Speculation: 2017-18 Sharks roster discussion II

[The Great John Scott]

Nice to see DW keep away from any potential future talent on the cheap. I'm sure touting his Thornton/Burns acquisitions for the next 5-10 years will see this team to the soaring heights of a championship. /s

 

[DG93]

Damn...in before Duclair plays with Kane and lights it up

 

[stator]

With Thornton ($8 mil), Ward ($3.25 mil), and Hansen ($2 mil) coming off the books they have more than enough to pay Tavares $10 mil per year (which is what it will likely take) and still have Wards full $3.25 mil left over which would cover guys like O'Regan, Sorenson, Goodrow, and Labanc as full time replacements. All that without moving Boedker. So I don't think moving Boedker is a requirement for going for Tavares. And if they manage to move Martin that another nearly $5 mil freed up for another 1-year deal for JT. Not to mention the $10 mil + in free cap space they already have.

Sharks have enough cap space to cover Tavares now, but it's not needed since his new contract would not kick in until next season should he come over.

The problem for DW is likely the amount of youth and draft picks that the Islanders are demanding in any trade.

The problem for the Islanders is that Tavares is not signing their contract. Every other GM knows this, and wants to pay the Islanders what amounts to a bag of pucks.

It's a waiting game to soften the Islander's GM.

But I do agree that Tavares is what the Sharks need. They would have been better to trade Thornton and Goldy for Tavares.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sharks have enough cap space to cover Tavares now, but it's not needed since his new contract would not kick in until next season should he come over.

The problem for DW is likely the amount of youth and draft picks that the Islanders are demanding in any trade.

The problem for the Islanders is that Tavares is not signing their contract. Every other GM knows this, and wants to pay the Islanders what amounts to a bag of pucks.

It's a waiting game to soften the Islander's GM.

But I do agree that Tavares is what the Sharks need. They would have been better to trade Thornton and Goldy for Tavares.

It's highly unlikely that the Islanders trade Tavares. They're going to do everything they can to keep him even if that means losing him for nothing.

 

[Lebanezer]

Doug is not a gunslinger. He does not target players with any risk in trades or free agency. They are usually what he expects them to be or worse. The odds of him trying to trade for a guy with high potential that hasn’t been reached yet is almost 0. The lone exception I can think of is James Sheppard, and I’m not sure that even counts. He’s hyper conservative, and that’s why Duclair was never gonna be a Shark.

 

[Mattb124]

Tavares will look to the future of a franchise, and I don't think the Sharks have what it will take in terms of prospects and futures.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Tavares will look to the future of a franchise, and I don't think the Sharks have what it will take in terms of prospects and futures.

Yes we do. If we sign Tavares we will have TWO #1C's in Couture and Tavares, TWO #1D's in Burns and Vlasic, a #1G, and have enough talent around the edges to compete. If Tavares wants to be the guy, there may not be a better team to slot in him in terms of cap space, veteran guys, and some young kids. We still have Hertl/Meier/Donskoi/Labanc/Pavelski/Tierney.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I said this in the NHL news/notes thread, but this feels like what everyone else must've felt like with the Thornton trade. Like Arizona just went to the first team they talked to and took what was on the table instead of shopping around at all.

According to reports, the Yotes GM said this was the best offer anyone has made for Duclair in the past year or something.

 

[The Nemesis]

According to reports, the Yotes GM said this was the best offer anyone has made for Duclair in the past year or something.

Like... since last week Monday? Because that almost makes sense. More sense than pretending this is the best offer of hte last 365 days or more. Or better than hanging up with Chicago, phoning, I dunno.... Every other team around the Blackhawks in the standings and saying "the Hawks are offering me a passable middle 6 guy and a C-tier prospect that was already ours like 6 months ago. Surely you can do better"

The ask, according to Pierre LeBrun, for Evander Kane is a 1st, a good prospect, and a roster player. Surely there has to be some team out there that scoffs at that price but says they'll give the Yotes 2 of those 3 pieces for Duclair if he signs a reasonable extension. Or a 2nd and a B-tier prospect.

I eagerly await the flood of "herp derp derp, look at the kid GM in Arizona not know how to wheel and deal" type of responses from old guard media outlets and commentators.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Like... since last week Monday? Because that almost makes sense. More sense than pretending this is the best offer of hte last 365 days or more. Or better than hanging up with Chicago, phoning, I dunno.... Every other team around the Blackhawks in the standings and saying "the Hawks are offering me a passable middle 6 guy and a C-tier prospect that was already ours like 6 months ago. Surely you can do better"

The ask, according to Pierre LeBrun, for Evander Kane is a 1st, a good prospect, and a roster player. Surely there has to be some team out there that scoffs at that price but says they'll give the Yotes 2 of those 3 pieces for Duclair if he signs a reasonable extension. Or a 2nd and a B-tier prospect.

