2017 Offseason Thread 5.0 Summer Doldrums

[Kingsfan1]

Even if Fattenberg impresses and makes the NHL, Kings won't play a line-up with LaDue, Fattenberg, Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, and Forbort - that's pretty much 5 puck movers and 1 stay at home guy - a few of those guys are barely 6' and really inexperienced. Kings have been after Folin for awhile - I think he is a lock for the #6 spot and LaDue either has the #5 spot or rotates for Fattenberg.

Maybe something crazy happens where Fattenberg makes it and LaDue goes to the AHL and it's Fattenberg-Folin with McD as the extra...give LaDue an extra year in the AHL considering he barely played a full year. The only concern is his age, he is already 25.

I know Kings want competition but they signed two players in Folin and Fattenberg to a one year deals who both aren't in the long term plans and are mid 20's, while they spent considerable time with McD and LaDue and now the first two might knock out the other two.

Who is going to clear the front of the net? This might be the softest D in the league.

Ain't happening up Blake and Stevens. Folin is in or McD is in.

I'm not so sure about LaDue. Whoever is waiver eligible stays and whoever isn't goes.

News flash , this is what hockey has become. It's about playing fast pace and scoring. There are no more hard to play against players , the league overall is becoming soft and when we stay with slow tough to play against players that's why we haven't won more than a single game in the playoffs the last 3 years. We need to evolve with the rest of the league hence why Blake is going for skill and offense in Fantenberg and his draft picks and lineup. We need 5 puck movers move the puck up ice fast and transition to offense. We don't need any crease clearers we need the puck up ice as fast as possible and skill. Haven't you realized more rookies keep making the league and veterans are losing their jobs faster. These youngsters are skilled fast and are having more success nowadays.

I wouldn't be surprised if Clague makes the team in 2 years , Vilardi , Amadio the league is going to keep getting younger and faster . You can't even touch a player anymore these days everything is a penalty.

Edit: Macdermid is a terrible hockey player , sure he is tough but he sucks and is far away from being NHL ready. You don't play a player for the sake of being tough. He will be the biggest liability on the ice. If you think Mcd makes it then your going to be disappointed. All signs point to our defense being Forbort-Doughty, Muzzin-Martinez and Fantenberg-Ladue or one of Muzzin and Martinez switching around partners with Fantenberg and Ladue.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Its been reported many times that Colorado is looking for a young top 4 defenseman. They will have no interest in Martinez or Muzzin. If a trade goes down, they will want LaDue or Clague, plus a prospect and pick.

I would be willing to pull off that trade considering we are in win now mode. Although if I had to pick, I would rather keep LaDue since he is NHL ready now.

Something like Clague, Kempe, and a 2nd for Duchene. Do it Blakey.

I would definitely trade Clague for Duchene but we will regret trading Clague down the line. He is going to be a superstar. He is an ideal defenseman for the modern NHL and has top 3 potential

 

[member 88115]

Even Doughty has always needed a bigger defender from Scuderi, Muzzin, McNabb to Forbort. Doughty with Martinez or Voynov (when he was with the team) never worked because they would get physically worked over. To ice Fatenberg-Martinez (did not even work with Muzzin) is as bad as having Modry-Randy Jones back in the day.

I hope MacDermid sticks as the 7th D (since is a rookie). Really like how the team responded after the hit. They seem to pick it up the pace, not just skating but playing with more in the sack.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I would definitely trade Clague for Duchene but we will regret trading Clague down the line. He is going to be a superstar. He is an ideal defenseman for the modern NHL and has top 3 potential

You have a very liberal sense of what a superstar is.

 

[The Tikkanen]

You have a very liberal sense of what a superstar is.

He's young, he's a King, he's a superstar here. Can't miss if you will.

 

[SlimCharles]

I would definitely trade Clague for Duchene but we will regret trading Clague down the line. He is going to be a superstar. He is an ideal defenseman for the modern NHL and has top 3 potential

 

[Sol]

Seriously, what the hell happened to Dreger's connections? Guy has lost a lot of credibility.

 

[The Night King]

 

[KingsHockey24]

I dig it.

 

[SlimCharles]

I like.

