Line Combos: 2017-18 Roster Thread II - Massive changes not coming

[dracom]

How many teams actually have 4 lines that are good enough offensively to say they have 4 scoring lines?

Steel should either play a little more in the AHL instead of playing on the 4th line getting typical 4th line mins that 4th liners have around the NHL.

Honestly, I'm not sure any team has a roster like that. But, there are teams that have 3 strong scoring lines with a 4th line that can contribute occasionally. Leafs, Tampa, Preds, Pens, Jets are the ones I can think of off the top of my head that all have 3 strong lines that can score.

Agreed about Steel spending time in the AHL.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Exactly why a new coach that's willing to roll four lines would be so lovely. The 4th line being the 5-minute grinder line is an increasingly archaic concept.

Then we need a GM who will get better players that can play 10+ mins a game on a regular basis without being a liability. No Boll,Kelly,Chimera types.

Honestly, I'm not sure any team has a roster like that. But, there are teams that have 3 strong scoring lines with a 4th line that can contribute occasionally. Leafs, Tampa, Preds, Pens, Jets are the ones I can think of off the top of my head that all have 3 strong lines that can score.

Agreed about Steel spending time in the AHL.

I wish we had the ability to draft,develop and make trades for forwards like those teams have to have such kind of scoring lines.

 

[dracom]

I wish we had the ability to draft,develop and make trades for forwards like those teams have to have such kind of scoring lines.

All it really takes is drafting in the top 5 and a GM who is willing to take a risk and move some prospects.

 

[bsu]

No need to bring Brown back, we can do better. I'd rather let one of the AHL guys fight for that spot or find a better grinder/pk guy.

Yeah true one of kossila or kerdiles will be on the lineup for sure.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Then we need a GM who will get better players that can play 10+ mins a game on a regular basis without being a liability. No Boll,Kelly,Chimera types.



I wish we had the ability to draft,develop and make trades for forwards like those teams have to have such kind of scoring lines.

Tampa deserves a ton of credit for sure, they have Stamkos and then a bunch of gems they've uncovered and developed. But those other teams? Meh, not really that impressive when you consider where they obtained their key forward talent.

Edit - didn't realize you had included trading for players, but still I think Tampa stands alone from those others.

 

[eternalbedhead]

Then we need a GM who will get better players that can play 10+ mins a game on a regular basis without being a liability. No Boll,Kelly,Chimera types.

We've had 4th lines that can play before. Carlyle just doesn't play them.

But all of this is based on the hypothetical that we could put some youth like Steel on the 4th line in an offensively-oriented role getting 12-13 minutes a night -- which is something Carlyle will never do.

 

[pbgoalie]

Cool think is, if we miss the playoffs we will draft a couple of studs, and or management will talk about how we restocked our prospect pool so we can sit on them, not play them, or move them to make a major cup run,
All while signing veteran slow big character guys

 

[Masch78]

And you think these young studs will immediately make the roster? Come on, it's more likely that we see 2018 drafted players not sooner than in 2020. And there will be a different team then.

Management clearly wants San Diego to succeed as well. Obviously this will have a financial impact as well.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

It feels like Randy views the fourth line as inconsequential but it's at the expense of having to play his older players more..

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

And you think these young studs will immediately make the roster? Come on, it's more likely that we see 2018 drafted players not sooner than in 2020. And there will be a different team then.

Management clearly wants San Diego to succeed as well. Obviously this will have a financial impact as well.

I think even if a young guy or 2 make Anaheim... the Gulls will still be getting a nice boost into their line up.

If I'm not mistaken players coming out of juniors/college/etc Jones, Steel, Mahura, Soy, Kopacka and maybe Gates/terry that's a pretty solid injection even if you take Steel off the list.

 

[mightyquack]

To be fair, I'd be willing to bet over the last 10 years (since BM took over) Anaheim has been one of the more 'progressive' teams when it comes to injecting youth into the line up, at last count I think it was 27 or 28 of our draft picks (none of the 2016/2017 picks have played) have played for Anaheim in the last 10 years - that seems a pretty solid return and that's not including undrafted FA's/prospects Anaheim acquired themselves. Not to mention the Anaheim's core is more on the younger side outside of a handful of players: Gibson (24), Fowler (26), Lindholm (24), Manson (26), Montour (23), Getzlaf (32), Perry (32), Kesler (33), Rakell (24), Henrique (28), Kase (22), Silf (27).

