2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

[drax0s]

Just because he quoted you doesn't mean he's responding solely to you. He's responding to the thread. He's responding to all the drones who liked your post. He's responding for the people.

You are crazy if you think Tkachuk isn't going to make it us the this draft. He'll absolutely be avail at 7.

 

[Fatass]

By definition it's made up? Uhh...might want to re-check that definition.

For the record, I do believe Benning turned down that offer. I have zero reason to believe that Canucks Army fabricated that.

You do realize you’re say Doug Wilson is a fool, right? Maybe there was an offer, but it included a very valuable young asset along with Miller for number 9? Wouldn’t that make way more sense?

 

[Melvin]

You are crazy if you think Tkachuk isn't going to make it us the this draft. He'll absolutely be avail at 7.

Yes. We especially should have had more draft picks in the 2016 draft. That whole thing was an abomination.

 

[drax0s]

Yes. We especially should have had more draft picks in the 2016 draft. That whole thing was an abomination.

There's no way Brandon Sutter is worth that contract + a retroactive NMC. That's absolute garbage.

This is fun and easy to keep track of.

 

[Melvin]

There's no way Brandon Sutter is worth that contract + a retroactive NMC. That's absolute garbage.

This is fun and easy to keep track of.

I have to disagree with you there. Deadpool 2 was an absolutely miserable, tortuous steaming pile of garbage.

 

[drax0s]

I have to disagree with you there. Deadpool 2 was an absolutely miserable, tortuous steaming pile of garbage.

Well now you're just being difficult.

 

[Melvin]

Well now you're just being difficult.

Yeah, but have you considered the effect on the Polish?

 

[I in the Eye]

The Canucks operate each season to be 'competitive'...At no time before, or during last season did JB say the Canucks 'are' a playoff team..Last season was all about being competitive...What else are you going to say to the ticket buying public?..They were gunning for the playoffs from 2015-17 (which we both agree was dumb),but not last year.

They tried to fill every hole they felt they had, in the offseason, with a veteran UFA. They praised themselves for new found depth, to sustain injuries (and make the playoffs). They were absolutely gunning for the playoffs, last year as well. It was changed, the message from "playoffs" to "competitive"... and perhaps the next message will be, "on the ice" (they plan to be, "on the ice")... but each year, they are gunning for the playoffs. The farther away the playoffs get, the more ridiculous it sounds (even to them)... so they change what they say to things that sound less ridiculous. They do say the right things, at times. They just don't follow through. Things like, "earn, not given". Benning is a cliche machine he got from stone carvings. Despite being very honest, there are still a disconnect between what they say, and what they do, because they are incompetent, and don't know what they are doing. There is a "Knowing-Doing Gap" (https://www.amazon.ca/Knowing-Doing-Gap-Companies-Knowledge-Action/dp/1578511240). There is nothing concrete guiding their overall implementation. They are a short sighted, non-strategic organization, who's implementation is focused on what is in front of them on a given day). There is very little substance. There is nothing smart in what they do (except the 2017 draft, which was clearly smarter, and different then whatever they were able to muster in the past, the minute it ended).

JB didn't do any crazy deadline deals when the Canucks were in the playoffs in 2015,so we don't have that history to go on..The rest is you speculating would JB might do.

Pittsburgh does indeed make future moves but when you have a core of Crosby,Malkin etc...losing a player like Pouliot barely moves the needle (especially when they acquired Justin Schultz,which made Pouliot redundant)..The Canucks don't have that depth as an organization...(Canucks drafting 2005-13)

I'm optimistic for the team...Next season we should finally start getting to see the emergence of the new core..Horvat,Petterson,Demko,Gaudette,Boeser,Virtanen..and hopefully Juolevi and Dahlen as well..Nothing re-tarded about that.

The "new core" (replacing Benning's "old core") should be a lot better (and deeper) than it is. That it's not is evidence of the "re-tarding" the last 4 years. What the current prospect pool says is that the NHL rewards all teams, even the "re-tarding" ones. There is no bottom feeding team without promising prospects. A bottom feeder should have a top 10 prospect pool... that is a very low bar. If Benning gets praise for this, he should also get praised for dressing himself in a suit, or just showing up to the office. It is bare minimum expected results. That he gets extraordinary praise for the prospect pool under his direction and signature (making all his other deficiencies tolerable), to me, is insane. A potato could do a similar job. But, yes, at least the prospect pool isn't a complete mess like practically everything else under his watch. Good job, I guess, for that.

 

[y2kcanucks]

You do realize you’re say Doug Wilson is a fool, right? Maybe there was an offer, but it included a very valuable young asset along with Miller for number 9? Wouldn’t that make way more sense?

