Speculation: 2020-2021 General Lightning Discussion - Defending Champions Edition: Part 2

[Zwui21]

I think Brisebois will try to retain Killorn, Palat, and Johnson for Coop

If Johnson is still a Bolt at the beginning of next season I'll be pissed, not gonna lie

 

[Peacefool]

If Johnson is still a Bolt at the beginning of next season I'll be pissed, not gonna lie

To be honest. Now at Play Offs he shows something from old Juhnson. He skates fast<battles among board,and is more confident with puck,he is good now. Not top 6 good, but such a Johnson we needed last play offs at 3rd line.

 

[HoseEmDown]

With that lineup assuming our backup is at league minimum, Foote/Colton sign at 800-900k~, Goodrow at 2m and a 13th forward at league minimum for a 22 man roster we'd be ~700-800k over the cap.

I'm starting to side with @HoseEmDown and think Palat should be moved over Killorn this season, Killorn is cheaper and Palat will return more. Palat's production lately has been in large part to playing with Kucherov/Point and getting top PP time this year in Kuch's absence. Killorn also has an extra year over Palat which means we can trade him the following year with term to another team and get returns for both players instead of just 1.

Stamkos can replace Palat on the top line without hurting it, Palat on his own might produce a little more than Killorn but Killorn plays the PK has been hitting some good numbers lately too, I think the capspace + returns outweigh it here, especially if you can consider we can get another return by trading Killorn the year after as well.

If you trade Palat instead of Killorn then you aren't even over the cap because Palat makes 850k more. Plus Killorn and Cirelli play great together so you don't lose that connection on the 2nd line. I think you can get Foote at 750k Colton 800k so you maybe have an extra 100-200k to get a better backup then league minimum one or keep some cap room for later moves.

The only question in this scenario is who did Seattle take? It could be Johnson but what did we pay to have them do that? Palat should return us a lot of what we might lose in a Johnson trade.

 

[Zwui21]

To be honest. Now at Play Offs he shows something from old Juhnson. He skates fast<battles among board,and is more confident with puck,he is good now. Not top 6 good, but such a Johnson we needed last play offs at 3rd line.

A glimpse of decency doesn't cancel years of garbage IMO. I agree he's probably playing (on average) the best hockey in his last couple years, but still. Him staying not only means we don't get rid of his ass, it also means we have to get rid of Gourde or Pally. Which is a big nono in my books

 

[Sky04]

If you trade Palat instead of Killorn then you aren't even over the cap because Palat makes 850k more. Plus Killorn and Cirelli play great together so you don't lose that connection on the 2nd line. I think you can get Foote at 750k Colton 800k so you maybe have an extra 100-200k to get a better backup then league minimum one or keep some cap room for later moves.

The only question in this scenario is who did Seattle take? It could be Johnson but what did we pay to have them do that? Palat should return us a lot of what we might lose in a Johnson trade.

I don't think a new GM is actively looking to make enemies, I think they'd be willing to take Johnson for a price. They're not going to pick Palat/Killorn when they're pending UFA's. I think it's between Johnson+assets, Foote or Gourde.

It cost a 2nd, 4th and Gusev's rights to pick Garrison, what are the opinions if that cost is something like a 1st + Mitchell Stephens, it's steep but not some thing that will hurt too bad and it's enough to incentivize over Foote/Gourde. I think we could recoup a first with Palat so it's losing Stephens who has the value of about a 2nd/3rd

 

[The Gongshow]

I don't know man. The cap is gonna have to go up in a hurry and retroactively scale for lost growth. Realistically, it WILL go up when those sweet TV deals kick in. But how much and when is the wildcard. The combined raises to Point, Cernak, Cirelli and Sergachev is gonna be a combined $6 million minimum from what we are already paying guys now. But if you roll those 9 guys into 2023 with only a $85 million cap and we're gonna be recanting Jonathan Drouin to talk about how ugly that's gonna get

Guys like Killorn and Palat and even Stamkos are coming off the books when Serg, Cernak, Cirelli and Point need raises

I don't see us not resigning Stamkos but it should be for less money. When those names come off they should be able to cover a few raises and leave a small bit of extra cash

 

[The Gongshow]

I'm totally expecting to lose Gourde. He's going to be the most desirable that isn't Coop's boy. I think Brisebois will try to retain Killorn, Palat, and Johnson for Coop.

There should be no scenario where Johnson is on this team next year. In a flat cap paying a 4th liner 5million is no bueno.

Coop has his new toys with Goodrow, Cirelli and Gourde. He'll get one of Killorn or Palat as well.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I don't think a new GM is actively looking to make enemies, I think they'd be willing to take Johnson for a price. They're not going to pick Palat/Killorn when they're pending UFA's. I think it's between Johnson+assets, Foote or Gourde.

It cost a 2nd, 4th and Gusev's rights to pick Garrison, what are the opinions if that cost is something like a 1st + Mitchell Stephens, it's steep but not some thing that will hurt too bad and it's enough to incentivize over Foote/Gourde. I think we could recoup a first with Palat so it's losing Stephens who has the value of about a 2nd/3rd

Palat and Killorn aren't pending UFA's, they have one and two years remaining. Vegas took Neal and Perron who were in similar situation to Palat with just one year left and ended up keeping them for the playoff run. They didn't resign either but got use out of them. So they may take either if we don't make the price worth it as they could also flip either player, so our package would need to beat what they may get in that trade. I think Johnson has value if there aren't many C's available in the ED, if it's wing heavy then them wanting Palat or Killorn is less so they may be more willing to deal for Johnson.

