2016 NHL Entry Draft Discussion.

[OgieO]

Re: the centre issue

I think some are letting the recent season cloud their view of Turris. The year before he made good progress to a mid 60 point player that played a very good 200 foot game. Not unlike recent cup champion Patrice Bergeron.

Besides, there is not ONE way to build a roster to win a cup. For years you 'had' to have a franchise dman (we have one of those), now its the elite C. Next it will be something else.

If Zibby takes another step and becomes more consistent, he and Turris are a fine 1/2 punch - especially where we have Karlsson. Most teams don't have a Karlsson.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Re: the centre issue

I think some are letting the recent season cloud their view of Turris. The year before he made good progress to a mid 60 point player that played a very good 200 foot game. Not unlike recent cup champion Patrice Bergeron.

Besides, there is not ONE way to build a roster to win a cup. For years you 'had' to have a franchise dman (we have one of those), now its the elite C. Next it will be something else.

If Zibby takes another step and becomes more consistent, he and Turris are a fine 1/2 punch - especially where we have Karlsson. Most teams don't have a Karlsson.

I think we believe Turris is a good Center. IMO he is a lower end 1C and would be a fantastic 2C if he had someone better.

If Zibby ... If Zibby... Yes all hypothetically possible. Leaving a position that we hoping for improvement in and that can be improved on. We can just wait and see.

But fine vs Good enough to be a top tier team now , reduced ifs, I think was the gist.

Having Karlsson;

By having Karlsson our Center position is fine as is?
How 'bout our Left Wingers, Rght Wingers?
or our Defensemen ?

So We have Karlsson we are good no improvements needed at any position.

 

[Jerrico]

In my opinion, you need both a top-flight dman and top-flight centre to win the cup. And I just don't see Turris or Zib getting there. Turris is an average first line centre at best, and if everything goes right for Zib, he might become an average first line centre too. I agree that Turris and Bergeron share quite a few similarities, but Bergeron is better at almost everything.

Back to draft discussion...my biggest fear about this draft is that the following players will go top 11: Matthews, Laine, puljujarvi, Dubois, Nylander, Tkachuk, Chychrun, Juolevi, Jost, Brown, and Fabbro.

My concern is that in this scenario our scouts would pass on Sergachev (because he's Russian) and Keller (because he's small) in favour of Gauthier or Mcleod.

 

[HSF]

I agree that the sens need a better center. Will Zibby be that guy? Im not sure or convinced as of yet

Matthews would be a dreaaammm

 

[Sensinitis]

I think we believe Turris is a good Center. IMO he is a lower end 1C and would be a fantastic 2C if he had someone better.

If Zibby ... If Zibby... Yes all hypothetically possible. Leaving a position that we hoping for improvement in and that can be improved on. We can just wait and see.

But fine vs Good enough to be a top tier team now , reduced ifs, I think was the gist.

Having Karlsson;

By having Karlsson our Center position is fine as is?
How 'bout our Left Wingers, Rght Wingers?
or our Defensemen ?

So We have Karlsson we are good no improvements needed at any position.

This is a very scattered thought process to understand lol.

It's an if that Zbad will improve next season? He's been improving every year. And this summer he will be training in Ottawa, for the first time. You don't think he'll produce better than 20G 50pts next year? If you don't, you're ignorant.

You don't think having Turris back will improve our center depth? You don't think a 65 point two way center with room to improve is "good enough" on our first line?

Did you forget about Stone,Hoffman who are 60 point+ players? We don't have Nigel Dawes or Andre Hamel playing with the centers that are "fine" in your opinion. Those are 2 excellent wingers.

What about Ryan,Smith,MacArthur who provide great depth? You're acting as if we have "fine" center depth (which we don't, but bare with me), and that we ALSO HAVE "FINE" WINGER DEPTH AND PRODUCTION FROM THE REST OF OUR LINEUP.

But actually, we have Stone and Hoffman who provide excellent production. We have MacArthur,Smith,Ryan who provide great depth AND we have ERIK KARLSSON PROVIDING PPG OFFENSE. LOL.

Like wow. And do you even have an opinion? It seems like you're just blasting our centers.