I don't care what you or even I may think about the deal. I'm looking at facts. And the fact is a reputable media organization like Canucks Army, that has press pass credentials with the Canucks, reported that they turned down the 9th overall pick for Ryan Miller. That was what they wrote. How we may interpret whether that's a good deal or not for either team is our own opinion, which has zero bearing on what actually happened.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

They tried to fill every hole they felt they had, in the offseason, with a veteran UFA. They praised themselves for new found depth, to sustain injuries (and make the playoffs). They were absolutely gunning for the playoffs, last year as well. It was changed, the message from "playoffs" to "competitive"... and perhaps the next in message will be "on the ice" (they plan to be "on the ice")... but each year, they are gunning for the playoffs. The farther away the playoffs get, the more ridiculous it sounds (even to them)... so they change what they say to things that sound less ridiculous. They do say the right things, at times. They just don't follow through. Things like, "earn, not given". Benning is a cliche machine he got from stone carvings. Despite being very honest, there are still a disconnect between what they say, and what they do, because they are incompetent, and don't know what they are doing. There is nothing guiding their overall implementation. They are short sighted, and knee jerk.



The "new core" (replacing Benning's "old core") should be a lot better (and deeper) than it is. That it's not is evidence of the "re-tarding" the last 4 years. What the current prospect pool says is that the NHL rewards all teams, even the "re-tarding" ones. There is no bottom feeding team without promising prospects. A bottom feeder should have a top 10 prospect pool... that is a very low bar. If Benning gets praise for this, he should also get praised for dressing himself in a suit, or just showing up to the office. It is bare minimum expected results. That he gets extraordinary praise for the prospect pool under his direction and signature (making all his other deficiencies tolerable), to me, is insane. A potato could do a similar job. But, yes, at least the prospect pool isn't a complete mess like practically everything else under his watch. Good job, I guess, for that.

The Canucks filled up their roster with replacement players..If you thought that MDZ,Burmistrov,Vanek and Gagner were going to be the elixir that get's us in the playoffs then there's not really much to discuss...JB didn't even bother to acquire a true#1 goalie...Also.from the very outset last season,they had no idea what kind of numbers Boeser would put up...The management knew that last year wasn't their year,so did everybody else....The rest is your opinion.

We've been a bottom feeder in 3 drafts,not 4....You've obviously completely forgotten that the cupboard was virtually empty in 2014.

Its so easy to sit back and be an 'armchair GM"...and most of them are dedicated coach 'potatoes'..so I can see why you think that they would do a better job.

 

[I in the Eye]

The Canucks filled up their roster with replacement players..If you thought that MDZ,Burmistrov,Vanek and Gagner were going to be the elixir that get's us in the playoffs then there's not really much to discuss...JB didn't even bother to acquire a true#1 goalie...Also.from the very outset last season,they had no idea what kind of numbers Boeser would put up...The management knew that last year wasn't their year,so did everybody else....The rest is your opinion.

We've been a bottom feeder in 3 drafts,not 4....You've obviously completely forgotten that the cupboard was virtually empty in 2014.

Its so easy to sit back and be an 'armchair GM"...and most of them are dedicated coach 'potatoes'..so I can see why you think that they would do a better job.

It was a weaker UFA year, and yet, Benning snagged 3 what was considered to be the top 15/20. You say replacement level, I say, the best that he could get... being a shitty team.

No, I don't think they were going to be the elixir that gets us into the playoffs. I'm saying, Benning did (or if he didn't think it, he was sure hoping it... I'd imagine that he'd get less confident in himself the more years of bottom feeding results that pile up). He'd be the first one to pat himself on the back if the Canucks were a playoff team last year, on the backs of his signings. He made moves to try and be a playoff team. Benning acquired a goaltender to duel it out with Markstrom. He thought it would work.

Right, bottom feeder in 4 drafts, next year, not this one. The Canucks were still riding on the previous regime's team in 2014.

It's irrelevant if posters are couch potatoes, or not. How difficult or not GMing is, also irrelevant. That posters may or may not think GMing is easy, irrelevant. What is relevant, is that Benning has done a terrible job the last 4 years... and the one shining light, the prospect pool, should be better and deeper than it is, given how shitty of a job that's been done. Think what you want, about me, about other posters... It can't distract from the fact that Benning is a piss poor GM. If the Canucks assembled the prospect pool they have (exactly, or similar to, what they have now... or what the potato would have recommended), while being a playoff team, I'd be saying what a great job Benning is doing. It would be undeniable. But you know, just as much as I do, that the only reason the prospect pool is in the top 10, is because the Canucks suck... and, clearly, on the ice, the Canucks suck. The prospect pool would not be the same in quality if the Canucks were a playoff team the last 3 years, instead of a bottom feeder... and yet, the prospect pool would be the same in quantity... and that is pathetic bottom feeder team GMing. Rebuilding... bullshit.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The Canucks filled up their roster with replacement players..If you thought that MDZ,Burmistrov,Vanek and Gagner were going to be the elixir that get's us in the playoffs then there's not really much to discuss...JB didn't even bother to acquire a true#1 goalie...Also.from the very outset last season,they had no idea what kind of numbers Boeser would put up...The management knew that last year wasn't their year,so did everybody else....The rest is your opinion.

