2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

[Doyle Hargraves]

With this sentiment I completely agree. I believe during a rebuilding phase a GM should be collecting picks (especially in the first three rounds) and not trading them away. It was a big mistake during JB’s first three years to trade picks for Vey, Baer, Dorset, Pedan, and gap fillers. I like Guddy and .sutter, but believe the second round picks needed to complete those deals should have killed both trades.

The Dorsett trade was no mistake at all. Otherwise agree with the post. DD has heart and a ballsack. Something the casual fan doesn’t quite get.

 

[y2kcanucks]

With this sentiment I completely agree. I believe during a rebuilding phase a GM should be collecting picks (especially in the first three rounds) and not trading them away. It was a big mistake during JB’s first three years to trade picks for Vey, Baer, Dorset, Pedan, and gap fillers. I like Guddy and .sutter, but believe the second round picks needed to complete those deals should have killed both trades.

Gudbranson is a terrible defenseman, and Sutter is a mediocre 3C at best. Though you haven't really criticized Benning at all for these moves where he gave away picks. Just like this year he traded away a 4th round pick and hasn't bothered to stockpile any picks. In fact, you suggest a rebuilding GM should be collecting picks. Benning has never done that at all during his tenure here. So do you admit he's not rebuilding?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Based on the fact the team is turning over and getting younger. I may not like some of the moves ( recently they’ve been better than in the first 2 1/2 years but I digress) but they are definitely getting younger and rebuilding with younger players. Do I like the shortcuts Elmer tried to take pissing away picks for 23-27 yr old guys? Absolutely not.

Just because they don’t do things your way which causes you to flip your sh!t doesn’t mean it’s not a rebuild. Get outside and get some fresh air buds. Life is too short to be enraged 24-7 about a hockey team.

Here's a fact: The Canucks had the oldest team in the NHL in the 2017-18 season when ranking the average age of every team's top 10 scorers. So at least in terms of players who are driving the bus, the Canucks are still an old team.

The Canucks also have not bothered to stockpile draft picks. They trade away draft picks and prospects for now pieces.

It has nothing to do with "my way." It has everything to do with the fact that I'm looking at the evidence while you're just assuming they're rebuilding because some young players are introduced on the bottom lines and the team is so bad they've gotten some high draft picks in recent years. Or maybe you just don't know how other teams operate and that almost every team in the NHL adds young players to their lineup every year.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Here's a fact: The Canucks had the oldest team in the NHL in the 2017-18 season when ranking the average age of every team's top 10 scorers. So at least in terms of players who are driving the bus, the Canucks are still an old team.

The Canucks also have not bothered to stockpile draft picks. They trade away draft picks and prospects for now pieces.

It has nothing to do with "my way." It has everything to do with the fact that I'm looking at the evidence while you're just assuming they're rebuilding because some young players are introduced on the bottom lines and the team is so bad they've gotten some high draft picks in recent years. Or maybe you just don't know how other teams operate and that almost every team in the NHL adds young players to their lineup every year.

Lol. So not bringing back the 38 year old twins , 31 year old Dorsett and 34 year old Vanek won’t chsnge the age at all. Hmm was Jussi Jokinen in your rankings as well?

The only decent point you made was they need to stockpile picks. I’ve been saying that for years

 

[Fatass]

Gudbranson is a terrible defenseman, and Sutter is a mediocre 3C at best. Though you haven't really criticized Benning at all for these moves where he gave away picks. Just like this year he traded away a 4th round pick and hasn't bothered to stockpile any picks. In fact, you suggest a rebuilding GM should be collecting picks. Benning has never done that at all during his tenure here. So do you admit he's not rebuilding?

I think Linden finally used the rebuild term last year. Before that ?Trevor said it would not be fair to the Sedins, while they were here, to do a tear down rebuild. I like the pool of prospects JB has collected, but believe we should have 7 to 10 more. We are rebuilding, but I believe that only began at the 2017 TDL. Before that, we were foolishly trying to retool around the Twins.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Lol. So not bringing back the 38 year old twins , 31 year old Dorsett and 34 year old Vanek won’t chsnge the age at all. Hmm was Jussi Jokinen in your rankings as well?

The only decent point you made was they need to stockpile picks. I’ve been saying that for years

Didn't realize counting to 10 was so difficult.

Here are the top 10 point producers on the Canucks this past season:

Boeser
Sedin
Sedin
Horvat
Vanek
Edler
Gagner
Baertschi
Sutter
Eriksson

So no, not bringing back Dorsett won't change that at all. And no, Jussi Jokinen was not in my rankings. This isn't rocket science.

Do you seriously think the Canucks aren't going to replace the Sedins and Vanek with other veterans? Not much is going to change.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I think Linden finally used the rebuild term last year. Before that ?Trevor said it would not be fair to the Sedins, while they were here, to do a tear down rebuild. I like the pool of prospects JB has collected, but believe we should have 7 to 10 more. We are rebuilding, but I believe that only began at the 2017 TDL. Before that, we were foolishly trying to retool around the Twins.

