World Cup: 2016 World Cup — Team Canada (Part II)

[WayneSid9987]

Surprised Hall didn't make it cuz him and Sid worked REALLY well at last years Worlds.
Giroux-Seguin was deadly in that tourney.

I hope Benn-Giroux-Seguin is a line.
Crosby and Bergeron are really good together, historically.
They probably roll that and test out LW's there, Marchand/Duchene/Tavares
or they could test one of those LW's with Sid-Stamkos.

I'm not really displeased with any of the selections/non-selections.

 

[uncleben]

Muzzin over Subban? Really?


And no Hall?

 

[JackSlater]

Tavares has played wing in a TC uni...2009 WJ for starters, pretty sure Quinn had him on the right side...Really, Tavares has no problem playing any forward position...

Nope, he was the number one centre in 2009. Didomenico and Esposito as his wingers. When he was 13th forward in 2008 he probably played some spot duty at wing.

Even if he was eligible for Canada, there is no way he would make this team.

McDavid probably would make it, likely over Duchene. Hockey Canada wouldn't want to get a blast for leaving him off like the Crosby 2006 situation. They did eliminate that risk by allowing the Young Gunz concept to go forward though.

 

[nbwingsfan]

To start, the last 4 seasons combined, Subban has significantly outplayed is team on the penalty kill averaging 5.66 goals per hour against compared to his team's 6.2 and averaged 46.6 shots against per hour to his team's 49.7

Montreal has been the 7th penalty killing team in the league during this time frame, so its not like he's outcompeting scrub competition.

In comparison to the entire league, Subban has the 7th best shots against rate and 12th best goals against rate amoung defenseman who played at least 400 minutes of penalty kill over this time frame.


Neither Burns, Pietroangelo, Weber, nor Doughty have a penalty kill stat line remotely as good as Subban's. Pietroangelo has pretty good overall results, but they are in the context of the league's best penalty killing team and Barret Jackman is the star performer of that group not AP.


At even strength, Subban has run a goal percentage of 54.4% which is 4.76% better than his team over this stretch of years. He is likewise a 4.18% better than his team at corsi%. His corsi for is best and against is the 2nd best on his team for these 4 seasons. Subban runs in at the 12 best relative goal percentage in the league better than any of his Team Canada comparison players and 13th best in relative fenwick percentage amoung players with 3000 minutes (roughly top four defenseman) during this time frame.

In short, Subban's statistical tendancy is to massively outperform his team at puck possession at even strength, which results in a commesurate out-performance in terms of results.

Compare this to both Pietroangelo and Weber, who haven't outperformed their team much in recent years, and Subban looks like very much the superior even strength player as well.

1. I said Subban was terrible THIS season defensively, and you decided to you a 4 year sample to prove he wasn't... how were his stats this season? I'm assuming not great.

2. Your entire argument revolves around how much better Subban was compared to his teammates. Why? Why wouldn't you compare him to the players who beat him out for this spot? Of course it will be harder for Weber to have better numbers than Josi/Ekholm or Petro against Bowmeester /Shattenkirk. Montreal's D is mediocre at best.

 

[tade]

I think that Muzzin is getting recognition that he deserves. He's damn great defenseman and one of the most underrated defenseman in the NHL, imo. He scored 40 points in 2 consecutive seasons, he's rock solid defensively, LHD, and did not refuse to join the WHC team.

Subban and Letang are better than him, but they are also RHD, and unfortunately for them, Canada is trying to build the team, not absolute all-star roster although I would prefer them to build the team from BPA because I don't really care about the results in this tournament. But I can see why they went with Muzzin, he fits to Canada's defensive structure and I can imagine that Babcock really wanted him on his roster.

I would prefer either Subban or Letang over Pietrangelo.

 

[Pandaman11]

Muzzin over Subban? Really?

Muzzin has nothing to do with Subban. He's part of the LHD group.

Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo & Burns have been selected over Subban.

 

[snipes]

Muzzin has nothing to do with Subban. He's part of the LHD group.

Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo & Burns have been selected over Subban.

This.

It's actually unfortunate for Subban, Canada has the deepest pool of RHD likely in the history of game. Most great Canadian D men have been LHD.

 

[tade]

I have new line-up in my mind, I will probably post different line-up every 2nd day.