What made you think @I in the Eye thought they would be a playoff team?

We've been a bottom feeder in 3 drafts,not 4....You've obviously completely forgotten that the cupboard was virtually empty in 2014.

Its so easy to sit back and be an 'armchair GM"...and most of them are dedicated coach 'potatoes'..so I can see why you think that they would do a better job.

You saw here http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...ead-what-players-would-a-potato-pick.2496373/ how a simple math formula does vs Benning.

Can you explain why you are not convinced by that model?

 

[RobertKron]

You saw here http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...ead-what-players-would-a-potato-pick.2496373/ how a simple math formula does vs Benning.

Can you explain why you are not convinced by that model?

IIRC, Pastor claims that the data has been doctored.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

It was a weaker UFA year, and yet, Benning snagged 3 what was considered to be the top 15/20. You say replacement level, I say, the best that he could get... being a ****ty team.

No, I don't think they were going to be the elixir that gets us into the playoffs. I'm saying, Benning did (or if he didn't think it, he was sure hoping it... I'd imagine that he'd get less confident in himself the more years of bottom feeding results that pile up). He'd be the first one to pat himself on the back if the Canucks were a playoff team last year, on the backs of his signings. He made moves to try and be a playoff team. Benning acquired a goaltender to duel it out with Markstrom. He thought it would work.

Right, bottom feeder in 4 drafts, next year, not this one. The Canucks were still riding on the previous regime's team in 2014.

It's irrelevant if posters are couch potatoes, or not. How difficult or not GMing is, also irrelevant. That posters may or may not think GMing is easy, irrelevant. What is relevant, is that Benning has done a terrible job the last 4 years... and the one shining light, the prospect pool, should be better and deeper than it is, given how ****ty of a job that's been done. Think what you want, about me, about other posters... It can't distract from the fact that Benning is a piss poor GM. If the Canucks assembled the prospect pool they have (exactly, or similar to, what they have now... or what the potato would have recommended), while being a playoff team, I'd be saying what a great job Benning is doing. It would be undeniable. But you know, just as much as I do, that the only reason the prospect pool is in the top 10, is because the Canucks suck... and, clearly, on the ice, the Canucks suck. The prospect pool would not be the same in quality if the Canucks were a playoff team the last 3 years, instead of a bottom feeder... and yet, the prospect pool would be the same in quantity... and that is pathetic bottom feeder team GMing. Rebuilding... bull****.

-Yes,replacement level players on short term deals ..no NTC's...
-So, you think that Anders Nilsson and Markstrom were going to duel it out,and Benning was going to hedge his bets on these guys getting him in the playoffs..?..(neither have ever established themselves as an NHL solid #1)..good one.
-Agreed that the Canucks were still riding the previous regimes core in 2014..(or what was left of it)
-lots of Benning trash talk,which you're entitled to.. and your trashing the team a bit too...
-I don't think anything less of you,or any of the posters on this site..Its only a game,and an opinion on sport..Lifes too short.

 

[F A N]

-So Anders Nilsson and Markstrom were going to duel it out,and Benning hedged his bets on these guys getting him in the playoffs..?..(neither have ever established themselves as an NHL solid #1)

That suggests to me that you are assuming that the Canucks would have made the playoffs with better goaltending.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

That suggests to me that you are assuming that the Canucks would have made the playoffs with better goaltending.

Not a chance they were a playoff team..I was quoting the poster...

There was an obvious lack of depth,in all positions last season,although I do see a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Forget talk about the playoffs. It doesn’t matter that Benning actually mentions the playoffs in any given season. He’s clearly out of his mind on that front. It’s being competitive that’s the issue. The Canucks’ front office operates like this is a bubble team, when it’s actually a bottom feeder. That’s why this regime is criticized and mocked.

- They don’t sell heavy at the deadline.

- They buy suspect FAs instead of running with prospects in those positions.

- They chase and lionize role players like a playoff team would (Sutter and Gudbranson).

- They rarely have a surplus of picks, and it’s not their focus.

- They spend to the cap normally without actually weaponizing their cap space.

All in the guise of being competitive - as if other bottom feeders who rebuild properly are not equally as competitive while still having much more in assets...?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Forget talk about the playoffs. It doesn’t matter that Benning actually mentions the playoffs in any given season. He’s clearly out of his mind on that front. It’s being competitive that’s the issue. The Canucks’ front office operates like this is a bubble team, when it’s actually a bottom feeder. That’s why this regime is criticized and mocked.