But if you don't like our centers, is that because you don't think we can compete with them? Why? Don't we have enough depth in the other positions? At wing? What about on defense where we have the ONLY PPG dman in the league, and a top 5 scorer in the league. Do you just conviniently leave those factors out?

What is even your point? That we don't have enough offense? Well, we were 8th in goals scored. Without Turris. Without MacArthur. And with players like Zbad,Lazar,Hoffman,Stone,Pageau still young and developing.

If it's not that, what? Our forwards aren't responsible defensively? Or the team isn't? Well we have Turris who is great two way who will be with us next year, Zbad is very solid defensively and so is Pageau. And we've added Phaneuf to stabilize our top-4

So what's your point? Is it just blind bashing of our centers? Because if you blindly look at our centers and disregard their potential and age, I can understand how you say they're just "fine". But what about everything else? There seems to be a hidden agenda here. I'd love for you to prove me wrong with counter-arguments.

 

[Sensinitis]

In my opinion, you need both a top-flight dman and top-flight centre to win the cup. And I just don't see Turris or Zib getting there. Turris is an average first line centre at best, and if everything goes right for Zib, he might become an average first line centre too. I agree that Turris and Bergeron share quite a few similarities, but Bergeron is better at almost everything.

Back to draft discussion...my biggest fear about this draft is that the following players will go top 11: Matthews, Laine, puljujarvi, Dubois, Nylander, Tkachuk, Chychrun, Juolevi, Jost, Brown, and Fabbro.

My concern is that in this scenario our scouts would pass on Sergachev (because he's Russian) and Keller (because he's small) in favour of Gauthier or Mcleod.

Name me one top flight dman on the level of Karlsson's in the past 20 years.

Don't you think the difference between Karlsson and the other top flight dmen makes it less prejudicial to have Zbad and Turris and Pageau as 1-2-3?

And if you don't, don't you think having great wingers depth compensates as well with Stone,Hoffman,Ryan,MacArthur,Smith and possibly another addition if Dorion follows through with what he's saying?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This is a very scattered thought process to understand lol.

It's an if that Zbad will improve next season? He's been improving every year. And this summer he will be training in Ottawa, for the first time. You don't think he'll produce better than 20G 50pts next year? If you don't, you're ignorant.

You don't think having Turris back will improve our center depth? You don't think a 65 point two way center with room to improve is "good enough" on our first line?

Did you forget about Stone,Hoffman who are 60 point+ players? We don't have Nigel Dawes or Andre Hamel playing with the centers that are "fine" in your opinion. Those are 2 excellent wingers.

What about Ryan,Smith,MacArthur who provide great depth? You're acting as if we have "fine" center depth (which we don't, but bare with me), and that we ALSO HAVE "FINE" WINGER DEPTH AND PRODUCTION FROM THE REST OF OUR LINEUP.

But actually, we have Stone and Hoffman who provide excellent production. We have MacArthur,Smith,Ryan who provide great depth AND we have ERIK KARLSSON PROVIDING PPG OFFENSE. LOL.

Like wow. And do you even have an opinion? It seems like you're just blasting our centers.

But if you don't like our centers, is that because you don't think we can compete with them? Why? Don't we have enough depth in the other positions? At wing? What about on defense where we have the ONLY PPG dman in the league, and a top 5 scorer in the league. Do you just conviniently leave those factors out?

What is even your point? That we don't have enough offense? Well, we were 8th in goals scored. Without Turris. Without MacArthur. And with players like Zbad,Lazar,Hoffman,Stone,Pageau still young and developing.

If it's not that, what? Our forwards aren't responsible defensively? Or the team isn't? Well we have Turris who is great two way who will be with us next year, Zbad is very solid defensively and so is Pageau. And we've added Phaneuf to stabilize our top-4

So what's your point? Is it just blind bashing of our centers? Because if you blindly look at our centers and disregard their potential and age, I can understand how you say they're just "fine". But what about everything else? There seems to be a hidden agenda here. I'd love for you to prove me wrong with counter-arguments.

Look. If you can't follow it's not my fault. You blast around with your opinions like they sit above all.

