2017-18 EFL Carabao Cup

[Theon]

Sick of the defending but won't buy any half decent defender...

I'd say Rafa will be back in Anfield soon.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah on March 3rd when he plays Klopp's reds, or from the stands at some game after Ashley fires him.

That so many of you are practically frothing at the mouth over the idea of him failing says it all. If he sorts out the defense the way he engineered Dortmund's defense to concede 22 goals in a season everyone and their mother knows what will happen.

The way he walked in front of a train for FSG this summer means the only way he'll leave is if he wants to. He has job security for ages and Liverpool have a better collection of players now than they did since Benitez was there. He also had the freedom to go sign a player for 18/19 and players want to go play for him. If anyone thinks Liverpool haven't progressed massively under Klopp they have to be brain dead. Hasn't even been a month since everyone was exploding in their pants over the Arsenal match or the Hoffenheim games.

He has like a six year contract anyway. Would be at least a 40m whack to get rid of him.

 

[Live in the Now]

Checked the calendar. Next four fixtures in the league are

@ Leicester (who just beat LFC)
@ Newcastle (Rafa)
vs Man U (duh)
@ Spurs

And then Klopp gets his best friend Wagner.

If they think the media is bad now and the fans are boiling over dropping points to Leicester again with a trip to face Benitez can get very ugly. Especially with all of the European games. The timing of these fixtures is no less than awful. Klopp needs to figure things out and fast.

You think if he really had to figure things out fast that Flanagan would play games? Or Ward, or Ings, or Woodburn? Or Solanke? I don't think so. This is somebody with absolute maximum job security. Those are also the games I'd want to be playing if my club were in a rut.

There's not a lot to figure out. #6 needs to stop vacating his defensive zone. Players need to finish the chances they have trained to get on the training ground. They've had about a bazillion chances the last few games. It's not exactly easy when your best player goes full moron and kicks someone in their head, but I'm not really worried about this. They drew a CL game against a good opponent, lost 5-0 when a player got a red card, and drew a league game. This game yesterday was irrelevant to Klopp and we know this because of who played.

If the #6 can't figure out this job, they need to be dropped. Plain and simple and there's plenty of players who can replace him. Considering Klopp has already benched Lovren quite a lot I don't think he's going to just let players keep playing badly.

Considering that Liverpool were an absolute ****ing shambles before Klopp was hired I can't really believe this conversation is happening. I guess more people need to be reminded that Liverpool drew a strong FC Sion side that season. Or the part when Rodgers played Moreno in attacking midfield so that he could cross the ball to Benteke and Ings? Or Emre Can at right back? Because I definitely remember this. I also remember players like Ibe and Rossiter starting in European games. We definitely have it so hard now.

 

[Chimaera]

Preach.

 

[YNWA14]

Yeah I don't really understand the panic, or the people who are getting super excited at Liverpool's failures. Anyone that's actually watched the games should know that the drawing/losing under this level of play won't be sustainable.

Liverpool is going to be just fine. They'll still make top 4 and challenge for some silverware this season. Even if they don't Klopp isn't in any trouble until at least next season.

 

[Cassano]

I think LFC not buying a defender was more on the board than Klopp. I also can't fathom why he is being blamed for the recent stretch of games. He set the team up well, their players just couldn't finish.

 

[Jeffrey]

It was the first time that Klopp admitted that his defense have been subpar. That alone is good progress. I think that Klopp is realising that set plays are bread and butter of success in the premier league. Now the problem is that he is missing the players to correct that.

 

[Savant]

It was the first time that Klopp admitted that his defense have been subpar. That alone is good progress. I think that Klopp is realising that set plays are bread and butter of success in the premier league. Now the problem is that he is missing the players to correct that.

I think it's a big disappointment that he took over two years to figure that out.

 

[YNWA14]

I think LFC not buying a defender was more on the board than Klopp. I also can't fathom why he is being blamed for the recent stretch of games. He set the team up well, their players just couldn't finish.

Nah, this was Klopp. It's well known that he's very specific about the players he wants to play for him and that's why we've seen such limited forays into the transfer market. He genuinely believes in the players he has.

That said, maybe our bad luck in scoring is going to be a blessing in disguise and force them to rework the defensive organization/personnel to take us up another level. A real defensive 6 would certainly be a step in the right direction. Krychowiak would have been someone I thought could have been a good choice...Illarramendi, Camacho or Jorginho would be ideal really.

 

[Savant]

I think LFC not buying a defender was more on the board than Klopp.

What are you basing this on? FSG certainly provided the funds this summer. Klopp only wanted Van Dijk. This is the first summer the board got it right, according to the most widely accepted Liverpool sources.

