Pre-Game Talk: 2016 Canucks Development Camp

[me2]

According to Linden, he has grown and inch to be 6'3 and is 14-15 pounds heavier than last yr.
(I don't know how much he weighed last yr.. but i would 'guess' 190 would be ballpark now.)


Really looking forward to seeing him in game action with Team Canada this summer.
He should look pretty imposing at that size vs a lot of the Jr players.. (mind you they are all huge these days)

His skating should stand out at that size.

 

[VanJack]

Yes, Brisbois is developing nicely.....captain of his junior team at 17 and now a lot bigger and stronger.....would be nice to see a little more offense though...maybe now that he's on a much stronger QMJHL team.

 

[Zombotron]

Hoping for big years from Brisebois and Olsen before they graduate from the CHL. I think of something SonicY said the other day:

Putting together these polls has made me realize that this team has accumulated a ton of mid-tier defencemen.

and I agree

 

[VanJack]

Always surprises me how many very good NHL d-men spring from rather humble beginnings......seems a lot of them get drafted in later rounds and some even get picked up as un-drafted UFA's....assuming it must be very hard to scout d-men in Junior or College and project them as pros?....still, there's no denying that since coming on board Jimbo has loaded up on young d-men who all seem to be trending in a positive direction.

 

[quat]

Acctually you are the one that is underrating Etem as a prospect. He was a 1st rounder that for a long time people thought would be a top 6 winger, seen as one of the best players in the WHL, and scored the most goals in the whl in his draft+2 season, and was 5th in WHL goals scoed in his draft+1 season.

Etem became a ppg AHL player, but he hasnt got it together in NHL. If Stukel comes even close to being what Etem is now he is a successfull pick.

Im not trying to underrate Stukel here but you are underrating Etem who was an elite prospect. Etem is bigger, just as fast and better scorer IMO.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm reading here is that both Etem and Stukel have shown promise in junior, with Stukel's stint being delayed by the year he missed due to injury.

Today, we have Etem, a first round pick, fail to live up the promise he showed in Junior, while Stukel is still a big question mark. All thing being equal, simply because Etem plateaued in Junior, doesn't mean that Stukel can't improve because he's the lesser player in Junior.

That's not how things work. Of course, going by Junior careers, the chance that Stukel blooms into a top six player is less likely than the chance Etem had, and I believe the draft positions reflect that, although Jet's points are well made. Stukel missing a year may very well end up being to the Canucks benefit, similar to how Tanev's late growth spurt worked out. It would be cool if that's how things end up.

 

[tiny103]

Just wanted to throw in my thanks to people who were at the development camp and gave us a summary of what they saw.

 

[quat]

Just wanted to throw in my thanks to people who were at the development camp and gave us a summary of what they saw.

I agree. Really appreciate the efforts put forth from some fans on these boards.

 

[canuckfan75]

When asked who impressed him the most at camp

He sais Lukas Jansek? any update on him where is he playing next year

 

[JA]

So is he going to Utica or back to the juniors?

Jakob would be better served playing one more year in the WHL. He should step up as a major leader for his team. It should be viewed as his draft+1 season considering the lost year of development.

Last year, he was inconsistent as a player. He demonstrated the ability to dominate on the score sheet over the course of multiple games, then he would go without a point for a few games. He needs not only to round out his game and improve, but also to become more consistent.

Here is his 2015-16 game log: http://www.whl.ca/players/26567/game_by_game/251

You'll notice some terrific scoring streaks separated by offensive lulls. For example, in the final seven games of the season, he scored 10 points in 7 games, including four goals in the final three games of the 2015-16 regular season schedule. He had two hat tricks last season, including a four-point game against Tri-City on November 14, 2015. That game was also the start of a 14-game stretch during which he scored 15 goals, 20 points, book-ended by the aforementioned hat tricks (November 14 to December 13, 2015). He had a stretch of five goals in four games, including two multi-goal games in late February, as well as a streak of three goals, nine points in five games in late January, and four goals in three games between Christmas and New Year's Eve.

If he can learn to play at that level for significant periods and/or elevate his game further, he'll be a force in the WHL next season.

Edit: He apparently broke his thumb during his rookie season as well.

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/two-big-trade-deals-bring-fresh-faces-to-hitmen

“Jakob Stukel is a real quality, speedy, skilled guy that can score,” said Moore. “He’s had some injury issues through his Western League career. He blew his knee out at 16, broke a thumb last year, but our guys were very, very high on him since he was 14 years old, so I don’t think he’s seen the best of his hockey days yet and we’re excited to have him join our club.”