I think if you follow along you will see that I am responding to another poster's points.

I also do not think it is necessary to constantly repeat my position every response.

Prove .... with counter arguments... are you kidding me. This statement alone is ridiculous. How old are you? You do not have an argument. You have an opinion. I too have an opinion. These are not arguments. You try to substantiate your opinion by connecting dots and drawing conclusions that support your opinion.

My Opinion as simple as it may be, is that the Senators could benefit an upgrade at Center. Period. It is not a current position of strength.

Others possibly you included have stated another opinion, that with Karlsson our Centers are fine. My opinion on that is that having Karlsson can mask other deficiencies but does not negate that in my opinion Center is not a position of strength and we would benefit from improving it.


Your post has taken a gigantic leap from that point.

Anyway we are filling up what was a very good thread with a lot of BS on your agenda In my opinion. Perhaps you can make an "Argument" that proves that wrong to your imaginary jury.

 

[OgieO]

I think we believe Turris is a good Center. IMO he is a lower end 1C and would be a fantastic 2C if he had someone better.

If Zibby ... If Zibby... Yes all hypothetically possible. Leaving a position that we hoping for improvement in and that can be improved on. We can just wait and see.

But fine vs Good enough to be a top tier team now , reduced ifs, I think was the gist.

Having Karlsson;

By having Karlsson our Center position is fine as is?
How 'bout our Left Wingers, Rght Wingers?
or our Defensemen ?

So We have Karlsson we are good no improvements needed at any position.

That's a massive leap from what I wrote. Strawman at its finest. My point is you and others are being pretty narrow minded with your "we need to upgrade centre" mantra. Obviously that's an important position but making it seem like we HAVE to have an elite #1C to win a cup is fallacy imo. Probably a stronger indicator is team defense if you look at the GA of recent winners.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That's a massive leap from what I wrote. Strawman at its finest. My point is you and others are being pretty narrow minded with your "we need to upgrade centre" mantra. Obviously that's an important position but making it seem like we HAVE to have an elite #1C to win a cup is fallacy imo. Probably a stronger indicator is team defense if you look at the GA of recent winners.

I can accept that in the specifics of your wording.
Yes I made a leap there to try to make a point referring to the Karlsson point Can a team succeed with strength at other positions to mask their weaknesses .. obviously yes. I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. Can we be a better team with better Centers .. I think yes as well. If we had a Center better than Turris and Turris was our number 2 we would be a better team IMO.

I never really said we needed an elite center, just that an that upgrade would help. Looking at team deficiencies our GA has to improve. That can be attributable to systems, technique and commitment (compete level) to playing team defense likely more than the personnel.

When you think of the Olympics Team Canada (and other teams) are built with a lot of Offensive players that play outside their normal roles and need to commit to structure and team defense that they typically are not be used to playing. Also certain players do this while adjusting to play different positions.

I do not believe I am being narrow minded about this; I am not sure you can point to a specific narrow minded comment; I apologize if it comes across that way.

 

[Othello*]

Gotta agree with SOA on this one. Karlsson can mask some deficiencies but we still need an upgrade down the middle.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

In my opinion, you need both a top-flight dman and top-flight centre to win the cup. And I just don't see Turris or Zib getting there. Turris is an average first line centre at best, and if everything goes right for Zib, he might become an average first line centre too. I agree that Turris and Bergeron share quite a few similarities, but Bergeron is better at almost everything.

Back to draft discussion...my biggest fear about this draft is that the following players will go top 11: Matthews, Laine, puljujarvi, Dubois, Nylander, Tkachuk, Chychrun, Juolevi, Jost, Brown, and Fabbro.

My concern is that in this scenario our scouts would pass on Sergachev (because he's Russian) and Keller (because he's small) in favour of Gauthier or Mcleod.

I'm with you on that one. Some smaller players have had a lot of success recently. IMO Keller goes off the board earlier but I would definitely snag him if he's there.
Bean is hurt and could not play in the U18s he would not be a bad option. Pretty slick LD. Good Asset at worst.
Bellows would be ok too if it came to that imo as well. (NA CS has him above both Mcleod and Gauthier)

The hype around Mcleod really scares me based on his U18 performance which I would have thought would allow him to be a star among his age peers. I expected more from him.