 

[Jeffrey]

I think it's a big disappointment that he took over two years to figure that out.

better later than never....

 

[Savant]

Nah, this was Klopp. It's well known that he's very specific about the players he wants to play for him and that's why we've seen such limited forays into the transfer market. He genuinely believes in the players he has.

That said, maybe our bad luck in scoring is going to be a blessing in disguise and force them to rework the defensive organization/personnel to take us up another level. A real defensive 6 would certainly be a step in the right direction. Krychowiak would have been someone I thought could have been a good choice...Illarramendi, Camacho or Jorginho would be ideal really.

Start watching Thomas Delaney. That's the player that they need.

 

[YNWA14]

Start watching Thomas Delaney. That's the player that they need.

I was under the impression he was more of a CM/B2B guy but I'll keep my eye on him.

 

[Savant]

I was under the impression he was more of a CM/B2B guy but I'll keep my eye on him.

He is active but more responsible defensively in my opinion. He is amazing in the air as well offensively and defensively.

 

[Cassano]

What are you basing this on? FSG certainly provided the funds this summer. Klopp only wanted Van Dijk. This is the first summer the board got it right, according to the most widely accepted Liverpool sources.

I don't think that is the wrong approach necessarily. We've seen for years that Liverpool bought target to fill a need, but weren't quite good enough (Talking about the Downing, Benteke, etc). Arsenal did it last year with Mustafi - shelled out 40m for him and end up wanting to sell him this summer.

I suppose they could've looked more into a guy like Rudiger, but I don't think he was gonna turn down Chelsea. Other then that, who else could've been targeted?

Southampton not selling VvD sucks for Liverpool, but I wouldn't blame the manager for that.

 

[Savant]

I don't think that is the wrong approach necessarily. We've seen for years that Liverpool bought target to fill a need, but weren't quite good enough (Talking about the Downing, Benteke, etc). Arsenal did it last year with Mustafi - shelled out 40m for him and end up wanting to sell him this summer.

I suppose they could've looked more into a guy like Rudiger, but I don't think he was gonna turn down Chelsea. Other then that, who else could've been targeted?

Southampton not selling VvD sucks for Liverpool, but I wouldn't blame the manager for that.

I think that there is a middle ground between Van Dijk and Nobody. The fact is Klopp is completely responsible for Liverpool not getting Van Dijk, but also not getting anyone else. He refused to consider alternatives, which he made abundantly clear with his own words. He said the players he had were good enough. If it's not the players fault, whose fault is it?

As for who else could have been targeted, the answer could have been anyone. The problem is there was not a Plan B.

 

[Baxterman]

I don't think that is the wrong approach necessarily. We've seen for years that Liverpool bought target to fill a need, but weren't quite good enough (Talking about the Downing, Bennteke, etc). Arsenal did it last year with Mustafi - shelled out 40m for him and end up wanting to sell him this summer.

I suppose they could've looked more into a guy like Rudiger, but I don't think he was gonna turn down Chelsea. Other then that, who else could've been targeted?

In terms of guys that moved that would have helped them- Davison Sanchez, Harry Maguire, Michael Keane are 3 that immediately come to mind.

Others rumoured to be available- De Vries, Mawson, Evans and a pile that I am sure are out there but my limited knowledge can't figure out.

 

[Cassano]

I think that there is a middle ground between Van Dijk and Nobody. The fact is Klopp is completely responsible for Liverpool not getting Van Dijk, but also not getting anyone else. He refused to consider alternatives, which he made abundantly clear with his own words. He said the players he had were good enough. If it's not the players fault, whose fault is it?

As for who else could have been targeted, the answer could have been anyone. The problem is there was not a Plan B.

Sometimes you're better off without the Plan B.

In terms of guys that moved that would have helped them- Davison Sanchez, Harry Maguire, Michael Keane are 3 that immediately come to mind.

Others rumoured to be available- De Vries, Mawson, Evans and a pile that I am sure are out there but my limited knowledge can't figure out.

I don't think any of those names, with the exception of De Vries are any better than Lovren or Matip. Sanchez as well, but I don't think it'd be outlandish to suggest the player would prefer playing for Spurs instead of Liverpool.

 

[YNWA14]

Sanchez is not better than Lovren and at that point you may as well give starts to Gomez (who is better than Sanchez). de Vrij would have been a good player to get, and there are others obviously. Personally I would have looked for a defender who was strong in the air, good tactically and relied a little less on athleticism, though I know that's a hallmark of Klopp's teams.