 

[F A N]

I have both the 2015&2016 Blackbook and they never use the term high IQ in Stukel's writeup, they didn't even provide a write up in 2015.

Read the game reports. Their reports highly suggest a player with pretty good hockey IQ. I posted this in the Stukel thread:

Hockey Prospects have had scouting reports on Stukel the last two years. Two seasons ago, they had him in many game reports (chronologically) Game 1: shows great puckhandling ability, deking skills, hand-eye coordination and passing
traits." Game 2: "A tremendous playmaker, he makes a lot of 'eyes in the back of his head'-type passes." Game 3: "A fantastic passer with tremendous vision and creatively, he stands out as a pass-first playmaker rather than a finisher." Game 4: In another game "I continue to really like Jakob Stukel's game as a key playmaker for the Giants. He looked great and especially creative tonight playing alongside centre Thomas Foster. He fed numerous centering feeds to Foster throughout the game, many of which fooled the Saskatoon defence. Definitely more of a
passer than a shooter, Stukel's speed and vision are a good compliment to straight-ahead players." Game 5: "a threatening presence on the half wall during the power play, as he he's able to 'thread the needle' with ease." There are more games with him in it but the above games are the games that talk about his passing ability.

This past season, Hockey Prospects' viewings seem to suggest he became more of a scorer than playmaker. But in their scouting report they still said "There is no question that Stukel posses a good offensive mind."

MS knows his WHL, I trust him. Here is scouting report from the hockeywriters:

He’s also pretty effective at puck distribution, ...

very few players in the WHL are as dangerous with the puck as Stukel, and that should be enough to get him drafted by some NHL club.
[/I]
http://thehockeywriters.com/jakob-stukel-the-next-ones-2016-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/

To me this scouting report reflects the scouting report provided by HP over the last two seasons and not the low IQ player MS suggests he is.

Got any other scouting sites that say that or do you just live and die with hockey prospects?

Have you seen him play?

See above. Why do you say I live and die with hockey prospects when some here live and die with MS? MS said he has low hockey IQ, isn't positionally smart, and doesn't use his linemates well. The scouting reports I have read contradict that on the offensive end. There's really not much on him since Stukel was expectedly passed over in his first draft eligible year and not many draft guides devote time to a 2nd year eligible player who isn't expected to go in the top 2 rounds.

Judd Brackett described Stukel as having a good nose for the net. And see the highlight package for yourself. Based on the highlight reel, he looks like a guy who is a real threat with the puck, has that scorer's patience. had the ability to find the seam, many times he jumped into the play with great timing, made some seeing eye passes as well as well-time short passes that set up a goal, many of his goals were right around the net that he scored off one timers or off rebounds.

He doesn't look at all like the player MS described him in terms of positioning and hockey IQ on the offensive end. I see a guy who constantly puts himself in position for one timers and rebounds, a guy who released his shots and passes at about the exact moment that he should. The way he played offensively actually reminds me a bit of how Hansen played with the Sedins this year.

 

[Verviticus]

I'm gonna suggest that if there are two people with qualitatively different impressions of a prospect, I'll take feeb vs anyone who posts on an online forum

 

[Ryp37]

Read the game reports. Their reports highly suggest a player with pretty good hockey IQ. I posted this in the Stukel thread:





To me this scouting report reflects the scouting report provided by HP over the last two seasons and not the low IQ player MS suggests he is.



See above. Why do you say I live and die with hockey prospects when some here live and die with MS? MS said he has low hockey IQ, isn't positionally smart, and doesn't use his linemates well. The scouting reports I have read contradict that on the offensive end. There's really not much on him since Stukel was expectedly passed over in his first draft eligible year and not many draft guides devote time to a 2nd year eligible player who isn't expected to go in the top 2 rounds.

Judd Brackett described Stukel as having a good nose for the net. And see the highlight package for yourself. Based on the highlight reel, he looks like a guy who is a real threat with the puck, has that scorer's patience. had the ability to find the seam, many times he jumped into the play with great timing, made some seeing eye passes as well as well-time short passes that set up a goal, many of his goals were right around the net that he scored off one timers or off rebounds.