That trade to Vegas was more than just dumping Garrison, it was to protect Dotchin and Koekkoek as well. So instead of those two this time it's more like Foote and Colton. If it's a 1st + Barre-Boulet/Stephens/Joseph I think we make that trade 10/10. None of those kids can get into the lineup right now. I know ow we might have 4 openings with Johnson, Goodrow, Coleman and Palat/Killorn leaving but we will be fine losing any of those. We have the other two left as well as Katchouk and Raddysh who made big strides this year.

 

[DFC]

If I'm Seattle I take Palat. It's on Brisebois to offer a package that is more valuable.

If you're Ron Francis, what would it take? Would you accept Johnson, Foote and a 1st rounder in 2022 instead? Or Killorn+Johnson etc.

I don't think Foote has a lot of value. Johnson's value is negative.

 

[The Gongshow]

I don't think Foote has a lot of value. Johnson's value is negative.

I think Foote's skating might turn them off, it doesn't look fluid, comfortable or natural. Otherwise I thought he played fine in the games he played. Heck of a shot, wasn't affraid to jump up and join the play.

He just needs to get stronger/be a little more physical and work on his skating

 

[DFC]

I think Coleman will cash in somewhere. He deserves it.

 

[These Are The Days]

I don't think a new GM is actively looking to make enemies

Important to remember this folks.

Kraken HQ picked the wrong guy if they wanted a ruthless GM. Ron Francis historically was very methodical. His tenure in Carolina sans Staal trade was basically making many smaller trades that would never ruffle any feathers while trying to slowly build the team. Given that he's working with a brand new team from scratch I'm not sure why his approach would be different this time around.

If he asked for the moon and stars to do us a favor I'd be a little surprised. I think we'll get cut a fair deal at the expansion draft and HF Main will continue to whine and cry about cheating.

 

[These Are The Days]

I think Coleman will cash in somewhere. He deserves it.

He really does. He can get double his pay on the open market and if he does, God bless his agent for getting it done and Coleman for not having to settle. Especially with a young family in tow. It's gonna be really hard for me to be upset if that's what ended up happening.

 

[These Are The Days]

I think Foote's skating might turn them off, it doesn't look fluid, comfortable or natural. Otherwise I thought he played fine in the games he played. Heck of a shot, wasn't affraid to jump up and join the play.

He just needs to get stronger/be a little more physical and work on his skating

If the coaching staff hasn't told him he's not long for the team next year if the issues persist I would be surprised. I sure hope Barb Underhill knows how to fix that terrible beeping noise we're always hearing any time he has to pivot or back up.

 

[YayHockeysBack]

If the coaching staff hasn't told him he's not long for the team next year if the issues persist I would be surprised. I sure hope Barb Underhill knows how to fix that terrible beeping noise we're always hearing any time he has to pivot or back up.

LOL. But he's not a kid any more, so how much improvement in his skating is left? If he hasn't reached an NFL-level of skating by now, I doubt he'll reach it. It's not like this is a flaw the organization sprung on him after seeing him this year.

 

[Coopers Gum]

LOL. But he's not a kid any more, so how much improvement in his skating is left? If he hasn't reached an NFL-level of skating by now, I doubt he'll reach it. It's not like this is a flaw the organization sprung on him after seeing him this year.

Damn, football has new rules, I might actually have to watch it now

 

[bov]

I don't think Foote has a lot of value. Johnson's value is negative.

Fair enough , but I'm genuinely asking...if you're Ron Francis, what does it take?

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

LOL. But he's not a kid any more, so how much improvement in his skating is left? If he hasn't reached an NFL-level of skating by now, I doubt he'll reach it. It's not like this is a flaw the organization sprung on him after seeing him this year.

He's 22. There's plenty of kid left there (but don't tell him that).

 

[DFC]

He's 22. There's plenty of kid left there (but don't tell him that).

Not when it comes to skating. We've been working on that for almost half a decade, and it's still not quite Luke Schenn level.

 

[Sky04]

Pretty sure it's mentioned he's been working with Barb for the last 3 years, this isn't a base to start at its what the progress is at currently which means there's not much more room for growth.

She's not a miracle worker, sees dozens and dozens of players a year between the Leafs and Lightning and the only 2 massive success stories are Point and Marchmant.

 

[The Gongshow]

If he's been with her for 3 years and this is the result then this is the best it's gonna get and it's not good

 

[Stammertime91]

I still like what I saw in Thomas to give him more time than Foote. I know it was a small sample size, but to be honest, that skating from Foote was enough to put me off. Hope he owns out whether it's with us or another team, but he's not exactly 18 and at the point where it's something he can play through. He will be slow and a mediocre skater for quite a bit. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Schenn can beat him in a race. And if we are slotting a RHD on the bottom pairing, just keep schenn cause him and Sergachev actually do well together, surprisingly.

 

[These Are The Days]

Fair enough , but I'm genuinely asking...if you're Ron Francis, what does it take?

Well shit we don't have like any draft picks for the next 2 years nor any real prospects for that matter. So probably a 3rd in like 2023 and someone like ABB.


But the rest of HF be like "omg your 2022 1st for starters, then Maxim Groshev, AND a night with Macho's wife for Johnson at 50% BENT OVER A BARRELL!1!!1!!ELEVEN!!

 

[The Macho King]

Let's leave my wife out of this.

 

[YayHockeysBack]

Pretty sure it's mentioned he's been working with Barb for the last 3 years, this isn't a base to start at its what the progress is at currently which means there's not much more room for growth.

She's not a miracle worker, sees dozens and dozens of players a year between the Leafs and Lightning and the only 2 massive success stories are Point and Marchmant.

Cernak too I believe . . . his skating improved dramatically after he joined the Lightning.