NFL: 2018 NFL draft prospects thread

[What the Faulk]

Sure, but we still don't know how effective these other guys are gonna be. They could be top 10 guys, if less dynsmic. Plus the other talent they can get with the picks gained. It certainly isn't worth the freakouts that a lot of people went through.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'd feel better about their future if it were Scotty Mac making these moves. Dorsey is overrated by the NFL media. He's a decent personnel guy but some are acting like he's John McVay.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Orlando Brown Jr declared yesterday too. Probably the best Tackle prospect in the draft. Huge man with great feet and agility. Son of former All-Pro lineman Orlando "Zeus" Brown. His career was cut short because of dumbass Jeff Triplette hitting him in the eye with a flag.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Brown was never an all pro or even pro bowl OL

And he came back from injury and played until he was 35

 

[Gene Parmesan]

The dude couldn't play for 3 years. That's essentially a retirement since he came back and wasn't nearly the same player. I know nuance is hard for you but try and think outside of your black and white worldview.

 

[Hasbro]

Sure, but we still don't know how effective these other guys are gonna be. They could be top 10 guys, if less dynsmic. Plus the other talent they can get with the picks gained. It certainly isn't worth the freakouts that a lot of people went through.

You got any quantitative analysis of the relative value of a capable QB versus other positions draft value combined with enduring 37 losses in two years?

 

[What the Faulk]

You got any quantitative analysis of the relative value of a capable QB versus other positions draft value combined with enduring 37 losses in two years?

Literally have no idea what point you're trying to make with this smartass comment. Do we really think Watson, who has now torn the ACL in both knees, would be the same player throwing to Corey Coleman and, f***, I don't know, Ricardo Louis? as he was when he threw to DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller?

Everyone thinks the draft is so easy like Mariota, Winston, and Bortles haven't largely struggled as top three picks. It's not like Watson was a slam dunk, can't miss prospect that was going to make the difference in the 2017 Browns' success. So maybe they would have won 4 games instead of 0. Who cares. Now they are set up to still get a franchise QB, they have an athletic "safety" in Peppers, and have a free #4 pick to add whatever they want.

You're basically talking about the difference in Watson and the ~#4 versus whichever QB they want at #1, the #4, and Peppers. It's asinine that this is still a thing. There are QBs available every year. You still a need a team around them or you're just going to waste their potential.

EDIT: Look at Cam Newton. He had a fantastic rookie year and helped them win a grand total of 4 more games, but it wasn't until they added players like Kuechly that they ended up having sustained success. A QB matters a lot, obviously, but they're generally not going to do it on their own.

 

[StreetHawk]

More often than not, a rookie QB doesn't have much of an OL to protect him or generate a sound running game, lack weapons, and the D isn't that good.

QB can only do so much.

Cleveland should solidify their OL with the extra picks that they got. Thomas won't be around forever. Again, lots of wear and.tear with 10k plus snaps played. They own both Houston's top 2 picks.

Get QB, then a tackle, maybe another OL if that is an area they can upgrade, then add a weapon. Or build up the D.

 

[Hasbro]

Literally have no idea what point you're trying to make with this smartass comment. Do we really think Watson, who has now torn the ACL in both knees, would be the same player throwing to Corey Coleman and, ****, I don't know, Ricardo Louis? as he was when he threw to DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller?

Didn't these statistical geniuses draft 4 wrs two years ago?

Everyone thinks the draft is so easy like Mariota, Winston, and Bortles haven't largely struggled as top three picks. It's not like Watson was a slam dunk, can't miss prospect that was going to make the difference in the 2017 Browns' success. So maybe they would have won 4 games instead of 0. Who cares. Now they are set up to still get a franchise QB, they have an athletic "safety" in Peppers, and have a free #4 pick to add whatever they want.

You're basically talking about the difference in Watson and the ~#4 versus whichever QB they want at #1, the #4, and Peppers. It's asinine that this is still a thing. There are QBs available every year. You still a need a team around them or you're just going to waste their potential.

EDIT: Look at Cam Newton. He had a fantastic rookie year and helped them win a grand total of 4 more games, but it wasn't until they added players like Kuechly that they ended up having sustained success. A QB matters a lot, obviously, but they're generally not going to do it on their own.

And they made it harder on themselves, produced one of the worst stretches of football in history, possibly scared off the top prospects and are back at square 1. Whatever the value of these extra picks having a QB to build around is much more valuable than the #12 and #4. And since they can take a while to develop starting earlier with the luxury of Thomas to guide his blindside.