The problem with Matip, Lovren and Klavan (and formerly Sakho) is that they are all prone to the occasional brainfart. In Klopp's system that can't happen because the defence is very isolated in games where we're controlling most of the play because our fullbacks push up the field as wingers and our 6 provides little cover. That means we're essentially playing a 2 man backline with a roaming 6; not the best combination for a team with defenders who lack in concentration. Klopp should be looking for older, experienced defenders that are tactically astute and good in the air. The rest of the team can do the running for them.

 

[Baxterman]

I don't think any of those names, with the exception of De Vries are any better than Lovren or Matip. Sanchez as well, but I don't think it'd be outlandish to suggest the player would prefer playing for Spurs instead of Liverpool.

See I am not a fan at all of Matip or Lovren so I would definitely take Keane and Sanchez over Lovren and definitely all the guys mentioned over Klavan.

I do think that the one thing that most of them do better than Lovren (and especially Klavan) though is not play the ball like it is a hand grenade so while we may be able to debate whether they are better or not I do think they bring something different that may be useful as a change up at times.

 

[Baxterman]

Sanchez is not better than Lovren and at that point you may as well give starts to Gomez (who is better than Sanchez).

LOL

Ok then you go with that.

 

[Savant]

Sanchez is already starting games for Tottenham. Whether he is better than Lovren or not, there is no debate that he is better than Klavan, who has to play in too many games because of the injury proneness of Lovren and Matip, and Gomez having to play RB with Clyne injured and Trent out of form/too raw. It's a horrible oversight.

Tottenham seems to buy a new defender with an Ajax pedigree every year they need a new CB, which is a terrific strategy. Every thing that Tottenham does is with tactics in mind, which is why everyone settles in quick. If players don't fit they are funneled out quickly and the team reinvests.

Liverpool has no such direction.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sanchez is already starting games for Tottenham. Whether he is better than Lovren or not, there is no debate that he is better than Klavan, who has to play in too many games because of the injury proneness of Lovren and Matip, and Gomez having to play RB with Clyne injured and Trent out of form/too raw. It's a horrible oversight.

Tottenham seems to buy a new defender with an Ajax pedigree every year they need a new CB, which is a terrific strategy. Every thing that Tottenham does is with tactics in mind, which is why everyone settles in quick. If players don't fit they are funneled out quickly and the team reinvests.

Liverpool has no such direction.

Tottenham can integrate defenders easily, but they've struggled buying striker options over the years. All systems have advantages and disadvantages when it comes to integrating new players.

A system like Liverpool's will mean they'll always struggle to integrate non-elite CB's, just how it would be difficult for more defensive systems to integrate non-elite forwards, like at Tottenham and Chelsea.

 

[YNWA14]

Tottenham can integrate defenders easily, but they've struggled buying striker options over the years. All systems have advantages and disadvantages when it comes to integrating new players.

A system like Liverpool's will mean they'll always struggle to integrate non-elite CB's, just how it would be difficult for more defensive systems to integrate non-elite forwards, like at Tottenham and Chelsea.

This is a good way of looking at it. It's always easier to integrate a player if they are insulated. Klopp's system is hyper-offense oriented which means regardless of who they buy for the back the player is getting a trial by fire. Again, I think it would behoove Liverpool to look at more experienced defenders in the future who are less mistake prone/panicky even if maybe a bit less athletic. Though personally I would build most teams that way; experience, calmness from the back forward and energy, athleticism and exuberance up front (though obviously the premium is on talent).

 

[Savant]

Tottenham can integrate defenders easily, but they've struggled buying striker options over the years. All systems have advantages and disadvantages when it comes to integrating new players.

A system like Liverpool's will mean they'll always struggle to integrate non-elite CB's, just how it would be difficult for more defensive systems to integrate non-elite forwards, like at Tottenham and Chelsea.

Well both of those teams are built from the back. Liverpool....is not.

Also it appears that the Drogba style strikers are the ones dominating the league right now; Kane, Lukaku, etc.

Firmino, while a good tactical fit defensively, leaves much to be desired in the finishing department. Big guys that can overpower defenders is the current trend. Liverpool has no one that fits that bill. I don't know any available center forwards that fit that Liverpool can get to fit that role, but that may do wonders for they chance conversation. But I don't know that Klopp wants to drop Firmino either.

Defensively obviously he identified Virgil as a scheme fit which is great for the identity he wants to build, but again I refuse to believe Virgil is the only CB that can do that. Lovren and Klavan are train wrecks. Gomez is young. Matip isn't aggressive. It's an identity crisis back there and Klopp's loyalty to Lovren is hurting them tremendously.