He doesn't look at all like the player MS described him in terms of positioning and hockey IQ on the offensive end. I see a guy who constantly puts himself in position for one timers and rebounds, a guy who released his shots and passes at about the exact moment that he should. The way he played offensively actually reminds me a bit of how Hansen played with the Sedins this year.

Not sure why my original post was deleted but reading blurbs and watching highlight reels is the definition of keyboard scouting. People have watched the same videos, read the same blurbs and have actually seen him play disagree with you so not sure why your so strongly opinionated over this.

And I agree with Vert about feebs

 

[Askel]

Read the game reports. Their reports highly suggest a player with pretty good hockey IQ. I posted this in the Stukel thread:


To me this scouting report reflects the scouting report provided by HP over the last two seasons and not the low IQ player MS suggests he is.

See above. Why do you say I live and die with hockey prospects when some here live and die with MS? MS said he has low hockey IQ, isn't positionally smart, and doesn't use his linemates well. The scouting reports I have read contradict that on the offensive end. There's really not much on him since Stukel was expectedly passed over in his first draft eligible year and not many draft guides devote time to a 2nd year eligible player who isn't expected to go in the top 2 rounds.

Judd Brackett described Stukel as having a good nose for the net. And see the highlight package for yourself. Based on the highlight reel, he looks like a guy who is a real threat with the puck, has that scorer's patience. had the ability to find the seam, many times he jumped into the play with great timing, made some seeing eye passes as well as well-time short passes that set up a goal, many of his goals were right around the net that he scored off one timers or off rebounds.

He doesn't look at all like the player MS described him in terms of positioning and hockey IQ on the offensive end. I see a guy who constantly puts himself in position for one timers and rebounds, a guy who released his shots and passes at about the exact moment that he should. The way he played offensively actually reminds me a bit of how Hansen played with the Sedins this year.

Your evidence is a 2 year old blurb that says he is a good playmaker in a season where he had 11 assists in 46 games, and highlite scouting. I´ll stick with my own viewings, MS and Feebs and the 2 scouting reports I provided that descibes him as fast shooter, who scores most of his goals on the PP.

If he was a great playmaker he would have been picked higher. He is a junior finisher that can skate. Hopefully his game will develop, but right now he is longshot prospect (6th round picks are), and no he is not close to Etem.

 

[VanJack]

Don't have a clue about Jacob Stukel, but it is a little sobering to reflect that since 1990, the Canucks have only drafted a total of six (6), sixth rounders who ever played a game in the NHL....Matt Cooke was the best of the lot with 167 goals and over 1,000 games; and Brent Sopel was a serviceable 5-6 d-man for many years....the only four other guys were Evgeny Namestnikof (43 games); Sergei Shirokov (8 games and one goal); Alex Friesen (1 game) and of course Joe Cannata who sat on the bench as a backup but never played.....hands up, anyone who can remember Kris Fredheim, Johnathan Iilahti, Julien Ellis, Juraj Simek, Taylor Matson, Josh Reed or Paul Cabana among two dozen others?...and Chad Brownlee was another famous sixth rounder, known more for his country and western singing career than for his pro hockey prowess!

 

[RobertKron]

Don't have a clue about Jacob Stukel, but it is a little sobering to reflect that since 1990, the Canucks have only drafted a total of six (6), sixth rounders who ever played a game in the NHL....Matt Cooke was the best of the lot with 167 goals and over 1,000 games; and Brent Sopel was a serviceable 5-6 d-man for many years....the only four other guys were Evgeny Namestnikof (43 games); Sergei Shirokov (8 games and one goal); Alex Friesen (1 game) and of course Joe Cannata who sat on the bench as a backup but never played.....hands up, anyone who can remember Kris Fredheim, Johnathan Iilahti, Julien Ellis, Juraj Simek, Taylor Matson, Josh Reed or Paul Cabana among two dozen others?...and Chad Brownlee was another famous sixth rounder, known more for his country and western singing career than for his pro hockey prowess!

Fredheim played some NHL games.

I actually just looked up Matson the other day.