 

[Micklebot]

Can we just win one of the lotteries and draft Laine or Mathews? Who's a guy gotta bribe to make that happen...

I've got Chuck Blazer on speed dial for some advise.

 

[aragorn]

Ottawa has a ton of good depth at centre & they might draft another one this yr.

Zibanejad
Turris
Pageau
Lazar
Smith
Paul
Dzingel
Brown/Mcleod

 

[Swedish House]

Ottawa has a ton of good depth at centre & they might draft another one this yr.

Zibanejad
Turris
Pageau
Lazar
Smith
Paul
Dzingel
Brown/Mcleod

+White

 

[aragorn]

+White

I forgot about him, MORE DEPTH!

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

For this team to be a contender, we will need Zib to be a better center than Turris.

I love Turris but if he's your number 1 C you're gonna get crushed in the playoffs. For us to be a legit contender for more than just 1 year, we would need Zib to be the better C on this team.

Zib 65
Turris 65

if each can score 65 points, we will be a force down the middle.

 

[ChabotToTrot]

I'm watching the U18s and Jost is just unbelievable. Already has 2 points in the first period. His vision is extremely impressive, his speed coupled with it makes him a top 10 pick. Its not like he's a defensive liability either, he's definitely a treat to watch. Definitely the guy I'd like to see Ottawa pick. Fabbro has been not too bad, but I'd rather a forward. Michael Mcleod has been meh, made a good pass but thats about it.

 

[stempniaksen]

I'm watching the U18s and Jost is just unbelievable. Already has 2 points in the first period. His vision is extremely impressive, his speed coupled with it makes him a top 10 pick. Its not like he's a defensive liability either, he's definitely a treat to watch. Definitely the guy I'd like to see Ottawa pick. Fabbro has been not too bad, but I'd rather a forward. Michael Mcleod has been meh, made a good pass but thats about it.

Agreed on Jost, pretty impressed with this Howden kid as well. Not overly impressed with Fabbro, just kind of reaffirms my belief we're grabbing a forwards this year.

 

[ChabotToTrot]

Agreed on Jost, pretty impressed with this Howden kid as well. Not overly impressed with Fabbro, just kind of reaffirms my belief we're grabbing a forwards this year.

Yeah was just thinking him and Bitten would be nice players to get in on as well. I'm also intrigued by Canada's goalie Evan Fitzpatrick. I definitely think we could probably use another goalie to polish in the system for a couple years with Anderson and Hammond coming to the end of their deals. Fitzpatrick looks calm, has good lateral movement, plays big, and has had a really good tourney.

 

[Agent Zub]

Logan Brown has been incredible too. Arguable the best passer in the draft.

I'd be happy with Jost, Keller, Brown or any player that drops. Except for Mcleod.

Casey Mittelstadt looks great too. Should be a high pick in 2017.

 

[Vaclav Varada]

Wishlist at 12:

1)Keller
2)Jost
3)Brown
4)Bean
5)Bellows

 

[ChabotToTrot]

Yeah draft Jost; he's our man. If Dorion can't do it, find someone who can

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Jost sounds really intriguing.....but dammit, I wish the kid took the WHL route. It would be so much easier to compare him to his peers.

 

[BondraTime]

Jost sounds really intriguing.....but dammit, I wish the kid took the WHL route. It would be so much easier to compare him to his peers.

This is so overblown.

He's been a standout at every international event, with all his peers.

He was the best forward at both U-18 events this year, with all the best guys from the CHL. He will be a standout at UND next year.

The two best Junior A players in the country this year will both go top 15 in this years draft, and for good reason.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

This is so overblown.

He's been a standout at every international event, with all his peers.

He was the best forward at both U-18 events this year, with all the best guys from the CHL. He will be a standout at UND next year.

The two best Junior A players in the country this year will both go top 15 in this years draft, and for good reason.

I'm not doubting the kid's skill or abilities. The clips I have seen of him are very impressive. But playing 70+ games of major junior + tournaments has a different effect that playing 48 games of Tier II against weaker competition + tournaments.