Speculation: 2019-2020 Sharks Roster Discussion Part šest (6)

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TomasHertlsRooster

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May 14, 2012
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If marleau signs for league min somewhere, melker is on our 3rd line, and we don't do anything I'll be less than stoked

Melker isn’t on our 3rd line even today.

Meier-Couture-Labanc
Kane-Hertl-Gambrell
Sorensen-Thornton-Chmelevski
Radil-Goodrow-Melker

Melker is strictly a 4th liner and he is significantly better than Marleau in that role.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Melker isn’t on our 3rd line even today.

Meier-Couture-Labanc
Kane-Hertl-Gambrell
Sorensen-Thornton-Chmelevski
Radil-Goodrow-Melker

Melker is strictly a 4th liner and he is significantly better than Marleau in that role.

I like Chmelevski and I also like Chekhovich but we can't say either of them are on the 3rd line at this point.
 

Erep

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Jul 17, 2019
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I like Chmelevski and I also like Chekhovich but we can't say either of them are on the 3rd line at this point.
We can't, but in some ways, not signing Marleau is DW saying that he is. DW knows more than us about where the players are, and he would probably have a different view on signing Marleau if those guys weren't ready to be 3rd liners at least.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
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I like Chmelevski and I also like Chekhovich but we can't say either of them are on the 3rd line at this point.

Barring an external acquisition, one of them will be put in an opportunity to succeed in the top-9. I’m not saying they will succeed - I expect Gambrell and Labanc to both fail where I put them in that lineup - but they will most likely be given that opportunity. If not them, it’ll be somebody else like Radil before Melker.

I know this whole “top-9 Melker” is a fun meme at this point but it doesn’t really happen anymore. Even in the playoffs, when Pavelski and Donskoi were injured, Radil was put in a top-6 role on his off-side next to Kane and Hertl before Melker was.
 
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OrrNumber4

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Melker isn’t on our 3rd line even today.

Melker is strictly a 4th liner and he is significantly better than Marleau in that role.

Really? I suppose Melker might be a better PKer at this point, but Marleau is still a better player than Melker Karlsson. Even if you want a more traditional, defensively-oriented, crash-and-bang fourth line instead of a depth scoring line, neither Marleau or Karlsson is physical and Marleau is still the superior defensive player.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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Really? I suppose Melker might be a better PKer at this point, but Marleau is still a better player than Melker Karlsson. Even if you want a more traditional, defensively-oriented, crash-and-bang fourth line instead of a depth scoring line, neither Marleau or Karlsson is physical and Marleau is still the superior defensive player.

Marleau is not a better defensive player. He is better offensively, but both are quite poor offensively. Both are net negatives, but I prefer Melker because he is more defensively responsible and he is effective on the PK, where we are severely lacking.
 

hockfan1991

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I like Chmelevski and I also like Chekhovich but we can't say either of them are on the 3rd line at this point.

i dont even like gambrell in the top 12 let alone the top 6.

He has not even show consistency as a 3/4 liner to justify staying in the line up
 

Pinkfloyd

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We can't, but in some ways, not signing Marleau is DW saying that he is. DW knows more than us about where the players are, and he would probably have a different view on signing Marleau if those guys weren't ready to be 3rd liners at least.

In no way does it say that. That's just making a link that isn't there based on any evidence. All not signing Marleau would mean is that Marleau isn't a Shark. It says nothing about who will be on the 3rd line this season.

Barring an external acquisition, one of them will be put in an opportunity to succeed in the top-9. I’m not saying they will succeed - I expect Gambrell and Labanc to both fail where I put them in that lineup - but they will most likely be given that opportunity. If not them, it’ll be somebody else like Radil before Melker.

I know this whole “top-9 Melker” is a fun meme at this point but it doesn’t really happen anymore. Even in the playoffs, when Pavelski and Donskoi were injured, Radil was put in a top-6 role on his off-side next to Kane and Hertl before Melker was.

But that was then and this is now. Radil may not be given the same opportunity this time around for various reasons. I agree Melker is unlikely to be put up there but we can't say that Chmleveski or Chekhovich are in that spot either. There's still too many unknown variables to make any declaration one way or the other. Even with the report from Friedman, it's possible for the Sharks and Marleau to still come to terms provided one side or both have decided to move from their current spots in the negotiations to make a deal and have him on board although that's very unlikely given that report. Plus, it just isn't likely that DW doesn't make a trade at some point because even if he brought in Marleau, having any internal option in the top six along with a shaky Labanc is problematic. The report doesn't change that a move is in the works to add up front.
 

Pinkfloyd

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i dont even like gambrell in the top 12 let alone the top 6.

He has not even show consistency as a 3/4 liner to justify staying in the line up

I agree. Nothing I've seen from his NHL games leads me to believe he has earned a spot on the roster other than the competition around him right now and that's a wait to be seen sort of thing. But a fringe NHL'er in the top six whether it's him or Radil or Karlsson or Goodrow or what I'm sure JTR would classify Marleau as is a problem no matter what that I'm certain DW sees otherwise Thornton would be signed already.
 

