2018 U Sports Playoffs/University Cup (Fredericton, NB)

[MiamiHockey]

So the players who get CHL money + AFA’s are basically getting paid to go to school? I would think those would be more than enough to cover tuition/books/living expenses.

Foyle is 100% correct here. They earned their CHL scholarship by playing for free for 4-5 years.

Keep in mind that CHL players are not eligible for NCAA scholarships ... so, the CHL has developed the scholarship program to ensure that good student-athletes do not have to choose between playing Major-Junior versus getting their education paid for.

Nobody should question the value of the CHL scholarship. If anything, the players are still underpaid.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

I think I could have worded that better...and I absolutely agree junior players should get much more than they currently do (especially while still in junior).

I am just trying to get a sense of how much a typical player can get in scholarship money when everything is taken into account (CHL + AFA).

Now, the CHL money HAS to be used for tuition/books, correct? I assume AFA’s can be used however the student sees fit?

When I said “getting paid to go to school” I more or less meant that they can graduate without debt and use the rest of their scholarship money to take care of housing/food/etc. while in school.

 

[hockeyinsiderusports]

There are other funds provided from each conference which makes AUS premier option for CHL players compare to OUA/West especially OUA which is at biggest disadvantage compare to other two conferences

 

[MiamiHockey]

I think I could have worded that better...and I absolutely agree junior players should get much more than they currently do (especially while still in junior).

I am just trying to get a sense of how much a typical player can get in scholarship money when everything is taken into account (CHL + AFA).

Now, the CHL money HAS to be used for tuition/books, correct? I assume AFA’s can be used however the student sees fit?

When I said “getting paid to go to school” I more or less meant that they can graduate without debt and use the rest of their scholarship money to take care of housing/food/etc. while in school.

It's an interesting system.

The CHL team pays the post-secondary institution directly. Keep in mind that it's not only a university scholarship - many CHL grads use it to pay for college and/or trades training. So, yes, it has to be direct reimbursement for tuition / room & board / books. It's not a bursary paid to the student-athlete to use.

The AFA's, I believe, are like a scholarship in that they are typically paid to the student.

One note: In the past, there have been issues with CHL teams not living up to their financial commitments. It may be that the CHL now has a centralized system for paying the scholarship fees - I'm not 100% sure. But I do know that the CHL will only pay invoices from the post-secondary institution.

 

[AUS Fan]

Looking at recent comments there are several good points made and a bit of "defense" being played. I'd like to address the fan thing. I don't like when fans applaud an injury or boo a player who comes back on the ice after said injury. The thing in my mind that separates CIS hockey from CHL or Pro is that the players are students who happen to play hockey. They are there to entertain the fans, not to win at all cost. I get that everyone likes a winner, but try and be classy. I'm probably in a small group of people who can applaud a good play from the opposing team and NOT whine about my team making a mistake or blaming the ref for a penalty call. I'm also a fan of MY Conference. I spoke with several UNB fans on Sunday (wearing the colours) who were cheering for U of A over SFX. My team was not there so I supported UNB, Acadia and SFX as they played other teams. In the semi I was hoping for a good game and got that in spades. Same for the final. My life does not revolve around the results of AUS games. I go, I watch, I enjoy. I wish more people would adopt my approach. You'll probably live longer, or at least have less stress......

 

[GangGreen]

Excellent. Thanks for the info Drummer.
What is the reason why OUA schools impose that rule against AFA’s?
Are they not putting themselves at a competitive disadvantage by doing so?

 

[hockeyinsiderusports]

Oua is allowed 14 units of AFA (4500) which equals 63,000 per year. Rule was place to set athletic budget. However, big difference from oua to aus is school package (chl educational package) gets “reimbursed” to said player going aus school.

 

[Drummer]

Oua is allowed 14 units of AFA (4500) which

Excellent. Thanks for the info Drummer.
What is the reason why OUA schools impose that rule against AFA’s?
Are they not putting themselves at a competitive disadvantage by doing so?

Green - as you see from Hockey Insider, they do have AFAs, but cap them at $4500 and probably do not take advantage of the Academic All-Canadian rule (1 additional AFA for each AAC) while AUS & CW schools cap at the institution's tuition (UNB is $7660) and many increase the number of AFAs offered when they have AACs.
Also - an institution is under no obligation to offer AFAs (I would not be surprised if some OUA schools also scrimp on their AFAs offered), while AUS schools max out their AFAs.

This is self imposed for budgetary reasons, as Insider said, and creates a level playing field within the OUA, but a disadvantage nationally when compared to AUS and CW teams who take full advantage of the program.