 

[Red]

Don't have a clue about Jacob Stukel, but it is a little sobering to reflect that since 1990, the Canucks have only drafted a total of six (6), sixth rounders who ever played a game in the NHL....Matt Cooke was the best of the lot with 167 goals and over 1,000 games; and Brent Sopel was a serviceable 5-6 d-man for many years....the only four other guys were Evgeny Namestnikof (43 games); Sergei Shirokov (8 games and one goal); Alex Friesen (1 game) and of course Joe Cannata who sat on the bench as a backup but never played.....hands up, anyone who can remember Kris Fredheim, Johnathan Iilahti, Julien Ellis, Juraj Simek, Taylor Matson, Josh Reed or Paul Cabana among two dozen others?...and Chad Brownlee was another famous sixth rounder, known more for his country and western singing career than for his pro hockey prowess!

Interestingly, say we disregard the last 3 years as it's too soon to judge those picks.

We hit 2/23 6th rounders playing more than 50 games from 1990-2013. (9% success)

We hit 8/27 5th rounders playing more than 50 games (30% success)

The draft is a crapshoot that late, but the more picks you have, the better your chances you get good players. We need to stop trading away late picks like candy as a bonus on a trade.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Don't have a clue about Jacob Stukel, but it is a little sobering to reflect that since 1990, the Canucks have only drafted a total of six (6), sixth rounders who ever played a game in the NHL....Matt Cooke was the best of the lot with 167 goals and over 1,000 games; and Brent Sopel was a serviceable 5-6 d-man for many years....the only four other guys were Evgeny Namestnikof (43 games); Sergei Shirokov (8 games and one goal); Alex Friesen (1 game) and of course Joe Cannata who sat on the bench as a backup but never played.....hands up, anyone who can remember Kris Fredheim, Johnathan Iilahti, Julien Ellis, Juraj Simek, Taylor Matson, Josh Reed or Paul Cabana among two dozen others?...and Chad Brownlee was another famous sixth rounder, known more for his country and western singing career than for his pro hockey prowess!

check out our 4th rounders games played then... hahah

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html

Since 1979 when the it was changed from the Amateur Draft

Marc Crawford - 179 games played 19g 31a 50p
Wendal Young - 187 games played 5-15-4 in 30 games as a Canucks
Ronnie Stern - 638 games played 75g 86a 161p and 2077 pims ---- 11points in 82 games as a canuck
Brett Hauer - 37 games played 0 as a canuck 4g 4a 8pts
Dieter Kochan - 21 games played 0 as a Canucks
Brandon Nolan - 6 games played with Carolina 1pt

 

[thefeebster]

Read the game reports. Their reports highly suggest a player with pretty good hockey IQ. I posted this in the Stukel thread:

HP isn't known to have the biggest Western presence and that is one of their biggest issues IMO. It may have played a factor here. In 2015, he did not warrant a write up or ranking, despite the positive game reports. Then the 2016 write-up reads completely different than the game reports in 2015. Which report is the right one? Two different scouts? Two different players?

Let's just quote the whole HP write up for 2016 so quotes don't get selectively quoted:

Stukel really took a step forward this season as he was traded from the Vancouver Giants to the Calgary Hitmen. After only scoring 4 points in his first twelve games with Vancouver he joined the Hitmen and tallied 56 points in 57 games. Stukel is a skilled forward with good puck skills and a very quick and accurate shot. He is also a very smooth yet powerful skater with great balance which he uses to protect the puck. He likes to hold on to the puck and try and make plays one on one but sometimes fails to see open passing options. There is no question that Stukel possesses a good offensive mind and the skills to be effective as an offensive producer, at least at the junior level.

Our main concern with this player is his play away from the puck. He sometimes seems complacent and waits to get engaged. He needs to work on competing away from the puck and becoming more of a 200 foot player.

And let's also discuss... IMO, High IQ does not equate passing ability. To attribute the trait "High IQ" to a player, it should not be limited to only one section of the ice. A high IQ player is smart all over the ice and can read the play well in advance (In a mold of a Sam Reinhart). Stukel does not read the play at that kind of a level, often getting tunnel vision in his drive towards the net, although i do like his speed and net drive. His reads and anticipation is nothing special in the NZ or DZ; in the OZ, he looks good, but i wouldn't say a standout at a junior level. That's the crux of my opinion on Stukel: NHL feet, Junior level for pretty much everything else.

 

[F A N]

I'm gonna suggest that if there are two people with qualitatively different impressions of a prospect, I'll take feeb vs anyone who posts on an online forum

My disagreement with feeb was over what's in the Black Book. This is a factual issue and I think feeb simply overlooked and now agrees with me.