Jargon

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I wouldn't mind seeing Radil as a stopgap in the top 6, he had some skills and could get better with a season under his belt. But my real preference is that Chlemevski and Checkhovich both explode and manage to be stars in the NHL immediately and are on the 1st and 2nd line and tie for most points in the NHL for rookies and then lead us to a dramatic Stanley Cup win over... I don't know, let's say Tampa.

Meier - Couture - Checkhovich
Kane - Hertl - Chlemevski
Sorenson - Thornton - Labanc
Karlsson - Gambrell - Radil
Goodrow

Simek - Burns
Vlasic - Karlsson
Dillon - Gardiner (oh yeah we got Gardiner for a 1 season, 1 million "I want to win the cup" deal)

Shut up, it's possible. Even likely. It's already happened.

I'M BORED.
 
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TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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Fremont, CA
In no way does it say that. That's just making a link that isn't there based on any evidence. All not signing Marleau would mean is that Marleau isn't a Shark. It says nothing about who will be on the 3rd line this season.



But that was then and this is now. Radil may not be given the same opportunity this time around for various reasons. I agree Melker is unlikely to be put up there but we can't say that Chmleveski or Chekhovich are in that spot either. There's still too many unknown variables to make any declaration one way or the other. Even with the report from Friedman, it's possible for the Sharks and Marleau to still come to terms provided one side or both have decided to move from their current spots in the negotiations to make a deal and have him on board although that's very unlikely given that report. Plus, it just isn't likely that DW doesn't make a trade at some point because even if he brought in Marleau, having any internal option in the top six along with a shaky Labanc is problematic. The report doesn't change that a move is in the works to add up front.

I’m not making a declaration that it will be one of Radil, Chmelevski, Chekhovich, etc. in particular. I’m saying that it’s not going to be Melker Karlsson in that role. As much as we like the meme, DeBoer has actually moved on from Melker in that role pretty much entirely. He didn’t see significant time in that role even when half our forward group was seriously injured.

And yes, I agree that it’s far more likely that a move is in the works. More realistically, we see something like this:

Kreider-Couture-Meier
Kane-Hertl-Labanc
Sorensen-Thornton-Chmelevski
Radil-Goodrow-Melker

Replace Kreider with whomever they acquire and replace Chmelevski with Gambrell if you want, but it will probably be something like this. Either way, top-6 Melker is very unlikely. Even more so if DW actually does address our needs on the wing.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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I’m not making a declaration that it will be one of Radil, Chmelevski, Chekhovich, etc. in particular. I’m saying that it’s not going to be Melker Karlsson in that role. As much as we like the meme, DeBoer has actually moved on from Melker in that role pretty much entirely. He didn’t see significant time in that role even when half our forward group was seriously injured.

It's probable that it isn't him but I don't see a good enough reason to dismiss him entirely at this point. There is certainly a pathway for him to reach that spot and certainly reasons management could want to go with him now rather than last year when injuries hit the team. Things change from one year to the next and they aren't exactly consistent with how they apply their reasoning for lineup decisions. You know this.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
33,361
25,425
Fremont, CA
I wouldn't mind seeing Radil as a stopgap in the top 6, he had some skills and could get better with a season under his belt. But my real preference is that Chlemevski and Checkhovich both explode and manage to be stars in the NHL immediately and are on the 1st and 2nd line and tie for most points in the NHL for rookies and then lead us to a dramatic Stanley Cup win over... I don't know, let's say Tampa.

Meier - Couture - Checkhovich
Kane - Hertl - Chlemevski
Sorenson - Thornton - Labanc
Karlsson - Gambrell - Radil
Goodrow

Simek - Burns
Vlasic - Karlsson
Dillon - Gardiner (oh yeah we got Gardiner for a 1 season, 1 million "I want to win the cup" deal)

Shut up, it's possible. Even likely. It's already happened.

I'M BORED.

Speaking of Gardiner...



It's probable that it isn't him but I don't see a good enough reason to dismiss him entirely at this point. There is certainly a pathway for him to reach that spot and certainly reasons management could want to go with him now rather than last year when injuries hit the team. Things change from one year to the next and they aren't exactly consistent with how they apply their reasoning for lineup decisions. You know this.

Maybe we can’t dismiss him entirely, but it’s very unlikely and there’s evidence to suggest we won’t be seeing top-9 Melker on opening night.
 

Jargon

Registered User
Apr 12, 2011
5,751
9,720
Venice, California
I'm sur
Speaking of Gardiner...





Maybe we can’t dismiss him entirely, but it’s very unlikely and there’s evidence to suggest we won’t be seeing top-9 Melker on opening night.


I'm surprised Gardiner isn't signed yet -- or that he's looking for a short deal. Though, maybe he's not happy with the offers/his ideal team can't fit him this year.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,433
9,106
Whidbey Island, WA
Speaking of Gardiner...





Maybe we can’t dismiss him entirely, but it’s very unlikely and there’s evidence to suggest we won’t be seeing top-9 Melker on opening night.


While I think that Melker is not a good fit on the 3rd line, I think there are two reasons why we could see him there.

- Played with Jumbo a few years back when Jumbo was still our 1C.
- Trusted by PDB to PK and take on tough competition.

Outside of Jumbo and Sorensen, Melker is probably the forward PDB would trust the most on the 3rd line role. I don't think Goodrow, Gambrell, Brodzinski get the nod over him.
 
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