The CHL program is centrally managed to avoid individual teams from mis-managing the program (there were horror stories in the past of players having to sue to get their money) and the funds are paid directly to the school on the players behalf. I believe each school pays their AFAs to the student through the financial office as well as a way to verify all of their fees have been paid. The student is then sent a reimbursement of their account balance (that they can use as they see fit - rent, power, phone, food, etc).

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Oua is allowed 14 units of AFA (4500) which equals 63,000 per year. Rule was place to set athletic budget. However, big difference from oua to aus is school package (chl educational package) gets “reimbursed” to said player going aus school.

Bottom line is that the OUA has chosen to cap their AFA's at $4500 (x 14). That is their call. Because of this I get tired of some OUA coaches/fans whining about how the AUS and CanWest give out more money, just because they max out their AFA's to the USports rule. The OUA could get together and change that cap tomorrow if they really wanted to.

The OUA is not the only conference with self-imposed rules. The AUS of course has the MacDougall rule, which limits rosters to 22 skaters and unlimited goalies - designed to limit the "crime" of teams **cough**UNB**cough** stocking up on skilled players to have more depth and injury replacements.

 

[AUS Fan]

"The AUS of course has the MacDougall rule, which limits rosters to 22 skaters and unlimited goalies - designed to limit the "crime" of teams **cough**UNB**cough** stocking up on skilled players to have more depth and injury replacements."

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

 

[STUTOMMIES]

"The AUS of course has the MacDougall rule, which limits rosters to 22 skaters and unlimited goalies - designed to limit the "crime" of teams **cough**UNB**cough** stocking up on skilled players to have more depth and injury replacements."

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

Good to see that some things never change. HA HA

I heard the X vs UNB game was a barn burner at Nationals. Good for X, good for CIS hockey.

Something that I have noticed, since I moved passed CIS hockey, very few people actually care. I didn't see one second of hockey this past weekend from nationals. Its not that I wouldn't watch but I had no idea when the games were on and whenever I was by the TV they weren't on. Didn't see any scores in the ticker, probably didn't wait long enough, and saw one highlight clip on Sunday night of the final. Was at a senior game in Perth-Andover on Friday night and nobody I spoke to even knew nationals were going on in Freddy.

 

[MiamiHockey]

The culture of the OUA is different. One might call it Mickey Mouse, as with a few exceptions the Athletic Directors in the OUA are not oriented towards competing for National Championships in any sport. I would suggest that Carleton, Laurier, and Western are the only OUA schools with any sort of pro-athlete culture.

Most OUA schools are not at all supportive of their athletics, giving no flexibility to coaches to bring in quality athletes. I know that Toronto, McGill, and Queen's have essentially zero flexibility in their admission standards, and it is a minor miracle that Kelly Nobes is able to field such a strong team at McGill given the limitations imposed upon his recruiting.

It wasn't that long ago that the OUA did not permit any AFA's, period, and they only acquiesced because they couldn't compete.

But you only need to look at how the OUA recently handled UQTR to see how Mickey Mouse they are. UQTR used an ineligible player in the playoffs last year, and for numerous games this year. Think about that: they used an ineligible team to help them in their run to the University Cup. The OUA would have still allowed them to compete in the playoffs this year. That's not how a professionally-run organization operates. What's to stop any OUA team from bringing in an ineligible player if they only have to forfeit a few games the following year?

 

[AUS Fan]

Good to see that some things never change. HA HA

I heard the X vs UNB game was a barn burner at Nationals. Good for X, good for CIS hockey.

Something that I have noticed, since I moved passed CIS hockey, very few people actually care. I didn't see one second of hockey this past weekend from nationals. Its not that I wouldn't watch but I had no idea when the games were on and whenever I was by the TV they weren't on. Didn't see any scores in the ticker, probably didn't wait long enough, and saw one highlight clip on Sunday night of the final. Was at a senior game in Perth-Andover on Friday night and nobody I spoke to even knew nationals were going on in Freddy.

Wow. A voice from the past...

The UNB-SFX game was one of the best I've seen in years. Had just about everything, including bad officiating.

I'm inclined to agree with you on the "few people actually care" comment. It's probably a big deal for fans in Fredericton (obviously) and perhaps fans of some teams participating. I'd be curious to see the TV numbers from the semis and Gold games. Like you once were, I'm a supporter of CIS hockey and, outside of seeing future NHL stars, find the game much better than CHL.

 

[Drummer]

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

Yes please, and crackers too (but not the salty ones though) and grapes would be great as well

 

[rethinking]

I don't think that Acadia is a real big fan of the AUS player cap or "MacDougall Rule" after their past season that was filled with injuries and a few suspensions.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

You could say the same for SMU last year.

