2015 NHL redraft

[Strait2thecup]

But he did in fact get a lot of ice-time.The coach on the Leafs never hands ice-time to any young player.

Yessss a new excuse about Barzal from leaffever!!!!

“Ice time, run and gun, no defense, not a team player, MUH LEAFSSSSSSS”

 

[LeafFever]

Yessss a new excuse about Barzal from leaffever!!!!

“Ice time, run and gun, no defense, not a team player, MUH LEAFSSSSSSS”

16:28 TOI and 69 points speaks for itself.

 

[Mickey Marner]

What am I supposed to say to this? "Oh yeah well Matthews would be a third liner on the Islanders! Na na na boo boo!"

Had the Leafs taken Barzal instead of Marner in 2015, or even made the trade with Edmonton for 16th overall to add Marner & Barzal, Barzal would be a massive focal point of your offense and get plenty of "opportunities". He'd be a focal point of the offense for any team that traded for that 16th overall to draft him, zero doubt in my mind.

But hey, if you want to smugly claim he'd be a 4th liner on Toronto cause Kadri & Bozak would hold him back, feel free too.

Barzal would either take Bozak's position as 3C between JVR & Brown/Johnsson/Kapanen (without Marner some winger moves up the lineup) or Marner's position as 2RW beside Kadri and Marleau. He would almost certainly take Marner's spot playing the right side on PP1.

He would lose about 1.5 mpg of ice time, depending on how long Babcock decides his demotion to the 4th line should be, based on that one time he turned the puck over. And he would no longer have as many opportunities for carry in zone entries because Babcock likes to run a failing stretch-pass breakout.

I'd expect he scores at about a Marner pace, regardless of whether he's better or not. The Leafs have had a top-5 offense in consecutive seasons without anyone breaking 70 pts, Barzal certainly wouldn't come in and score 85.

 

[LeafFever]

So much focus on Barzal from Leaf fans

I answered a post that brought up Barzal.

 

[LeafFever]

Barzal would either take Bozak's position as 3C between JVR & Brown/Johnsson/Kapanen (without Marner some winger moves up the lineup) or Marner's position as 2RW beside Kadri and Marleau. He would almost certainly take Marner's spot playing the right side on PP1.

He would lose about 1.5 mpg of ice time, depending on how long Babcock decides his demotion to the 4th line should be, based on that one time he turned the puck over. And he would no longer have as many opportunities for carry in zone entries because Babcock likes to run a failing stretch-pass breakout.

I'd expect he scores at about a Marner pace, regardless of whether he's better or not. The Leafs have had a top-5 offense in consecutive seasons without anyone breaking 70 pts, Barzal certainly wouldn't come in and score 85.

This. Barzal would never get that TOI on the Leafs.
I mean jeeze, Travis Dermott was statistically so solid in his rookie season and he got less than 8 minutes in game 7. (And he scored a goal!). Babcock never trusts rookies and you have to start bottom 6.
Marner's production once he got more minutes and better linemates speaks for itself. Same with his playoff performance.

 

[Strait2thecup]

16:28 TOI and 69 points speaks for itself.

MUH LEAFS!!!!!!! god you’re sad

Barzal is still better than marner... get over it. You keep saying everything speaks for itself as if barzals 85 point season doesn’t.

 

[CREW99AW]

This. Barzal would never get that TOI on the Leafs.
I mean jeeze, Travis Dermott was statistically so solid in his rookie season and he got less than 8 minutes in game 7. (And he scored a goal!). Babcock never trusts rookies and you have to start bottom 6.
Marner's production once he got more minutes and better linemates speaks for itself. Same with his playoff performance.

Isles had several natural centers and an open 2nd line center position.
Great that the rookie Barzal grabbed that spot and outplayed others fighting for icetime.
Maybe instead of swipes at Barzal , you should ask why Dermott was not more dominant instead of simply solid?

Isles rookie Pulock (32 pts), started out slowly and gaining confidence. Forcing the coaching staff to give him more responsibility as the season went along.

 

[LeafFever]

Isles had several natural centers and an open 2nd line center position.
Great that the rookie Barzal grabbed that spot and outplayed others fighting for icetime.
Maybe instead of swipes at Barzal , you should ask why Dermott was not more dominant instead of simply solid?

Isles rookie Pulock (32 pts), started out slowly and gaining confidence. Forcing the coaching staff to give him more responsibility as the season went along.

