2018 U Sports Playoffs/University Cup (Fredericton, NB)

Discussion in 'NCAA, U Sports, and other college' started by Drummer, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Rob

    Rob Registered User

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    With the Nationals in Lethbridge next year I wonder if Sportsnet is still going to want the gold medal game at 1pm edt?
     
  2. rethinking

    rethinking Registered User

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    The "All Knowledgeable Ranking Committee" had McGill ranked at 3 and Brock ranked at 4 so I think their formula should be looked at.
    However, I think that the rankings and seedings are not as great a concern as the level of consistency and competency in the officiating at a National Championship.
     
  3. ProjectAUS

    ProjectAUS Registered User

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    First off, the fact that a personal attack is necessary, shows me that you must have been one of the fans at the AUC booing Centorame after getting the knee when being helped to the bench, or booing Stevens when recieving player of the game, or the “No Means No” sign. Yes, the sign was a select few, but the booing was a LARGE portion of the crowd, which was ridiculous, very classy. Second, I don’t accept the underdog card or “no respect” because I don’t cheer for X, I went to UNB, proud alum, was in the crowd wearing black and red at every game. This isn’t me sticking up for the underdog, But the arrogance from our fan base is atrocious? X has come into our building numerous times in the last few years and beat us. I get that winning as often as we do does that to a fan base. But like, come on, the coaches select the refs, they are there for a reason, you don’t like it, go get certified I’d love to watch any of you try to ref those games. It’s quite easy from the stands.
     
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  4. Drummer

    Drummer Better Red than Dead

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    They may not be 'bound' by the final rankings and they have some leeway, but the rankings carry a lot of weight. I would find it hard to believe the seeding committee would swap 5 & 6 without the justification of avoiding a first round opponent from the same conference (and the rule does not extend into trying to guess the second round). Also, we never saw the top 10 scores, SFX (101) was 11 points a head of USK (90) for 5th - that would also make it hard to swap the teams. And, as you outlined, the committee is technical in nature, not a bunch of UNB'ers. So, with such a clear ranking advantage for SFX for 5th - I'm sure someone would have filed a protest if they had tried to swap them.

    This will happen again I'm sure - this just happens to be the first time that #1 and #5 were from the same conference.
     
  5. ProjectAUS

    ProjectAUS Registered User

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    I’ve been ashamed of the way our fan base acts for the last few years. Like I said as an alumni, you shouldn’t have half of Fredericton hating your team, if you don’t realize that they do, then you’re blind. The way a lot of the fans act is embarrassing. That’s my input on it, and I’m sure
    I’m about to get shredded for it as that’s how things seem to go here I guess.
     
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  6. Drummer

    Drummer Better Red than Dead

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    If not the Major, certainly the 2+10. Totally crazy that neither ref called that. You have to call what you see even if you goofed up the past - clean the slate and stick to your guns going forward.
     
  7. FreddtFoyle

    FreddtFoyle Registered User

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    Actually, I was helping broadcast the game on radio, and no cheering or booing is allowed.

    It was an emotional game against a heated rival. Fans were into it. I am not going to apologize for them. Maybe some of them crossed the line, especially the student section with the Instagram stuff on their signs, but I don't know what is acceptable behaviour anymore within that generation.

    Centorame had not lasting injury from that hit, and was back on the ice on their power play, but I don't like that booing either, but I feel it was directed at the officials
     
  8. FreddtFoyle

    FreddtFoyle Registered User

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    The tournament regulations mandate that the OUA runner-up has to get the 4th seed, no matter their ranking. That rule doesn't seem to be in place for any of the other sports, but the OUA is a "double-division" in men's hockey, with more teams than the AUS and CanWest combined.

    The three conference winner have to be seeded 1-2-3 based on their rankings, so that's why McGill got the 3 spot.
     
  9. FreddtFoyle

    FreddtFoyle Registered User

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    I guess I disagree. They are student-athletes and they are playing for each other and their university, which they probably see as their fellow students. We alumni don't factor into the equation unless we are hockey-alumni, who they are also playing for.

    If half of Fredericton hates the team, that is news to me. But they're not playing for Fredericton, they are playing for UNB.

    Passion in the fan base, in the building, is great. The UNB players love it, and it makes it harder for opponents to come into the AUC. Were you around for the 80's and 90's? Back then the norm was waaaaay more politically incorrect than now. I still remember the stuffed birds and Kermit the frogs swung on nooses when Moncton was in town.

    These are the glory years for UNB hockey right now. They win. They have bitter rivals. Those rivalries make all the teams better as they strive to win. And is entertaining ... well maybe for most of us. If you want to watch efficient, disciplined to the point of almost be passionless hockey, than you probably should be cheering for Alberta. And I have a lot of respect for their program. But that's not how hockey is played in the AUS.
     