Honestly, I wasn’t a fan of it when it was introduced (and still not really) but I don’t think it has had the negative impact many of us thought it would.

Maybe I’m saying this because UNB has been relatively healthy the last 2-3 years and I would be singing a different tune if they were routinely playing game with 15 skaters, but it’s not even a big deal to me now. In hindsight, having 6-7 guys sitting every game was kind of ridiculous.

 

[rethinking]

UNB might have been impacted to a degree a year ago when Boudens was playing as one of five D in a couple of games?

 

[AUS Fan]

You could say the same for SMU last year.

Honestly, I wasn’t a fan of it when it was introduced (and still not really) but I don’t think it has had the negative impact many of us thought it would.

Maybe I’m saying this because UNB has been relatively healthy the last 2-3 years and I would be singing a different tune if they were routinely playing game with 15 skaters, but it’s not even a big deal to me now. In hindsight, having 6-7 guys sitting every game was kind of ridiculous.

Wow, an honest UNB fan. Thanks for that.......

Gardiner used the NCAA model where you had 30 guys competing for 18 spots. It certainly makes it a bit easier to get guys to "fall in line" when you can hold playing time over their heads. Other teams had a few guys who would never play unless there was an injury.

 

[Bob Stauffer]

What did legendary Alabama Head Coach Bear Bryant say?
"The Coach that walks off the bus with the best players is the best Coach!"

When Rob Daum was Alberta, the Golden Bears got for the most part the best players from the WHL. Daum won 3 National titles in his last 7 seasons, and his 2 best teams 2000-01 and 2003-04 didn't win.
Eric Thurston started getting challenged by AUS schools (primarily UNB, X, and Acadia) for the Kyle Bailey and Daine Todd's out of the WHL..
Stan Marple in his role as U of A GM has swung the momentum back to Alberta's way IMO.
This is part of the reason why the Golden Bears have won 3 National titles in the last 5 seasons, 2 of which were won in the Atlantic.
The Bears program came to terms with the realization that UNB and other AUS were playing for keeps...time for the OUA to start thinking that way too!

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

UNB might have been impacted to a degree a year ago when Boudens was playing as one of five D in a couple of games?

They have had some games here and there where they were down to 4 or 5 defenseman...but nothing too long term. Besides, it’s hard to feel too bad when they left a roster spot open all last year and two open this season (three in the first half).

 

[rethinking]

UNB Bruins Fan, that's why I said to a degree. Gardiner really likes to go for the "home run" on some recruits and is willing to wait even until Christmas at times.
When teams are playing shorthanded like Acadia this year, and SMU and UNB, to a degree the year before I think they become more prone to injury and that should be a concern for these student athletes.

 

[Rob]

"The AUS of course has the MacDougall rule, which limits rosters to 22 skaters and unlimited goalies - designed to limit the "crime" of teams **cough**UNB**cough** stocking up on skilled players to have more depth and injury replacements."

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

The rule is ridiculous. UNB was not breaking any rules with their recruiting. The problem was that UNB was becoming too successful. It was done out of spite.

 

[AUS Fan]

The rule is ridiculous. UNB was not breaking any rules with their recruiting. The problem was that UNB was becoming too successful. It was done out of spite.

I don't disagree with your assessment. But I also notice that it hasn't hurt them on the ice. So your point is kinda moot.

Further to this, CIS hockey is NOT a win-at-all-cost league, so I don't see the need to stock the cupboard with every top-end player you can get.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

They have arguably been more successful since it’s been implemented.

Who it has hurt the most are the guys who would be recruited as a “project”. You probably won’t see UNB bringing in guys like Dion Campbell or Spencer Corcoran anymore...guys who were brought in to be a depth player but eventually worked their way into the lineup. I doubt a top team now would tie up a roster spot or two for these type of guys so the opportunities for them are probably no longer there.

 

[Drummer]

They have arguably been more successful since it’s been implemented.

Who it has hurt the most are the guys who would be recruited as a “project”. You probably won’t see UNB bringing in guys like Dion Campbell or Spencer Corcoran anymore...guys who were brought in to be a depth player but eventually worked their way into the lineup. I doubt a top team now would tie up a roster spot or two for these type of guys so the opportunities for them are probably no longer there.

Exactly those players are now marginalized

As well as a Matias Keranen, Ryan Mockler, Andreas Johansson, Steve Pearce, Jeff Wilson or Lachlen MacIntosh.

Note: I believe there was a UNB/UPEI game in the second half this season where they only had 13 guys - not good.