 

[Kingsfan1]

You have a very liberal sense of what a superstar is.

lol I'm very high on the kid. Every once in a while teams get lucky and pull out superstars in the later rounds I think Clague is going to be a top 3 defenseman who can score 50 points in the NHL someday.

 

[deeshamrock]

On TSNs insider trading, Darren Dreger mentioned the Kings as one of the eight teams in contact with Sakic about Matt Duchene. Also made it sound like a deal isn't very close at the moment.

If something were to happen, I could see a deal revolving around Martinez and Kempe. We do have a surplus of defenseman at the moment.

The reason Duchene hasn't been traded already is because Sakic is (as Elliotte friedman said a GM told him) looking for a 'unicorn'. The asking price - A top young d, a top prospect, a top player and a #1 pick.

The Kings might be calling Sakic but they can't compete with the some of the offers on table by other teams, Carolina esp.. And Martinez isn't an option, that's not what the Avs are looking for.

From what Bobby Mac and EF have theorized, the Canes and Blue Jackets have the inside edge. If Sakic's head was screwed on right and he had a clue, the trade would have happened last spring, or over the summer...
He's got his back to the wall now, and I think a deal is imminent, by what has been reported.

 

[AlphaBravo]

The reason Duchene hasn't been traded already is because Sakic is (as Elliotte friedman said a GM told him) looking for a 'unicorn'. The asking price - A top young d, a top prospect, a top player and a #1 pick.

The Kings might be calling Sakic but they can't compete with the some of the offers on table by other teams, Carolina esp.. And Martinez isn't an option, that's not what the Avs are looking for.

From what Bobby Mac and EF have theorized, the Canes and Blue Jackets have the inside edge. If Sakic's head was screwed on right and he had a clue, the trade would have happened last spring, or over the summer...
He's got his back to the wall now, and I think a deal is imminent, by what has been reported.

Sakic has been a horrible GM. As an initial matter, he should have never floated Duchene as a trade target. He is a talented center and gives the team a one-two punch down the middle. Colorado has some good pieces in place to build off of and should just be patient and draft a defenseman or take their chances on college free agents and free agency like the Kings are doing with Folin and Fantenburg.

 

[YP44]

The reason Duchene hasn't been traded already is because Sakic is (as Elliotte friedman said a GM told him) looking for a 'unicorn'. The asking price - A top young d, a top prospect, a top player and a #1 pick.

The Kings might be calling Sakic but they can't compete with the some of the offers on table by other teams, Carolina esp.. And Martinez isn't an option, that's not what the Avs are looking for.

From what Bobby Mac and EF have theorized, the Canes and Blue Jackets have the inside edge. If Sakic's head was screwed on right and he had a clue, the trade would have happened last spring, or over the summer...
He's got his back to the wall now, and I think a deal is imminent, by what has been reported.

I would be ok with Claque, Kempe, 2nd and a conditional 2019 1st (based on Duchene re-siging, if not it becomes another 2nd), but don't think I would go much higher.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sakic has been a horrible GM. As an initial matter, he should have never floated Duchene as a trade target. He is a talented center and gives the team a one-two punch down the middle. Colorado has some good pieces in place to build off of and should just be patient and draft a defenseman or take their chances on college free agents and free agency like the Kings are doing with Folin and Fantenburg.

Colorado has missed the playoffs in 6 of the last 7 seasons, their last playoff appearance coming in 2014 under Patrick Roy, when they somehow put together a 52-win season. They haven't had more than 39 wins in the last three years.

They've also had three different coaches in those seven years. So I ask, how much more patient should they be with a roster that doesn't deliver results? Much like we've said about the Kings, they have a ton of underachievers on the team, and a terrible GM leading the charge with a series of questionable decisions.

 

[YP44]

why are there two different shades of black?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

News flash , this is what hockey has become. It's about playing fast pace and scoring. There are no more hard to play against players , the league overall is becoming soft and when we stay with slow tough to play against players that's why we haven't won more than a single game in the playoffs the last 3 years. We need to evolve with the rest of the league hence why Blake is going for skill and offense in Fantenberg and his draft picks and lineup. We need 5 puck movers move the puck up ice fast and transition to offense. We don't need any crease clearers we need the puck up ice as fast as possible and skill. Haven't you realized more rookies keep making the league and veterans are losing their jobs faster. These youngsters are skilled fast and are having more success nowadays.