  10. FreddtFoyle

    FreddtFoyle Registered User

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    Finally, Bob didn't mean that the fix was in for UNB this year.

    When you are the host, and also a top seed, the cards do align better for you. You get to decide whether you want to play Thursday night, and get a day off if you win, or play Friday. You are automatically in the evening slot. And your first opponent will be a low seed, so probably the OUA third-team.

    So it pays to be a strong host. UNB was in a good position this year. Alberta was in a similar position when they hosted. That's all.
     
  11. Bob Stauffer

    Bob Stauffer Registered User

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    #1. I said the tournament was "structured" for UNB to be in a great position to win. Not that the "fix" was in!
    When Alberta gets back to hosting Championships (when they get a new Arena) it will be structured (by the organizing committe) for Alberta to be in the best possible position to succeed, that is how it works. This includes opting to have a day off between quarter-final and a semi-final etc...as UNB did.
    The whole seeding process in place to appease the weakest Conference (OUA) is completly flawed too!
    #2. Officiating often is an issue at this event. Here's why. Not sure how many of you have sat in the Coaches Technical meeting but I can tell you from experience...you can't have the head of officials for the event thinking his officials are more important than the student-athletes! And trust me this has happened over the years.
    I can completely understand why the fans in Fredericton were livid, a couple of the calls (the Major Penalty) and the Penalty Shot were highly debatable, IMO.
    #3. You didn't see Alberta's best team in Fredericton. The Golden Bears basically had an entire line out. Every team had injuries, X as an example didnt have Needham who was a very good WHL player and a legit top 6 FWD in USports.
    The absence of Brandon Magee (suspended for an undisciplined stick infraction in Garbage time vs Saskatchewan in Game 2 of CW Final) Jayden Hart (injuries/illness all season) and Cole Linekar (blew out his knee) limited Alberta's depth.
    Magee drove Alberta's 2nd line in the 2nd half of the season. Hart is a power forward at the U sports level and Linekar would be a top 6 on many USports teams. Nonethless the Bears ultimately found a way.
     
  12. MiamiHockey

    MiamiHockey Registered User

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    The tough thing with the rankings is that it's really a guessing game without inter-conference games. So, yes, UNB was ranked ahead of Alberta and St FX was ranked ahead of Sask, but the basis for those rankings involves a fair bit of speculation.

    St FX finished at 22-4-4, Sask at 20-7-1. So, 22-8 versus 20-8, in different conferences. Not so overwhelming a difference that it cannot be questioned.
     
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  13. rethinking

    rethinking Registered User

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    I understand the basic formula but it is out of touch with the U Sport men's hockey reality. There is no way the OUA runner-up is anywhere close to the CanWest and AUS runner-ups and that's been the reality for several years now.
    I'm not sure which coaches or how many coaches are involved in the selection of the officials but it might be worthwhile to examine that process and this year's selection because I think everyone watching Nationals this year questioned the consistency and competency of the officials.
    Finally, ProjectAUS, do you think the UNB fans are really any different from other AUS fans in how they support their hockey teams?
     
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  14. Drummer

    Drummer Better Red than Dead

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    The committee is bound by the USPORTS hockey manual which dictates this seeding approach. They probably don't like it anymore than we do. I'm sure the technical committee and the Coaches Committee bring it up, but it's non-starter for some reason. They do 'real' rankings for basketball, it might make it's way here. Regardless, you have to win 3 - it shouldn't matter who those games are against.

    Agreed. I would have expected better composer and a consistent approach given these were Level VI referees with WHL and QMJHL experience. I believe the quality of play at UCup is a quicker and hire caliber than regular season - closer to ECHL and AHL - they (the committee/USPORTS) may have to raise the bar from "just being a VI" to being an 'experienced' VI and having professional experience. Maybe the time has come that we no longer take a volunteer from the conferences, but the host hires/targets a selected team with a higher degree of professional experience.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  15. MiamiHockey

    MiamiHockey Registered User

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    I've said this before, but it bears repeating: the only rankings that matter are 1-2 and 7-8. Debating 3-4 vs 5-6 is like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    Let's say, for argument's sake, you believe it should follow the rankings:

    UNB-Alberta at 1-2, St FX-McGill at 3-4, Sask-Acadia at 5-6, Brock at 7, and Concordia at 8.

    Here's the QF lineup:

    UNB-Concordia
    Alberta-Brock
    St FX-Acadia
    McGill-Sask

    So, two of the matches are identical, but you get St FX facing Acadia instead of Brock. I don't think it would have changed anything.
     