- They don’t sell heavy at the deadline.

- They buy suspect FAs instead of running with prospects in those positions.

- They chase and lionize role players like a playoff team would (Sutter and Gudbranson).

- They rarely have a surplus of picks, and it’s not their focus.

- They spend to the cap normally without actually weaponizing their cap space.

All in the guise of being competitive - as if other bottom feeders who rebuild properly are not equally as competitive while still having much more in assets...?

This is a wonderful condensed list of what infuriates me with the current management!

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Forget talk about the playoffs. It doesn’t matter that Benning actually mentions the playoffs in any given season. He’s clearly out of his mind on that front. It’s being competitive that’s the issue. The Canucks’ front office operates like this is a bubble team, when it’s actually a bottom feeder. That’s why this regime is criticized and mocked.

- They don’t sell heavy at the deadline.

- They buy suspect FAs instead of running with prospects in those positions.

- They chase and lionize role players like a playoff team would (Sutter and Gudbranson).

- They rarely have a surplus of picks, and it’s not their focus.

- They spend to the cap normally without actually weaponizing their cap space.

All in the guise of being competitive - as if other bottom feeders who rebuild properly are not equally as competitive while still having much more in assets...?

In fairness they never seem to have much to sell heavily at the deadline. The rest of your post Hargraves agrees with

 

[Fatass]

I don't care what you or even I may think about the deal. I'm looking at facts. And the fact is a reputable media organization like Canucks Army, that has press pass credentials with the Canucks, reported that they turned down the 9th overall pick for Ryan Miller. That was what they wrote. How we may interpret whether that's a good deal or not for either team is our own opinion, which has zero bearing on what actually happened.

But it's a rumor, so it never really happened. It's just a rumor that it might have happened. That's not a fact. That's a rumor. Actual logic would dictate that this rumor (again, never really happened, and is only conjecture) is too one sided to have any merit.
If this rumor had merit, then JB should be beaten with stuffed toys for not accepting, and Wilson should be beaten with stuffed toys filled with lead weights for offering. And we all eat popcorn and watch.

 

[y2kcanucks]

But it's a rumor, so it never really happened. It's just a rumor that it might have happened. That's not a fact. That's a rumor. Actual logic would dictate that this rumor (again, never really happened, and is only conjecture) is too one sided to have any merit.
If this rumor had merit, then JB should be beaten with stuffed toys for not accepting, and Wilson should be beaten with stuffed toys filled with lead weights for offering. And we all eat popcorn and watch.

You’re confusing rumour with speculation. Suggesting a rumour is something that never really happened is wrong.

 

[Fatass]

You’re confusing rumour with speculation. Suggesting a rumour is something that never really happened is wrong.

ru·mor
ˈro͞omər/
noun

1. 1.
   a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.
   "they were investigating rumors of a massacre"
   

   synonyms:

   gossip, hearsay, talk, tittle-tattle, speculation, word; More

   [TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Fire Benning]

Draft pick distribution per round under Benning:

2014: 7 picks, 1 pick per round

2015: 7 picks, 1 pick per round

2016: 6 picks, 0.85 picks per round

2017: 8 picks, 1.14 picks per round

2018: (possible to change) 6 picks, 0.85 picks per round.

So in Benning’s tenure, they’ve headed into one draft out of 4 (soon to be 5) with a surplus of picks, it took their hand being forced by an expansion draft to acquire an extra pick than the amount that is automatically given.

 

[y2kcanucks]

ru·mor
ˈro͞omər/
noun

1. 1.
   a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.
   "they were investigating rumors of a massacre"
   

   synonyms:

   gossip, hearsay, talk, tittle-tattle, speculation, word; More

   [TBODY] [/TBODY]

Then perhaps rumour isn't the correct word to describe this. Report is probably a better word. It was reported by Canucks Army that the Canucks turned down the 9th overall pick for Ryan Miller.

Not going to continue with this tangent though as we're getting too off topic with semantics. At the end of the day, Canucks Army passed on to their readers that Benning turned down the 9th overall pick for Ryan Miller. None of Benning's supporters want to accept that. That's all there is to it.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Draft pick distribution per round under Benning:

2014: 7 picks, 1 pick per round

2015: 7 picks, 1 pick per round

2016: 6 picks, 0.85 picks per round

2017: 8 picks, 1.14 picks per round

2018: (possible to change) 6 picks, 0.85 picks per round.

So in Benning’s tenure, they’ve headed into one draft out of 4 (soon to be 5) with a surplus of picks, it took their hand being forced by an expansion draft to acquire an extra pick than the amount that is automatically given.

It's worth noting that we had received an extra 5th round pick for the 2015 draft from a trade that Mike Gillis made.