Not sure why my original post was deleted

That usually means the mods determined it was not a good post.

but reading blurbs and watching highlight reels is the definition of keyboard scouting. People have watched the same videos, read the same blurbs and have actually seen him play disagree with you so not sure why your so strongly opinionated over this.

They aren't blurbs. They are game reports. And I didn't quote the whole thing. You do realize that scouts take notes of players when they watch a game right? They don't go home and write an essay.

People have watched the same videos, read the same blurbs and have actually seen him play disagree with you so not sure why your so strongly opinionated over this.

Who is disagreeing with me that fits that description. You? Have you watched him play? And how many of those you described above disagreed with me based purely on what they saw in the game(s) they watched? Seriously, how many people who formed their own opinion based on their own viewings change their mind by reading what others saw? At most they go back and pay closer attention to see if they missed something. Most of us are opinionated here. What is there to not understand? Aren't you strongly opinionated here?

Your evidence is a 2 year old blurb

What I listed was over 2 years.

HP isn't known to have the biggest Western presence and that is one of their biggest issues IMO. It may have played a factor here. In 2015, he did not warrant a write up or ranking, despite the positive game reports. Then the 2016 write-up reads completely different than the game reports in 2015. Which report is the right one? Two different scouts? Two different players?

I think HP did beef up their Western presence over the years, but it likely isn't as strong as their OHL presence. I think Stukel became more of a scorer this past season. This isn't unusual. Even Ray Whitney had a season where he scored more goals than he had assists.

And let's also discuss... IMO, High IQ does not equate passing ability. To attribute the trait "High IQ" to a player, it should not be limited to only one section of the ice. A high IQ player is smart all over the ice and can read the play well in advance (In a mold of a Sam Reinhart). Stukel does not read the play at that kind of a level, often getting tunnel vision in his drive towards the net, although i do like his speed and net drive. His reads and anticipation is nothing special in the NZ or DZ; in the OZ, he looks good, but i wouldn't say a standout at a junior level. That's the crux of my opinion on Stukel: NHL feet, Junior level for pretty much everything else.

Let's get one thing straight, my response was a reply to MS saying Stukel had poor hockey IQ at both ends of the rink. In my previous post, I did flesh out why I think Stukel doesn't have poor hockey IQ on the offensive end and I agree that it doesn't just relate to passing ability. I also believe someone described as having good vision and good offensive mind is not a suggestion that that player has poor hockey IQ on the offensive end. That was the purpose of the game reports.

I disagree with you that a player with high hockey IQ necessarily has high hockey IQ at both ends of the rink. There are plenty of players who exhibit high hockey IQ on the offensive end that don't know how to play defence and vice versa. Anyways, I'm not sure we are really disagreeing with each other. Do you think Stukel has poor hockey IQ on the offensive end?

 

[Ryp37]

So you've never seen him play but we're supposed to take your word that what everyone here is saying is wrong? Right got it, it is does to admit when you're wrong

 

[F A N]

So you've never seen him play but we're supposed to take your word that what everyone here is saying is wrong? Right got it

Who said anything about taking my word? When MS said his opinions were based on his own viewings I replied that it was fair enough. I think you are mistaken in all of this. And I disagreed based on what I read from Hockey Prospects, a respected independent scouting service. I prefer to trust them over a poster here. So what? Aren't you trusting what a couple of posters here say without watching him yourself? And I am suppose to take your word for it? Hmm...

 

[Ryp37]

Who said anything about taking my word? When MS said his opinions were based on his own viewings I replied that it was fair enough. I think you are mistaken in all of this. And I disagreed based on what I read from Hockey Prospects, a respected independent scouting service. I prefer to trust them over a poster here. So what? Aren't you trusting what a couple of posters here say without watching him yourself? And I am suppose to take your word for it? Hmm...

I trust what multiple sources say, not one like you are.

 

[F A N]

I trust what multiple sources say, not one like you are.

That's fine, but I don't see how your "keyboard scouting" is better or more reliable than mine. Like I said, as a Canucks fan, I hope that MS and feebster is dead wrong in regards to Stukel. I hope that Stukel does have the offensive mind and vision that HP said he does.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

My friend is a Season ticket holder to the Hitmen and he said that Stukel was far and away the best Forward on the team this season. He said Stukel is probably 1st/2nd round talent if you count this year as is Draft year and not his Draft + 1. This is coming from someone who saw him play at every home game. He wanted the flames to draft him in the 3rd. His prediction was a 45g 35a season next year.