I eagerly await the flood of "herp derp derp, look at the kid GM in Arizona not know how to wheel and deal" type of responses from old guard media outlets and commentators.

Hey, I’m just repeating what I read on twitter. Maybe it’s bogus or something, but don’t shoot the messenger.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes we do. If we sign Tavares we will have TWO #1C's in Couture and Tavares, TWO #1D's in Burns and Vlasic, a #1G, and have enough talent around the edges to compete. If Tavares wants to be the guy, there may not be a better team to slot in him in terms of cap space, veteran guys, and some young kids. We still have Hertl/Meier/Donskoi/Labanc/Pavelski/Tierney.

I'll believe it when I see it but if we're talking about looking into the future with regards to Tavares' willingness to sign here then we have to take into account that Couture, Donskoi, and Pavelski are all set to be free agents after next season. I'm not too keen on re-signing Pavelski and I'm very concerned that Couture will decline in a similar fashion to Pavelski but I'm still willing to take that chance with him right now. I'm pretty sure Donskoi re-signs regardless but losing a declining Pavelski is still going to be a hit to the winger depth that is already shallow as it is. And if we lose Couture too, it will make it that much more worse because Hertl then has to slide into the 2nd pivot. Tavares will have a lot of options and there really isn't anything about San Jose that's going to stand out at this point. A lot of teams have what we have. For the Sharks to compete in signing Tavares, they may have to approach the player max to get it done and if the cap is set to 82 million, that's 16.4 million for 7 years.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

My biggest question of next year is do we get Jumbo back, assuming we DO NOT sign Tavares? If not, I am easily expecting a top-10 pick in 2019.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My biggest question of next year is do we get Jumbo back, assuming we DO NOT sign Tavares? If not, I am easily expecting a top-10 pick in 2019.

In that situation, you'd have pretty good odds that the Sharks would trade Couture and Pavelski at the deadline...maybe even Donskoi if he shows no interest in re-signing.

 

[Herschel]

The Isles would be morons if they did not match an offer of $10 mil for Tavares, and Tavares would be stupid to sign with SJ of all the teams that offered that much for him.

Please explain?

 

[WTFetus]

I don't really see Couture declining like Pavelski. His hands and speed are a lot better, and its not like he hasn't exactly benefited from an elite linemate.

 

[Herschel]

I'll believe it when I see it but if we're talking about looking into the future with regards to Tavares' willingness to sign here then we have to take into account that Couture, Donskoi, and Pavelski are all set to be free agents after next season. I'm not too keen on re-signing Pavelski and I'm very concerned that Couture will decline in a similar fashion to Pavelski but I'm still willing to take that chance with him right now. I'm pretty sure Donskoi re-signs regardless but losing a declining Pavelski is still going to be a hit to the winger depth that is already shallow as it is. And if we lose Couture too, it will make it that much more worse because Hertl then has to slide into the 2nd pivot. Tavares will have a lot of options and there really isn't anything about San Jose that's going to stand out at this point. A lot of teams have what we have. For the Sharks to compete in signing Tavares, they may have to approach the player max to get it done and if the cap is set to 82 million, that's 16.4 million for 7 years.

I am curious what you think would stand out for Tavares?
Outside of NYI which teams do you feel are best positioned to stand out?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

In that situation, you'd have pretty good odds that the Sharks would trade Couture and Pavelski at the deadline...maybe even Donskoi if he shows no interest in re-signing.

In what situation? Not re-signing Jumbo and not landing Tavares?

Honestly, at this time if that were to happen we could go so many different ways. I am just not sure if DW will ever commit to trading pieces he considers core for a rebuild. Moving Couture or Pavs is something I will only believe when I see it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I am curious what you think would stand out for Tavares?
Outside of NYI which teams do you feel are best positioned to stand out?