  16. Drummer

    Drummer Better Red than Dead

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    If CW is #1 ...
    - the #8 seed is OUA #3
    - AUS Champion is #2 and plays Lethbridge #7
    - if Lethbridge elects for the Friday night game for the best draw, OUA Champion (#3) and seed #6 play the afternoon
    - CW #1 and seed #8 (OUA #3) play Thursday afternoon
    - seed #4 (OUA #2) and seed #5 play Thursday night
    - If CW #2 is seed 5, then AUS #2 is seed 6 and you get a chance of having an all-conf semi-finals
    You can swap the Thursday games if you want CW #1 at night for an increased draw

    If AUS is #1 ...
    - the #8 seed is Lethbridge
    - CW Champion is #2 and plays OUA #3
    - if Lethbridge elects for Friday night game for the best draw, OUA Runner-up (#4) and seed #5 play the afternoon
    - CW #1 (seed #2) and OUA #3 (seed #7) play Thursday afternoon
    - seed #3 (OUA Champion) and #6 play Thursday night
    - If AUS #2 is seed 5, then CW #2 is seed 6 and you get a chance of having an all-conf semi-finals
    You can swap the Thursday games if you want CW #1 at night for an increased draw

    So...
    - the CW Champion likely opens on Thursday (regardless) vs OUA #3
    - the AUS Champion likely opens on Friday night (regardless) vs Lethbridge
    - CW #2 & AUS #2 'easy road' depends on if they are #5 AND #1 is from the same conference or not
    (#5 & #1 same) - They play on the same day as their conf. rival and can advance to a rematch for both themselves as well as for #2/#6 in the other bracket.
    (#5 & not #1 same) - they play on the off-day as their conf. rival and advance to a new opponent.
     
  17. MiamiHockey

    MiamiHockey Registered User

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    Drummer - do a quick exercise where you seed AUS #2 and CW #2 at 3-4, and tell me if it changes any of the match-ups. Hint: it doesn't.
     
  18. rethinking

    rethinking Registered User

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    I think not awarding the OUA runner-up the 4 seed automatically would leave you with more flexibility.

    I don't think anyone who saw the St FX / UNB semi final would suggest the two officials had a very good game, to be very generous. However, they were both back at it on Sunday in the Bronze and Gold games, with questionable calls and non calls in both, which makes the officiating situation look even worse.
     
  19. UNB Bruins Fan

    UNB Bruins Fan Registered User

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    It would’ve meant UNB (#1 seed) and St. FX (#3 seed)....and Alberta (#2 seed) and Saskatchewan (#4 seed) would’ve been in different brackets. It would’ve meant our Sunday matchups would have been the semi-final games instead, like many of us thought would happen.
     
  20. AdamMcg83

    AdamMcg83 Registered User

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    Minor correction - In about 2007 or so, The OUA began to permit AFAs. However, there's an annual cap per player of $4,500. Drummer's point remains, though, because full ride from an AUS school >>> $4500.
     
  21. UNB Bruins Fan

    UNB Bruins Fan Registered User

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    What if you said the 3 conference champions had to be ranked in the top 4...and the OUA runner-up had to be top 6?
     
  22. UNB Bruins Fan

    UNB Bruins Fan Registered User

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    So the players who get CHL money + AFA’s are basically getting paid to go to school? I would think those would be more than enough to cover tuition/books/living expenses.
     
  23. MiamiHockey

    MiamiHockey Registered User

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    Given that the OUA Champ and OUA Runner-Up can't meet in the first round, that means that the OUA Runner-Up can only be seeded #4 or #5 ... so, same match-up whether you put the you put the OUA Runner-Up at 5 (and put the best CW/AUS #2 team at 4) or you put the OUA Runner-Up at 4 (and bump the best CW/AUS #2 team to 5).

    Trust me ... the only seedings that count are #1 and #2. After that, there's no "easy road" difference between #3 and #6.
     
  24. MiamiHockey

    MiamiHockey Registered User

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    The top schools have a way of hiring their hockey players to help run summer hockey camps. It's perfectly legal, and that money is provided on top of the AFA's.
     
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  25. FreddtFoyle

    FreddtFoyle Registered User

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    They EARNED their CHL education packages by being unpaid players in Junior; teams that are run for profit by their owners. So yes, their tuition is covered.

    70% of a game day roster count is your maximum AFA pot (i.e. 70% of 20 hockey players or 14 x tuition) can be distributed. 14 players in good academic standing can receive the equivalent of tuition fees, or you can split it up and spread it among your 22 skaters and 2 or 3 goalies in the AUS. Since Acadia has higher tuition than most schools in the Maritimes, they get a bigger pot.

    If the team is giving you the maximum AFA and you are receiving the CHL education package, then you are probably able to graduate without debt. Good for them. But I don't consider that being "paid to go to school."
     

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