Dermott looked great. What exactly should we complain about? He exceeded all expectations. Why should he have been more dominant? He was a second round pick who was 21. Babcock should have given him a bigger role this year. His overlying stats were great and better than some rookie Dmen already being on top 10 best DMen lists.

 

[LeafFever]

MUH LEAFS!!!!!!! god you’re sad

Barzal is still better than marner... get over it. You keep saying everything speaks for itself as if barzals 85 point season doesn’t.

Leaf fans show facts to back-up their opinions. Non-Leaf fans not so much.
Place Marner on Arizona and you're all overrating him.

 

[CREW99AW]

Dermott looked great. What exactly should we complain about? He exceeded all expectations. Why should he have been more dominant? He was a second round pick who was 21. Babcock should have given him a bigger role this year. His overlying stats were great and better than some rookie Dmen already being on top 10 best DMen lists.

A Leaf fan pointed out Dermott's icetime and how rookies have to earn icetime under Babcock, as if Barzal and Pulock were somehow gifted their nhl icetime

 

[CodeE]

Barzal would either take Bozak's position as 3C between JVR & Brown/Johnsson/Kapanen (without Marner some winger moves up the lineup) or Marner's position as 2RW beside Kadri and Marleau. He would almost certainly take Marner's spot playing the right side on PP1.

He would lose about 1.5 mpg of ice time, depending on how long Babcock decides his demotion to the 4th line should be, based on that one time he turned the puck over. And he would no longer have as many opportunities for carry in zone entries because Babcock likes to run a failing stretch-pass breakout.

I'd expect he scores at about a Marner pace, regardless of whether he's better or not. The Leafs have had a top-5 offense in consecutive seasons without anyone breaking 70 pts, Barzal certainly wouldn't come in and score 85.

Barzal's a 3rd liner (and a 4th liner for as long as Babcock wants) at most, best case scenario he plays wing to Kadri.

The 85-point rookie pushing Nazem Kadri out of a #2C role is just an absurd and ridiculous thought, nope if Barzal was on your team he'd be a 4th liner.

Leaf fans show facts to back-up their opinions. Non-Leaf fans not so much.

I'm with ya non-Leaf fans can be a nightmare to deal with. Thinking Barzal can compare to Kadri

 

[LeafFever]

A Leaf fan pointed out Dermott's icetime and how rookies have to earn icetime under Babcock, as if Barzal and Pulock were somehow gifted their nhl icetime

Yes and Barzal and Pulock aren't coached by Babcock, are they? That was his point. Dermott is coached by Babcock.

 

[CREW99AW]

Yes and Barzal and Pulock aren't coached by Babcock, are they? That was his point. Dermott is coached by Babcock.

Barzal and Pulock wete coached by Weight, who demoted JHS because of his defense, despite JHS' productive 12 pts in 22 games on the 3rd line.

The argument pushed by Leaf fans is that Babcock demanded defensive responsibility from his prospects, but Weight did not is false.
If this was the case, Beau and JHS would not have been demoted last season.

 

[LeafFever]

Barzal and Pulock wete coached by Weight, who demoted JHS because of his defense, despite JHS' productive 12 pts in 22 games on the 3rd line.

The argument pushed by Leaf fans is that Babcock demanded defensive responsibility from his prospects, but Weight did not is false.
If this was the case, Beau and JHS would not have been demoted last season.

Islanders were the worst defensive team in the NHL.

 

[The Podium]

Barzal's a 3rd liner (and a 4th liner for as long as Babcock wants) at most, best case scenario he plays wing to Kadri.

The 85-point rookie pushing Nazem Kadri out of a #2C role is just an absurd and ridiculous thought, nope if Barzal was on your team he'd be a 4th liner.



I'm with ya non-Leaf fans can be a nightmare to deal with. Thinking Barzal can compare to Kadri

Marner was a 4th liner for stretches of the season despite leading our team in scoring and being our best player in the playoffs. Whether or not Barzal wouldve been in the same position is unknown, but Babcock refuses to acknowledge rookies/young players even if they have proven to be the best players on the team.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I'm not sure how many fans actually watch teams other than their own, but Barzal is a star. The numbers he just put up as a rookie are nothing short of spectacular. The notion that he would be a third line center on any NHL team other than the Pens are ridiculous.

 

[mja]

Leaf fans show facts to back-up their opinions. Non-Leaf fans not so much.
Place Marner on Arizona and you're all overrating him.