BM has never struck me as his time as the GM in Anaheim as a guy who overly favours veterans compared to young players to the point it's detrimental to young players, if anything I'd say at times he's almost been 'too high' on younger players at times to fill holes on the team when the team has been looking to compete for the Cup. that's not to say he hasn't made some head scratching decisions when it's come to some vets in the past. I think it's more of a coaching issue then a management issue - of course the only reason the coaching issue exists is because BM hired RC again, which to me makes the RC re-hire all the more strange as BM and RC don't strike me as a GM/HC combo that are anything close to being on the same page in terms of their philosophies on how to build and set up a team.

Also when is the last time Anaheim traded one of their top prospects? Karlsson maybe? I'm not buying the whole Anaheim sit, don't play or trade top prospects argument. Hell, even this season only 4 of Anaheim's top 10 prospects according to HFDucks are even pros right now (Montour/Kase/Larsson/Petersson) and only Larsson hasn't seen NHL time this season and that's even with a dinosaur coach in charge.

Doesn't excuse that BM has decided to go with Vermette/Chimera/Kelly and Beauch/Bieksa rotating as regulars in the team as there are definitely some upgrades in San Diego right now (mainly Welinski and Kossila), but I think it's a bit silly to say Anaheim doesn't give prospects a chance - I'd fully expect at least 2 of the prospects to be on the opening day roster next season (hopefully with a new coach....)

It feels like Randy views the fourth line as inconsequential but it's at the expense of having to play his older players more..

Exactly this, and when he does use it, it has to be a veteran line because they are 'responsible'. When in reality most teams in the NHL use it to bring in a young player or 2 while having it as a contributing line to ease the burden on the upper lines. I hate how young players are seemingly viewed as irresponsible by RC based on their age, while he has certain veterans in there throwing the puck around like it's candy.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

We've had 4th lines that can play before. Carlyle just doesn't play them.

But all of this is based on the hypothetical that we could put some youth like Steel on the 4th line in an offensively-oriented role getting 12-13 minutes a night -- which is something Carlyle will never do.

A 13 minute player is not a 4th liner. Is there any team in the league that gives its 4th line that much ice time?

 

[Ducks DVM]

A 13 minute player is not a 4th liner. Is there any team in the league that gives its 4th line that much ice time?

Not quite, but there are a selecr number where the 4th line gets 12+, and 11+ isn't rare

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Not quite, but there are a selecr number where the 4th line gets 12+, and 11+ isn't rare

Fair enough. Point remains, generally a 13 minute player is seeing more than just ES duty as an energy liner. He's getting special teams time and subbing in on higher lines here and there.

Certainly thats been Carlyle's schtick with the young players he's brought along for the most part, Getz, Perry, Kunitz, Bobby, Moen, Lupul, Penner, Bonino, Ebbett (who was useless), Bels, Drew Miller. In RC 2.0, you can see it with Kase and Ritchie, can see the beginnings of it with Roy, Blandisi and Kerdiles, etc. They get around 10-12 minutes in cups of coffee or longer evaluative-type callups before getting a big bump in their second or third seasons. Maybe Steel will spend some time in Anaheim next year but if he's getting 13 minutes or more, it's probably because he's pushed a middle-6 guy out of the lineup.

Of course if RC is gone next year, who knows.

 

[KelVarnsen]

We can only hope RC is gone next year.

 

[405Exit]

I'd much rather see us have a top line in San Diego of Jones - Steel - Terry and bring them all along together. No need to rush any of these guys when we have a chance to give them half a season or a whole season playing big minutes together in the AHL level.

Then Murray needs to focus on either a trade or speculate signing JVR. JVR can possibly be signed for around 6x6 and our LW issue will be relieved. Can’t go into next season with Ritchie’s numbers and old geezer Chimera. Just can’t happen. The teams pushing for a cup this year have atleast three deadly scoring lines.

 

[405Exit]

No need to bring Brown back, we can do better. I'd rather let one of the AHL guys fight for that spot or find a better grinder/pk guy.

If Anaheim fans doesn’t want to bring in steel or Jones for LW or center duties. We gotta look at the option of JVR. I know there’s a couple Ritchie supporters, but we can’t have his production going into next season. No way with teams getting better like Boston and Tampa over the deadline. Teams are making huge splashes for not just this year, but numerous years for being Stanley cup favorites.

 

[Pennaduck]

Then Murray needs to focus on either a trade or speculate signing JVR. JVR can possibly be signed for around 6x6 and our LW issue will be relieved. Can’t go into next season with Ritchie’s numbers and old geezer Chimera. Just can’t happen. The teams pushing for a cup this year have atleast three deadly scoring lines.