Tavares-Crosby-Bergeron
Benn-Giroux-Seguin
Marchand-Toews-Carter
Duchene-Getzlaf-Stamkos
Thornton

Vlasic-Burns
Muzzin-Doughty
Keith-Weber
Pietrangelo

 

[Scotty B]

Surprised Hall didn't make it cuz him and Sid worked REALLY well at last years Worlds.
Giroux-Seguin was deadly in that tourney.

I hope Benn-Giroux-Seguin is a line.
Crosby and Bergeron are really good together, historically.
They probably roll that and test out LW's there, Marchand/Duchene/Tavares
or they could test one of those LW's with Sid-Stamkos.

I'm not really displeased with any of the selections/non-selections.

Sure that's what they said , prior to Sochi...BUT the great chemistry they showed was way back in the 2005 World Jrs when Bergeron was 18 and Sid 17...Hall and Crosby had great chemistry together against much better competition at the 2015 WC's

 

[Scotty B]

Sure that's what they said , prior to Sochi...BUT the great chemistry they showed was way back in the 2005 World Jrs when Bergeron was 18 and Sid 17...Hall and Crosby had great chemistry together against much better competition at the 2015 WC's

Perry was the 3rd member of that line...as many will doubtless recall...but its not like that long ago history was taken into account...

 

[uncleben]

Muzzin has nothing to do with Subban. He's part of the LHD group.

Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo & Burns have been selected over Subban.

I know this'll be controversial if it gets picked up, but I think the metric of LHD/RHD is a little overvalued

 

[SotasicA]

I know this'll be controversial if it gets picked up, but I think the metric of LHD/RHD is a little overvalued

I agree, especially considering how with forwards they picked 12 centers and only 1 natural winger.

 

[Budddy]

Overall pretty decent and very deep but very puzzled with Thornton instead of Hall or O'Reilly

 

[Habsawce]

1. I said Subban was terrible THIS season defensively, and you decided to you a 4 year sample to prove he wasn't... how were his stats this season? I'm assuming not great.

2. Your entire argument revolves around how much better Subban was compared to his teammates. Why? Why wouldn't you compare him to the players who beat him out for this spot? Of course it will be harder for Weber to have better numbers than Josi/Ekholm or Petro against Bowmeester /Shattenkirk. Montreal's D is mediocre at best.

I assume you forgot Price got hurt, who will also be at the tournament. How about you show his defensive stats before and after Condon decided to be awful. At the end of the day, who cares. This is a money grab tournament run by greedy morons. Personally I hope it flops and we have them go to the Olympics every 4 years instead of this.

Over/Under on players getting injuries because of competitiveness before training camp?

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Subban had a solid defensive year this season. He was a significant plus player 5 on 5 on a minus team with league worst goaltending. He's one of the league's best two-way play drivers at even strength and is a better penalty killer than the guys he's competiting for a spot with.

If your going on Subban being bad defensively, you really have not a single idea of what you are talking about.



If I grant you the premise that Burns had a monster year and thus deserves one of the spots, what on earth did Pietroangelo do to deserve a place on the team beyond have his GM be in charge of selecting the team? At this point in time there is no role that AP could play that Subban doesn't do better.

lol common.

burns and subban would have been compeeting for the same type of spot. AP is better defensively than subban who was a turn over machine last year. and to be fair your first comment has some validity cause guess what, there are politics in hockey at ALL LEVELS.

 

[The Bad Seed*]

Absolutely disgusting and embarrassing that subban didn't make the team I have no idea how they can justify that decision

Because the guys picking the team know that he's not really that good. He is a product of his goalie. It was ridiculous he won that Norris over Sutter. Honestly, I would of taken Reily before I took subban. I would of taken Ekblad before subban if we could of. i would take Burns and Petro seven days a week over subban.

Hes a punk, he hides behind ref's, hes a total distraction. Im really glad, when it counts the powers that be, see it the same way most of everyone not a canadiens fan sees it.

 

[Habsawce]

Because the guys picking the team know that he's not really that good. He is a product of his goalie. It was ridiculous he won that Norris over Sutter. Honestly, I would of taken Reily before I took subban. I would of taken Ekblad before subban if we could of. i would take Burns and Petro seven days a week over subban.

Hes a punk, he hides behind ref's, hes a total distraction. Im really glad, when it counts the powers that be, see it the same way most of everyone not a canadiens fan sees it.

Jealousy comes in many shapes.

 

[WeberBombs]

Because the guys picking the team know that he's not really that good. He is a product of his goalie. It was ridiculous he won that Norris over Sutter. Honestly, I would of taken Reily before I took subban. I would of taken Ekblad before subban if we could of. i would take Burns and Petro seven days a week over subban.