I wouldn't be surprised if Clague makes the team in 2 years , Vilardi , Amadio the league is going to keep getting younger and faster . You can't even touch a player anymore these days everything is a penalty.

Edit: Macdermid is a terrible hockey player , sure he is tough but he sucks and is far away from being NHL ready. You don't play a player for the sake of being tough. He will be the biggest liability on the ice. If you think Mcd makes it then your going to be disappointed. All signs point to our defense being Forbort-Doughty, Muzzin-Martinez and Fantenberg-Ladue or one of Muzzin and Martinez switching around partners with Fantenberg and Ladue.

I don't disagree with the general sentiment but I think it's a mistake to assume it's a binary ("you're good" or "you're tough"). Players can be big and tough AND skilled/quick. They need to stick up for each other regardless. My qualm isn't not having a team of crushers, it's having a team that's passive when Doughty gets rocked.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

why are there two different shades of black?

A clear cut copy and paste job.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Colorado has missed the playoffs in 6 of the last 7 seasons, their last playoff appearance coming in 2014 under Patrick Roy, when they somehow put together a 52-win season. They haven't had more than 39 wins in the last three years.

They've also had three different coaches in those seven years. So I ask, how much more patient should they be with a roster that doesn't deliver results? Much like we've said about the Kings, they have a ton of underachievers on the team, and a terrible GM leading the charge with a series of questionable decisions.

Edmonton was in the same boat - skilled players on the team with revolving coaches - and they finally came out of the funk. I know that they got extremely lucky with McJesus and he is a big part of their turn around, but it was also critical for them to shore up their roster with other key players such as Lucic, Larsson etc.

If Colorado does well in drafting the next two years (which are considered deep drafts), then they can have the flexibility to get depth players and trade assets for an experienced defenseman. With the right additional pieces, they can retool pretty quickly, considering the talent they have on their roster with McKinnen, Duchene, Landeskog etc.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Edmonton was in the same boat - skilled players on the team with revolving coaches - and they finally came out of the funk. I know that they got extremely lucky with McJesus and he is a big part of their turn around, but it was also critical for them to shore up their roster with other key players such as Lucic, Larsson etc.

If Colorado does well in drafting the next two years (which are considered deep drafts), then they can have the flexibility to get depth players and trade assets for an experienced defenseman. With the right additional pieces, they can retool pretty quickly, considering the talent they have on their roster with McKinnen, Duchene, Landeskog etc.

I think part of the problem is that bad coaching has hampered the development, creativity and skills for the aforementioned players: they've shown signs of regression under Bednar.

McKinnon was supposed to be their McDavid, but these guys are looking more like Taylor Hall's, good players who can contribute, but no true leaders who can carry the pressure and workload to help carry a team to success.

They've looked disinterested and look like a team that has no direction or motivation to compete. Like you pointed out, they look like the Oilers of previous years.

 

[damacles1156]

Colorado's problems started once Jamie McGinn, Paul Stastny, Ryan O'Reilly all left the team. I think Ryan O'Reilly is a very underrated hockey player.

That is a lot of leadership that was out the door.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Colorado's problems started once Jamie McGinn, Paul Stastny, Ryan O'Reilly all left the team. I think Ryan O'Reilly is a very underrated hockey player.

That is a lot of leadership that was out the door.

Yep, and they got nothing back for Stastny and every asset acquired in the O'Reilly/McGinn trade from Buffalo has turned out to be a dud. Some horrible asset management there.

 

[EXTRAS]

Odds on fattenburg making the team?

 

[kingsboy11]

Odds on fattenburg making the team?

He's up against Folin, Gravel, and MacDermid for the 6th and 7th defenseman spot. I personally think he's a 50/50 chance of making the team competing with Gravel for the last spot and Folin makes it as the 6th defenseman. Fantenberg looks excellent moving the puck, but Gravel has been in the system a lot longer than him and probably gets the benefit of the doubt.

 

[KingTrouty]

Hockey in China. NFL in England.