So because Linden said we're rebuilding that means we're rebuilding? Despite the fact that Benning has not been acquiring draft picks and continues to stockpile veterans and trade away picks and prospects?

 

[Fatass]

So because Linden said we're rebuilding that means we're rebuilding? Despite the fact that Benning has not been acquiring draft picks and continues to stockpile veterans and trade away picks and prospects?

I guess your philosophy of rebuilding differs from that of TL and JB. I agree with you that we were not rebuilding, by any definition, for JB’s first three years. I believe the trades of Hansen and Burrows for prospects and picks signalled a shift. I do agree with you, that we should be collecting more picks.

 

[Foundational Player]

They are rebuilding

The decisions made over the past few years by management suggest the team clearly isn't rebuilding.

Linden wouldn't even mention the word when asked about a rebuild.

Team has 6 draft picks this year and only 3 are in the top 70.

This team is retooling on the fly with intentions of making the playoffs.

 

[I in the Eye]

If the Canucks are rebuilding, every team gunning for the playoffs is rebuilding... As a quick example, what is Vancouver doing that a Pittsburgh isn't (other than winning?). Nothing. If Vancouver is rebuilding, then the Penguins are rebuilding too. If the Penguins aren't rebuilding, neither is Vancouver.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I guess your philosophy of rebuilding differs from that of TL and JB. I agree with you that we were not rebuilding, by any definition, for JB’s first three years. I believe the trades of Hansen and Burrows for prospects and picks signalled a shift. I do agree with you, that we should be collecting more picks.

They only traded Hansen because of the expansion draft, by Benning's own admission. This year they traded away a draft pick. I don't know who's definition of a rebuild involves trading away draft picks but it certainly is a strange one.

 

[Fatass]

They only traded Hansen because of the expansion draft, by Benning's own admission. This year they traded away a draft pick. I don't know who's definition of a rebuild involves trading away draft picks but it certainly is a strange one.

Again, I can’t deny your points here. I would prefer, especially with how good JB tends to draft, we collected rather than trade away picks.
Maybe JB is arrogant when it comes to his ability to draft? Maybe he thinks he can out draft all the other teams, using less picks?

 

[y2kcanucks]

Again, I can’t deny your points here. I would prefer, especially with how good JB tends to draft, we collected rather than trade away picks.
Maybe JB is arrogant when it comes to his ability to draft? Maybe he thinks he can out draft all the other teams, using less picks?

Well based on his history here I would argue the contrary. Our 2016 draft looks like a complete disaster. 2015 looks good because of Boeser, but outside of that a couple question marks. 2014 looks like a mess. 2017 looks great, but that happened only after the Canucks shook up their draft team and gave more power to Judd Brackett (who would still be here if Benning were to be fired).

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

If the Canucks are rebuilding, every team gunning for the playoffs is rebuilding... As a quick example, what is Vancouver doing that a Pittsburgh isn't (other than winning?). Nothing. If Vancouver is rebuilding, then the Penguins are rebuilding too. If the Penguins aren't rebuilding, neither is Vancouver.

Pittsburgh traded their 1st round pick for 30 year old Derrick Brassard around the deadline this year...I dunno..am I missing something here?

 

[I in the Eye]

Pittsburgh traded their 1st round pick for 30 year old Derrick Brassard around the deadline this year...I dunno..am I missing something here?

Pouliot for 4th + Pedan... Canucks offer for Subban (1st included)... Canucks offer for Lucic (1st included). Multiple 2nd's traded...

Those draft picks are just as safe with the Canucks as they are with Pittsburgh. The Canucks are not rebuilding... They are like any other team in the league that is also not rebuilding.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Pouliot for 4th + Pedan... Canucks offer for Subban (1st included)... Canucks offer for Lucic (1st included).

Those draft picks are just as safe with the Canucks as they are with Pittsburgh.

Since the Eriksson trade ..Benning has traded one 4th round pick...God f***in forbid..!!..and it was a decent trade as well..

Trade rumours are just rumours,unless they happened they didn't happen...Whats next ?..Benning turned down SJ's 9th OA because he's anti rebuild?

 

[I in the Eye]

Since the Eriksson trade ..Benning has traded one 4th round pick...God ****in forbid..!!..and it was a decent trade as well..

Trade rumours are just rumours,unless they happened they didn't happen...Whats next ?..Benning turned down SJ's 9th OA because he's anti rebuild?

How many has he acquired since the Eriksson signing? And getting rid of the 4th was a shit trade.

Can only judge Benning based on what actually happened... I can agree with that. My opinion is that 1sts aren't untradeable to Benning. They are as sacred to Vancouver, as they are to Pittsburgh. Expendable for a veteran player and roster re-tool.