 

[22FUTON9]

He's really not and neither is Rantanen.
What did Leaf fans tell all of you early in the season and no one listened when there were threads asking if Marner is the nextt Yakupov? Leaf fans stated he needs more TOI and better linemates and you'll see what he can do. The second that occurs Marner was easily as good if not better than Barzal and Rantenan the rest of the season and continued it into the playoffs.
16:28 TOI and 69 points. That says it all. He spent time on the 4th line this season.

Just for the record I never said Rantanen is clearly better than Marner, they're absolutely close. But you're just being extremely bias if you think Marner is better than Barzal (or Eichel like some people are saying) Congrats to him for having such a strong second half I guess but it doesn't change the fact he didn't crack 70 points whereas Barzal scored 85 points as a rookie, the most since Malkin did back in 07. Rantanen and Barzal had identical point totals but I'll be the first to admit that Barzal clearly impacts the game more.

 

[vanarchy]

The fact that some people legitimately have Barzal outside of the top 5 after what we've seen is hilarious to me.

 

[MessierII]

I'm not sure how many fans actually watch teams other than their own, but Barzal is a star. The numbers he just put up as a rookie are nothing short of spectacular. The notion that he would be a third line center on any NHL team other than the Pens are ridiculous.

Sort of. It was also a perfect situation with the isles having a gaping hole at 2C and Doug Weights crazy run and gun system.

 

[mja]

The fact that some people legitimately have Barzal outside of the top 5 after what we've seen is hilarious to me.

Speaking as a Flyers fan, he was terrifying every time he was on the ice against the Flyers. Just an electric player. He's the only player picked after Provorov that I feel like I might have wished the Flyers had chosen instead.

 

[CodeE]

Sort of. It was also a perfect situation with the isles having a gaping hole at 2C and Doug Weights crazy run and gun system.

The whole "crazy run and gun system" narrative is just to discredit the seasons Barzal, Lee, and Bailey had. Apart from those three (and I guess Tavares), no other Islander forward had their stats inflated by Doug Weight's crazy system:

Eberle scored 59, above average season considering his last four with Edmonton (65, 63, 47, 51). Beau was 6th in scoring with 36 points (stapled to Barzal for good parts of the second half of the season). Most everyone else did worse than years previous:

1. Nelson had a down year at 35 (when he's gone over 40 the last three years).

2. Ladd scored less points than last year (despite being stapled to Barzal for good parts of the first half of the season).

3. Clutterbuck's 18 points are lower than 20 and 23 the two previous seasons.

4. Cizikas' 17 points are lower than 25 and 29 the previous two seasons.

5. Nobody else - Chimera, Wagner, Quine, Fritz, Johnston - did anything particularly impressive offensively in the bottom 6.

Why hasn't his "crazy run and gun system" shown an increase to all forwards as opposed to just Barzal, Bailey, and Lee?

 

[Riseonfire]

Speaking as a Flyers fan, he was terrifying every time he was on the ice against the Flyers. Just an electric player. He's the only player picked after Provorov that I feel like I might have wished the Flyers had chosen instead.

Other than McDavid, I don't prefer a single forward to Provorov other than Barzal. Provy is just so good, it sucks he's in the Metro.

 

[MessierII]

The whole "crazy run and gun system" narrative is just to discredit the seasons Barzal, Lee, and Bailey had. Apart from those three (and I guess Tavares), no other Islander forward had their stats inflated by Doug Weight's crazy system:

Eberle scored 59, above average season considering his last four with Edmonton (65, 63, 47, 51). Beau was 6th in scoring with 36 points (stapled to Barzal for good parts of the second half of the season). Most everyone else did worse than years previous:

1. Nelson had a down year at 35 (when he's gone over 40 the last three years).

2. Ladd scored less points than last year (despite being stapled to Barzal for good parts of the first half of the season).

3. Clutterbuck's 18 points are lower than 20 and 23 the two previous seasons.

4. Cizikas' 17 points are lower than 25 and 29 the previous two seasons.

5. Nobody else - Chimera, Wagner, Quine, Fritz, Johnston - did anything particularly impressive offensively in the bottom 6.

Why hasn't his "crazy run and gun system" shown an increase to all forwards as opposed to just Barzal, Bailey, and Lee?

It’s pretty simple. They scored the 8th most goals and gave up the most. That’s the definition of run and gun.

 

[Riseonfire]

It’s pretty simple. They scored the 8th most goals and gave up the most. That’s the definition of run and gun.