Racing: 2021 Formula 1 Season

[umma gumma]

I guess we're largely in agreement, but I'm just saying if he slips by and is ahead I think it's unlikely whoever was in P2 is going to be very aggressive in trying to take the win away from him. However, at least in the case of no lapped cars, Sainz doesn't have to just hope for the two guys to take each other out, he could slip past even if those two stay in the race but are slowed down significantly in a corner (like they both run wide and have maneouvre around curbs). An opportunity Sainz would not have with lapped cars in between.



Yeah, or if they'd let everyone past on lap 56 (assuming track was clear), brought the SC in on 57, and Max overtakes Lewis easily on 58, it's just bad luck for Lewis ... but no questions about regulations. That's just racing luck. What we saw doesn't feel like racing luck though.

I know in the old days there were times a race director made a decision that wasn't necessarily correct, but I hate this lobbying by team bosses during a race, and you still sometimes end up with wrong decisions anyway. Plus it looks really bad when Horner is on the radio asking for the cars to be cleared after the decision was announced, then the decision is changed ... even if Masi would have changed his mind on his own for whatever reason, it's absolutely terrible optics.

Agreed. I think they need to get rid of the direct line. And Masi needs help. Its a lot for one guy.

 

[Khelandros]

Agreed. I think they need to get rid of the direct line. And Masi needs help. Its a lot for one guy.

Really? The last guy did it for 21 years and never had any problems.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Really? The last guy did it for 21 years and never had any problems.

Nah, he had an assistant. Crofty names him in the video someone posted a couple of pages back.

 

[FiveTacos]

Were the situations exactly the same?

Lewis P1, Max P2, safety car out after due to Norris stopping, back in at lap 50. But they let everyone through.

Now apparently the FIA will be launching some kind of probe to figure out how to deal with SC issues like this in the future, with all parties involved. And apparently driver feedback will be accepted. Although it's not clear if it will be all drivers asked for feedback or merely any of them.

Strange though that if the FIA feels like all regulations were followed perfectly to the letter, and the subsequent ruling is so crystal clear, why any of this is necessary.

 

[bluesfan94]

Lewis P1, Max P2, safety car out after due to Norris stopping, back in at lap 50. But they let everyone through.

Now apparently the FIA will be launching some kind of probe to figure out how to deal with SC issues like this in the future, with all parties involved. And apparently driver feedback will be accepted. Although it's not clear if it will be all drivers asked for feedback or merely any of them.

Strange though that if the FIA feels like all regulations were followed perfectly to the letter, and the subsequent ruling is so crystal clear, why any of this is necessary.

So not the same. There's not the agreed upon impetus to end under a green flag.

I think the strangest part is that you keep fighting strawmen instead of what I'm actually saying.

 

[umma gumma]

Really? The last guy did it for 21 years and never had any problems.

Charlie had Herbie Blash.

 

[Khelandros]

Blash left 4 years before Whiting died. Who is in that position now? Did they not fill it after he left?

 

[FiveTacos]

So not the same. There's not the agreed upon impetus to end under a green flag.

I think the strangest part is that you keep fighting strawmen instead of what I'm actually saying.

If you mean that since there's never been a late SC with two potential champions tied in the waning moments of a season and several lapped cars in between, named Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen ... then no there's no precedent.

But then call me crazy, I feel like the rules, unless specifically outlined otherwise, should be the same from the first lap of the season to the last. If that's fighting a strawman, then guilty as charged.

 

[bluesfan94]

If you mean that since there's never been a late SC with two potential champions tied in the waning moments of a season and several lapped cars in between, named Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen ... then no there's no precedent.

But then call me crazy, I feel like the rules, unless specifically outlined otherwise, should be the same from the first lap of the season to the last. If that's fighting a strawman, then guilty as charged.

All I will say is that how rules (and laws) are applied and read together is a very fact specific determination.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I really hope Mercedes goes through with the lawsuit, embarrassment might be the only way get a real change

 

[umma gumma]

Blash left 4 years before Whiting died. Who is in that position now? Did they not fill it after he left?

Apparently Masi is on his own.

Pits should be closed if the safety car comes out and 90% (or whatever) of the race has been completed; its a foregone conclusion if the car behind has brand new tires that only need to last a lap or two. Cars can only come in for repairs but no tire change unless there is rain. If a car has a puncture then replace just the one problematic tire.

 

[Albatros]

I really hope Mercedes goes through with the lawsuit, embarrassment might be the only way get a real change

They capitulated:

 

[FiveTacos]

They capitulated:

Either that or they put enough pressure on to get the FIA to agree to the probe. I doubt anyone really wanted a championship decided in courts.

No matter who you root for, what happened was not good for F1. Either you believe the rules were followed, but in that case the rules are flawed and need fixing. Or you believe the rules were not followed, in which case the oversight of races needs fixing. Eliminating the radio comms to the director was a good 1st step.