Hes a punk, he hides behind ref's, hes a total distraction. Im really glad, when it counts the powers that be, see it the same way most of everyone not a canadiens fan sees it.

Sutter plays D now?

Seriously though, can't believe there wasnt a better LHD option than Muzzin...

 

[V13]

I'm an Habs fan and as far as the whole Subban debacle go i have to say that i agree with Team Canada picks. If PK was a LHD things would be different but alas he is a RHD and the depth at that position is insane. He is a casaulty of that.

That said i really would have liked to see McDavid make the team but i know that because of his age it's a case of "too soon".

 

[tade]

Sutter plays D now?

Seriously though, can't believe there wasnt a better LHD option than Muzzin...

LHD? Basically only Giordano and Brodie and I am glad that they picked Muzzin over them.

Giordano and Brodie both had chance to prove that they belong on this roster and they rather took time off, declined invitations to WHC and probably decided that it's not worth it to fight for the spot. Muzzin did his job in 2015, he was very good there, and he had 2 great seasons in NHL.

Hockey Canada have made right selection here.

 

[Malcolm]

LHD? Basically only Giordano and Brodie and I am glad that they picked Muzzin over them.

Giordano and Brodie both had chance to prove that they belong on this roster and they rather took time off, declined invitations to WHC and probably decided that it's not worth it to fight for the spot. Muzzin did his job in 2015, he was very good there, and he had 2 great seasons in NHL.

Hockey Canada have made right selection here.

Defence selections are fine. Hall and ROR being left off not fine.

 

[PM]

Putting Muzzin on this team over Letang due to handedness is beyond ridiculous. I'm not sure why handedness is even such a big issue. How is it more of an issue than our forward group being all centres?

 

[Semantics]

Putting Muzzin on this team over Letang due to handedness is beyond ridiculous. I'm not sure why handedness is even such a big issue. How is it more of an issue than our forward group being all centres?

Or maybe it's that Muzzin is a vastly superior defender and would have beaten out Letang even if they had the same handedness. They don't need more dmen who generate offensive at the expense of defense.

 

[tade]

Putting Muzzin on this team over Letang due to handedness is beyond ridiculous. I'm not sure why handedness is even such a big issue. How is it more of an issue than our forward group being all centres?

Maybe it is because defensemen are less comfortable when playing on their off side. Most centers picked by Hockey Canada are pretty versatile and have experience with playing on wing. And the amount of elite centers that Canada have is just insanely good... They are too good to leave off the roster at the expense of 'natural' wingers who at the same time are not so great players when compared to these particular centers.

It is not exactly the same for defense even though Canada has much deeper RHDs. The reason might be in transition from one side to another or simply that Canada does not want so many offensive defencemen on the roster.

I think a lot of people are simply underrating Muzzin, his abilities and the sense for defensive part of the game.

 

[Oberyn]

To start, the last 4 seasons combined, Subban has significantly outplayed is team on the penalty kill averaging 5.66 goals per hour against compared to his team's 6.2 and averaged 46.6 shots against per hour to his team's 49.7

Montreal has been the 7th penalty killing team in the league during this time frame, so its not like he's outcompeting scrub competition.

In comparison to the entire league, Subban has the 7th best shots against rate and 12th best goals against rate amoung defenseman who played at least 400 minutes of penalty kill over this time frame.


Neither Burns, Pietroangelo, Weber, nor Doughty have a penalty kill stat line remotely as good as Subban's. Pietroangelo has pretty good overall results, but they are in the context of the league's best penalty killing team and Barret Jackman is the star performer of that group not AP.


At even strength, Subban has run a goal percentage of 54.4% which is 4.76% better than his team over this stretch of years. He is likewise a 4.18% better than his team at corsi%. His corsi for is best and against is the 2nd best on his team for these 4 seasons. Subban runs in at the 12 best relative goal percentage in the league better than any of his Team Canada comparison players and 13th best in relative fenwick percentage amoung players with 3000 minutes (roughly top four defenseman) during this time frame.

In short, Subban's statistical tendancy is to massively outperform his team at puck possession at even strength, which results in a commesurate out-performance in terms of results.

Compare this to both Pietroangelo and Weber, who haven't outperformed their team much in recent years, and Subban looks like very much the superior even strength player as well.

I might be reading this wrong here, but Barret Jackman plays for the Nashville Predators. How exactly is he the star PK performer on the Blues?