I'd love to have JVR here for the rest of his prime years, but I don't see how we can afford a 6x6 or even half of that unless Silf or Henrique are traded and something else develops such as an Eaves retirement or a determination from doctors that he will be guaranteed to be on LTIR for the rest of that contract.

Honestly if Kesler is gonna be his old self next season and Eaves is healthy enough to return to his old self, we probably don't need to add another top six forward. Finding some way to bring in JVR would be clutch though. Would help our goal scoring and powerplay a ton.

 

[405Exit]

I'd love to have JVR here for the rest of his prime years, but I don't see how we can afford a 6x6 or even half of that unless Silf or Henrique are traded and something else develops such as an Eaves retirement or a determination from doctors that he will be guaranteed to be on LTIR for the rest of that contract.

Honestly if Kesler is gonna be his old self next season and Eaves is healthy enough to return to his old self, we probably don't need to add another top six forward. Finding some way to bring in JVR would be clutch though. Would help our goal scoring and powerplay a ton.

Agree Penna. But the ducks knew going into the Eaves signing that he’s injury prone. His entire career he’s done this. Murray needs to focus on JVR for wing support this offseason. If you read the trade boards Toronto can’t afford to resign him and the fans say he’s completely available. I wouldn’t mind 60+ points a season and solving this wing issue once and forall.

Get rid of Silf as well. We can barely keep afloat in the Pacific division against the Kings, sharks, and Golden Knights. How many seasons do we have to be the wild card? Upgrade that LW please

 

[AngelDuck]

JVR is getting $7M this offseason. Look at the contract Bobby Ryan got, and that is exactly what JVR will get. Look how that one turned out, Ottawa is trying to use Erik f***ing Karlsson to get rid of that disaster

Pass

 

[405Exit]

JVR is getting $7M this offseason. Look at the contract Bobby Ryan got, and that is exactly what JVR will get. Look how that one turned out, Ottawa is trying to use Erik ****ing Karlsson to get rid of that disaster

Pass

You obviously haven’t seen his entire career years in Toronto. He’s averaged 20+ goals per season with 3 or 4 years of Toronto rebuilding. He’s posted 31 this year with matthews out. Like are you serious right now? JVR is a slam dunk signing and you get the prime years of a 28 year old.

Detroit will sign em anyway so all my points are moot.

 

[The Duck Knight]

JVR is getting $7M this offseason. Look at the contract Bobby Ryan got, and that is exactly what JVR will get. Look how that one turned out, Ottawa is trying to use Erik ****ing Karlsson to get rid of that disaster

Pass

The only reason the Bobby contract is a "disaster" is because he's been injured so much, and Ottawa obviously didn't sign him knowing he would be chronically injured. A healthy Bobby is easily moveable with like 15% retention. Now I want absolutely no part of JVR nor do we have the money for him, but as long as he stays healthy enough to put up close to 30 goals and 60 points his contract will never be a disaster.

 

[dracom]

Then Murray needs to focus on either a trade or speculate signing JVR. JVR can possibly be signed for around 6x6 and our LW issue will be relieved. Can’t go into next season with Ritchie’s numbers and old geezer Chimera. Just can’t happen. The teams pushing for a cup this year have atleast three deadly scoring lines.

Let another team overpay for the guy who does one thing, and sucks at everything else.

 

[AngelDuck]

You obviously haven’t seen his entire career years in Toronto. He’s averaged 20+ goals per season with 3 or 4 years of Toronto rebuilding. He’s posted 31 this year with matthews out. Like are you serious right now? JVR is a slam dunk signing and you get the prime years of a 28 year old.

Detroit will sign em anyway so all my points are moot.

The only thing he's a slam dunk for is to be a greatly overpaid one dimensional player in his 30's.

The Ducks already have Perry and Kesler, and can't afford another one.

I'll be very happy if he signs in Detroit for something stupid

 

[AngelDuck]

The only reason the Bobby contract is a "disaster" is because he's been injured so much, and Ottawa obviously didn't sign him knowing he would be chronically injured. A healthy Bobby is easily moveable with like 15% retention. Now I want absolutely no part of JVR nor do we have the money for him, but as long as he stays healthy enough to put up close to 30 goals and 60 points his contract will never be a disaster.

Well I totally disagree. In my opinion, Bobby's play was heading well in the wrong direction even before injuries. The injuries just accelerated things. But I knew the minute that contract was signed that it would burn the Sens.