 

[What the Faulk]

There's a difference in correctly accumulating value in picks (something which nobody criticizes teams like the Patriots for doing) and your scouting department finding the right players and your coaching staff effectively putting those players in a position to succeed. The Browns seem to be lacking in two of three departments.

You're really starting to get on my nerves with how proud you are of your ignorance, to be honest. It's really changed my opinion of you on a poster.

 

[Baxterman]

It seems a little disingenuous to credit them with making a deal that got them the #4 pick this year since that was based on 100% and in no way would have been the expected outcome.

Even still if you are saying would you rather have Watson or #1, #4 and Peppers I would probably take Watson and that is with my concerns that he loves giving the ball away way too much.

 

[Hasbro]

There's a difference in correctly accumulating value in picks (something which nobody criticizes teams like the Patriots for doing) and your scouting department finding the right players and your coaching staff effectively putting those players in a position to succeed. The Browns seem to be lacking in two of three departments.

You're really starting to get on my nerves with how proud you are of your ignorance, to be honest. It's really changed my opinion of you on a poster.

A big reason the Pats can do that: THEY HAVEN'T HAD TO WORRY ABOUT THE QB POSITION FOR A QUARTER CENTURY!

Trying to emulate the Pats methods has done much good for anyone for that matter.

Hell, Sashi's predecessor was smart enough to trade down into the 1st too. I missed the candle light vigil for him.

 

[StreetHawk]

It seems a little disingenuous to credit them with making a deal that got them the #4 pick this year since that was based on 100% and in no way would have been the expected outcome.

Even still if you are saying would you rather have Watson or #1, #4 and Peppers I would probably take Watson and that is with my concerns that he loves giving the ball away way too much.

If the browns had Watson, they merely at worst go from #1 OA to inside the top 10. Could Watson really help them.win more than 6 games realistically? So, they still get a valuable player with their own pick.

If Watson doesn't tear his ACL they don't get as high as #4 IMO. Likely around #10-12. So, luck does have something to do with it.

So, in the end it's Watson and a top 10 pick or it's #1 pick, peppers, and #4 pick.

Really a wash between where the browns finish with Watson and the Houston pick.

So, down to Watson vs QB at #1 and peppers. Who will be the better QB?

 

[Baxterman]

Watson may not help them win much this year (thanks to them having a complete moron for a GM and coach) but he certainly could help them long term.

And I would take him over any of the QBs this year.

 

[Rhodes 81]

There's a lot more wrong with the Browns than one player regardless of their position, which is why stockpiling as many picks as they can get is the right move for them.

 

[What the Faulk]

Well, so much for he and Darnold returning to school.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Lamar's ideal landing spot would be New Orleans or LAC. He doesn't have to start right away. Plus a backfield of Jackson, Ingram and Kamara with Payton calling plays would be pretty dope.

 

[Hasbro]

K, when you're done reveling in being a dumbass, maybe I'll start reading your posts again.

Outside of the nebulous "The Pats use analytics" is there any evidence that stat whacking is a magic bullet in football? Because 1-37 is a pretty strong indictment.

It's become a cult in sports lately.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'm pretty sure every team has an analytical staff. They use it as a tool in evaluation.

 

[Hasbro]

I'm pretty sure every team has an analytical staff. They use it as a tool in evaluation.

That I know. What I'm not seeing is any positive results or edge gained.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[Gene Parmesan]

That I know. What I'm not seeing is any positive results or edge gained.

How are we supposed to know?

 

[Hasbro]

How are we supposed to know?

The data is available to the general public. Have predictions or draft accuracy gotten any better?

The hilariously bad passer rating gets used constantly, which makes me suspicious.

The local bunch of bloggers who regurgitated PFF somehow came to the conclusion that the Broncos firing McDaniels was some how a disaster.

With regards to history analytics is really nothing but a cherry picked debunking formula.

There was also the recent reign of error on the Lake. I am being told how brilliant the worst two seasons in history are by the residents of Stattown, Guyana.

 

[InjuredChoker]

The data is available to the general public.

or some teams have way more advanced stuff that they would never want to become public?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Teams don't disclose what metrics they use. That'd be kind of stupid. If anything way too many cling to outdated metrics like passer ratings and completion percentage. Not to mention counting stats like yards. Teams still miss on guys like Danielle Hunter and Yannik Ngakoue, who graded out well in regards in advanced pass rushing metrics but had underwhelming counting stats. I haven't seen anyone say the Browns are a success.