 

[NyQuil]

The writing was on the wall.

They weren't going to reverse that decision. Might as well save some money on legal fees.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

The writing was on the wall.

They weren't going to reverse that decision. Might as well save some money on legal fees.

I do wonder if they would still push through the appeal if it was the constructors title that was decided by that race ending and not the drivers title given that one awards you tens of millions of dollars and the other gives you nothing.

Also, Toto looks broken here (albeit a little Bond villain-seque). I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis retire over the winter, he looked mentally and physically drained after every race. Max is like Schumacher in his absolute iron will to win at all costs and damn everyone else, he's 12 younger than Lewis too and you could see that taking it's toll on Lewis. He's gotta be wondering "can I do this all again next season?"

 

[NyQuil]

I think there was a greater chance of retirement had Hamilton won.

 

[FiveTacos]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis retire over the winter, he looked mentally and physically drained after every race.

I think he'll be back. And after this I suspect he'll be even more popular. My wife was pulling for Max, and probably had Lewis as her least favorite driver on the entire grid (except for maybe the pure pay drivers), and spent most of the race frustrated that he was going to win again ... and even she's now saying she hopes Merc and Lewis kick everyone's ass next year. The ones who can't see past their Max loyalty are severely underestimating how bad that finish looked to more casual/neutral fans.

If I were LH though, if he wins next year I'd strongly consider another racing series. He really has nothing left to prove in F1 ... the folks who consider him one of the GOATs won't rate him any higher with another championship or 2 or 3, and people who refuse to give him credit for what he's done thus far never will anyway.

 

[Albatros]

The ones who can't see past their Max loyalty are severely underestimating how bad that finish looked to more casual/neutral fans.

I'm not sure I've ever seen as much interest in F1 as there is right now, certainly not in the social media era.

 

[Khelandros]

I do wonder if they would still push through the appeal if it was the constructors title that was decided by that race ending and not the drivers title given that one awards you tens of millions of dollars and the other gives you nothing.

Also, Toto looks broken here (albeit a little Bond villain-seque). I wouldn't be surprised to see Lewis retire over the winter, he looked mentally and physically drained after every race. Max is like Schumacher in his absolute iron will to win at all costs and damn everyone else, he's 12 younger than Lewis too and you could see that taking it's toll on Lewis. He's gotta be wondering "can I do this all again next season?"

And he is going to have a younger, better teammate than Bottas was this year. His fight won't only be with Verstappen.

 

[JoVel]

The final call to withdraw their appeal might've not come from their F1 team at all. It's a big corporation, not sure the publicity of the appeal is worth it.

 

[J T Money]

The final call to withdraw their appeal might've not come from their F1 team at all. It's a big corporation, not sure the publicity of the appeal is worth it.

Also have to consider Hamilton wouldn’t want to win the title via the Courts either. So why go through all that effort for a driver who doesn’t want you to do so?

 

[FiveTacos]

Also have to consider Hamilton wouldn’t want to win the title via the Courts either. So why go through all that effort for a driver who doesn’t want you to do so?

Especially when so many feel like he really won that race (and championship) anyway. Would a court win really change anyone's minds on who was the "real" champion? What does it really accomplish even if he wins? When he walks into that drivers' room, all of those guys know he had that race won, and I have yet to hear a single driver say that what happened was totally fine.

As someone who's never particularly cared for him, I think his handling of this so far has made him much more sympathetic. And given his upbringing and history, I'd be genuinely surprised if he quit racing over this. A guy who since he was little had to fight racism and classism every time he came to the karting track (and often away from the track too) ... you grow up like that and you're not gonna let some sniveling weakling like Masi break you. Don't know if Merc will build a championship level car next year, but I have little doubt that Lewis isn't going to just curl up and go away. If that'd been him he'd have quit karting decades ago.

 

[J T Money]

Especially when so many feel like he really won that race (and championship) anyway. Would a court win really change anyone's minds on who was the "real" champion? What does it really accomplish even if he wins? When he walks into that drivers' room, all of those guys know he had that race won, and I have yet to hear a single driver say that what happened was totally fine.

As someone who's never particularly cared for him, I think his handling of this so far has made him much more sympathetic. And given his upbringing and history, I'd be genuinely surprised if he quit racing over this. A guy who since he was little had to fight racism and classism every time he came to the karting track (and often away from the track too) ... you grow up like that and you're not gonna let some sniveling weakling like Masi break you. Don't know if Merc will build a championship level car next year, but I have little doubt that Lewis isn't going to just curl up and go away. If that'd been him he'd have quit karting decades ago.

I couldn’t have put it any better

 

[Albatros]

It's very unlikely that Hamilton would have been awarded the championship had they went to court. The best they might have achieved is have the results of the final race annulled which still would have left Verstappen the champion.

 

[Islay1989]

Gotta love Kimi.