It depends on the context of what he's looking for in a team. There really isn't a lot out there showing that for him. The cap jumping to potentially 82 million could open the door for a lot of teams to come calling on Tavares. If he wants to max out his take home, he could end up in a place like Vegas or Dallas or Florida who can all afford him cap-wise. In the case of Vegas and Dallas, obviously a better chance to win. New Jersey and the Rangers can afford his asking price while affording him the opportunity to not uproot everything he's built in his life with the Islanders while more or less having a more stable organization. Toronto could offer him the opportunity to play for his favorite team growing up. Granted, it would take some maneuvering for them to make this and Matthews/Marner/Nylander all work but if the cap jumps high enough, it can work. The Sharks could definitely sign Tavares in terms of capability. Of that, I have no doubt. I just don't see what stands out with them for someone like Tavares on the east coast to want to come here. I don't think the team can separate themselves in terms of contract offer and I don't think they can separate themselves in terms of talent on the team. There's a lot of teams with a similar set of talent more or less. If I were to bet on where he'd go, I'd still bet on him staying in Long Island. If he chooses to leave, it really is anyone's guess but my guess would be the Rangers.

In what situation? Not re-signing Jumbo and not landing Tavares?

Honestly, at this time if that were to happen we could go so many different ways. I am just not sure if DW will ever commit to trading pieces he considers core for a rebuild. Moving Couture or Pavs is something I will only believe when I see it.

In not re-signing Jumbo and not landing Tavares where the team is probably losing the next season. I agree that it's a believe til you see it thing but if the team does that poorly next year without a stalwart like Thornton or Tavares leading the way, I don't see the team performing at a level needed to make the playoffs. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if one of them asked out before the season started if Jumbo is gone and there isn't someone similar or better to replace him.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

In not re-signing Jumbo and not landing Tavares where the team is probably losing the next season. I agree that it's a believe til you see it thing but if the team does that poorly next year without a stalwart like Thornton or Tavares leading the way, I don't see the team performing at a level needed to make the playoffs. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if one of them asked out before the season started if Jumbo is gone and there isn't someone similar or better to replace him.

I agree. And I would not be surprised if they asked out either. Pavs and Burns appear to be really close to Jumbo and I could totally see Pavs to ask out if we do not get Jumbo (or a true replacement) back.

 

[Lebanezer]

If the cap goes up to 82 million, I would expect Tampa to go hard after Tavares. They have a great team and a great tax situation. They can offer him a lower cap hit, but comparable take home dollars than most other teams, and it won't handicap their team.

 

[hohosaregood]

Couture is the most likely guy to want out if this teams goes into non compete mode imo. A competitive guy like him in his late prime is not gonna stick around for a rebuild.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If the cap goes up to 82 million, I would expect Tampa to go hard after Tavares. They have a great team and a great tax situation. They can offer him a lower cap hit, but comparable take home dollars than most other teams, and it won't handicap their team.

Tampa would be in a tough position to do that because they will need to pay Kucherov after next season and their blue line will need some figuring out as they have one UFA this year and three next year. Maybe if they could find a home for Ryan Callahan the year that Kucherov's set to get a new deal but Tavares to Tampa right now even with potentially 18 mil in space is a tough fit.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Everyone is either thinking it's super likely we get Tavares or not even possible he considers it. I think DW will make a serious offer if he reaches UFA and we have a dark horse shot at getting him. Not saying it's likely, but definitely a possibility.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Everyone is either thinking it's super likely we get Tavares or not even possible he considers it. I think DW will make a serious offer if he reaches UFA and we have a dark horse shot at getting him. Not saying it's likely, but definitely a possibility.

Well, the track record suggests that those thinking it's not even possible are probably correct lol. We know DW is a notorious tire-kicker but he's also said in the past that free agent day is often where the biggest mistakes are made so he's very conservative on the matter which probably reflects in his contract offers. Likely competitive but likely consistently on the lower end compared to others.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Well, the track record suggests that those thinking it's not even possible are probably correct lol. We know DW is a notorious tire-kicker but he's also said in the past that free agent day is often where the biggest mistakes are made so he's very conservative on the matter which probably reflects in his contract offers. Likely competitive but likely consistently on the lower end compared to others.

And he's usually justified in doing so. Most of the time the high priced FAs are overpaid and underperform. I'm sure he knows we need a 1C bad and Tavares is an elite 1C, and those just about never go to FA at all, much less in their prime years. To aquire someone like Tavares for just salary cap would be a huge win and I doubt DW is dumb enough to see it any other way.

This isn't paying lucic stupid money, Erikson stupid money, or anything like that. This is a legit franchise player potentially available that you break out a blank check for and we have the cap to do so. We'd instantly be a serious contender with Tavares instead of a hopeful.