wants out immediatey , or a young kid breaks out and turns into a top pairing D .
More than 5-6 years on some of them. Early 2010s on a couple
 

Eggtimer

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If it is not that hard , how come we haven’t had a true top pairing D for over a decade ?
We have a rebuild timetable that we need to stick to.
We can’t have all the pieces we need then sit around and wait and hope a top pairing defencemen becomes available.
We need to be somewhat aggressive when we have the opportunity to snag one. We can’t count on picking in the top 10 for the next 5 years so when we have the chance to draft one , I think you do what you need to do to make sure that happens. I’m not saying give up huge assets to move up , but if it may look like we might miss out on one of the top 3 D , you have to at least look at the cost to ensure you get one of them. This chance will not come along very often.Who knows when we will be in a position even close to this again . I’d think an additional 2nd round pick or B prospect would be well worth it vs trading a huge amount of assets to trade for one .
Give up a second round pick or B prospect now and draft Clarke Power Hughes or hope one comes up in trade and have to pay through the nose to get him?
Last year it sucked missig out on Drysdale and Schneider but we also had a huge hole on wing and needed a top end finisher for Hughes or Nico.
 
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Guttersniped

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Sorry man but your list is shit. Like it’s been said , half of these players were not even close to top pairing D when traded, and some still are not top pairing .
Also, it,cost a metric shit ton to acquire these players.
So about a dozen (debatable) or so players in what ... 5-6 years.
Fox is not an example . He refused to play for anyone but the Rags.
Toews is not a top pairing D
Girard was a revelation and was not even close to being regarded as a top pairing D at the time he was traded.Still consider him a good #3
Same as Theodore . Was not seen as elite when traded.
Karlsson had a team mates crazy girlfriend harass the crap out of him and his wife.
There has been a handful of top pairing D traded in the last decade.
Sorry man but to me that is considered almost impossible to get one unless a crazy situation arises where a player wants out immediatey , or a young kid breaks out and turns into a top pairing D .
Toews and Girard are very much top pairing defenseman, Girard has become one of the best defenseman in the NHL this season. And Toews is having an incredible season.

I would hope that Fitz is looking for trades that get defensemen like that but a 3rd round pick or Joey Anderson or any random low end proposed trade isn’t going to get that done.

“Just do that”, it isn’t easy to pull off, plus Fitz still need to draft and develop the players who will be the assets to get those defensemen. And it’s hard to find those opportunities, which is why the Hall-Larson trade happened, Chia pretended that’s he was getting a top pairing defenseman.

I’m not actually disagreeing with you, other than the underestimating Avs dman part, but I do think you have to look and hope for those trades. Part of what makes contenders is luck, they just get the opportunity for the right deal or right draft pick.
 
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Blackjack

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I agree with you and @Eggtimer was responding to someone specifically saying that we could get RD through free agency and that list has two UFA signing (and one guy signed in 2012).

I also think it's interesting that when this assertion is trotted out, it's usually implied (as it was in this case) that you not only have to draft top defensemen, you must also do so with an early pick.

Let's look at the last eight Norris winners:

Roman Josi - 2nd round
Mark Giordano - undrafted
Victor Hedman - There's your lottery pick! 2nd overall
Brent Burns - 20th overall
Drew Doughty - Another lottery guy - 2nd overall
Erik Karlsson - 15th overall
Duncan Keith - 2nd round
PK Subban - 2nd round

That's extraordinary! The trophies that the forwards win are far more stacked with top picks. A few exceptions like Kucherov and Pasternak, but nothing like that. And this isn't any kind of anomoly. Playoff rosters are full of top pair defensemen taken outside the first round. Pelech, Parayko, Girard, Josi, Slavin, Pesce, Weeger, Dumoulin, it's remarkable how much value you can get outside the top 15 picks, which is where the elite forwards tend to go.

I think you can make a very strong case to prefer forwards in the early picks, and defensemen and goaltenders later.
 

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