Benning is not rebuilding. If you think he is, what do you define as a rebuild?

 

[Kryten]

Since the Eriksson trade ..Benning has traded one 4th round pick...God ****in forbid..!!..and it was a decent trade as well..

Trade rumours are just rumours,unless they happened they didn't happen...Whats next ?..Benning turned down SJ's 9th OA because he's anti rebuild?

Since the what trade

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Well based on his history here I would argue the contrary. Our 2016 draft looks like a complete disaster. 2015 looks good because of Boeser, but outside of that a couple question marks. 2014 looks like a mess. 2017 looks great, but that happened only after the Canucks shook up their draft team and gave more power to Judd Brackett (who would still be here if Benning were to be fired).

Lol come up for air once in a while. There’s a big beautiful world out there. Instead of filling yourself with rage about the local hockey team take some of it in. If I was this pissed off following a team over which I have zero control I might take a step back.... just sayin brother. You don’t want a vein to explode at 4 am thinking about the return for Thomas Vanek or that Granlund is overpaid by 100 K.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Since the Eriksson trade ..Benning has traded one 4th round pick...God ****in forbid..!!..and it was a decent trade as well..

Trade rumours are just rumours,unless they happened they didn't happen...Whats next ?..Benning turned down SJ's 9th OA because he's anti rebuild?

The 9th overall for Miller is an absolute beauty.

I’m sure it was actually 9th + Couture and Hertl for Miller and a 5th and the rights to Behn Wilson

 

[I in the Eye]

The 9th overall for Miller is an absolute beauty.

I’m sure it was actually 9th + Couture and Hertl for Miller and a 5th and the rights to Behn Wilson

I have to much belief that Wilson can rag doll Benning to believe this rumour. I've never used it in any argument. However, the Subban rumour, had more substance, and I think it was Friedman who said if Dupois was available to draft, Vancouver's first was going to Montreal.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

How many has he acquired since the Eriksson trade? And getting rid of the 4th was a **** trade.

Can only judge Benning based on what actually happened... I can agree with that. My opinion is that 1sts aren't untradeable to Benning. They are as sacred to Vancouver, as they are to Pittsburgh. Expendable for a veteran player and roster re-tool.

Benning is not rebuilding. If you think he is, what do you define as a rebuild?

Would you trade Ben Hutton for a 3rd or 4th round pick.?..He basically has the same value as Pouliot,and Pouliot was the better player last season.

Until Benning trades his 1st round pick for a 30 year old (or close to it)..then we'll talk..

Canucks are rebuilding,not in the complete and utter tear down sense that Toronto did...Look at the age of the lineup for next season,look at the prospect pool...If you honestly believe that Benning was assembling a playoff team last season,I don't know what to tell you....They didn't even have a proven #1 goalie,what does that tell you?

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

I have to much belief that Wilson can rag doll Benning to believe this rumour. I've never used it in any argument. However, the Subban rumour, had more substance, and I think it was Friedman who said if Dupois was available to draft, Vancouver's first was going to Montreal.

I don’t disagree with this. I also believe Elmer was going hard after Pernell Karl. Great player but makes zero sense for this team . Don’t get me wrong I hate A LOT of this management groups moves, especially from June 2014-Jan 2017. I wish they could undo some of that mess. But this Miller rumour is a bloody joke and would NEVER have happened. Pauser wants to die on this hill, he deserves all the rocks thrown his way. It’s asinine.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Would you trade Ben Hutton for a 3rd or 4th round pick.?..He basically has the same value as Pouliot,and Pouliot was the better player last season.

Until Benning trades his 1st round pick for a 30 year old (or close to it)..then we'll talk..

Canucks are rebuilding,not in the complete and utter tear down sense that Toronto did...Look at the age of the lineup for next season,look at the prospect pool...If you honestly believe that Benning was assembling a playoff team last season,I don't know what to tell you....They didn't even have a proven #1 goalie,what does that tell you?

Oldest team in the league this past year based on the average age of every team's top 10 scorers. They traded away a draft pick and prospect this year too. Yet they're rebuilding?

Wrong.

Look at a team like the Rangers. THEY are rebuilding. The Canucks most certainly are not in a rebuild. They're just existing.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I don’t disagree with this. I also believe Elmer was going hard after Pernell Karl. Great player but makes zero sense for this team . Don’t get me wrong I hate A LOT of this management groups moves, especially from June 2014-Jan 2017. I wish they could undo some of that mess. But this Miller rumour is a bloody joke and would NEVER have happened. Pauser wants to die on this hill, he deserves all the rocks thrown his way. It’s asinine.

Die on what hill? You're acting like you know better than someone who has a direct source within the organization (JD Burke). So...either reveal your source or come up with something that directly refutes this. You can't.