2015 NHL redraft

[93LEAFS]

I think you might have confused Jake DeBrusk with Sean Kuraly at some point...

I don't know what underlying numbers you are looking at but if you are talking about the 20 games DeBrusk has played in the NHL at this point DeBrusk, there is some room for clarification.

Out of training camp DeBrusk made the team as a 2nd liner with Krejci and Pastrnak. While still a rookie he still posted 4 points in 5 games before Krejci went down to injury. After that point he went on a 6 game pointless streak where he was being bounced down between the 3rd and 4th lines playing with guys who you could describe as 'hard workers' and 'grinders' and it ended up with him being scratched.

Since then, and since the return of David Krejci he has simply been a different player. The speed, sweet hands, offensive IQ and shot have been very evident over this four game winning streak where he has been put into the right role. I think now you are seeing more of the DeBrusk the Bruins had in mind when they drafted him in 2015 than when he was playing in a role he really isn't suited for.

I don't have any issue with your rankings per say, just curious how you came to that particular assessment of the player.

I've always seen him as a smart and hard working player, I've never thought he was that dynamic dating back to his time with Swift Current and Red Deer. He's more of a sum of his parts than a guy who depends on certain outstanding abilities. Similar to the Leafs own Connor Brown. Maybe, I should see him with Krejci, but in my viewings in both Leafs games and what else I've seen, I don't think he'll be a first line line-driver and if he is on the top line it will be in a pre-dominantly complimentary role, probably as the 3rd wheel.

Now, I'm not saying that is all he'll be, guys like Marchand have drastically over achieved what's expected of them. But, I do think its a bit ridiculous for that one poster to call out my rankings, not provide his own, and then claim DeBrusk will be a top 10 player in this draft class, when he's already dramatically behind quite a few people, and many others are battling for that top spot. As stated, he could easily move as high as 15 pretty quickly, and maybe challenge for top 10 over guys like Strome and Kaprizov by June. But, I have a hard time seeing him passing any of these people anytime soon in McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Provorov, Werenski, Rantanen, Hanifin, Kyle Connor, Barzal and Aho.

 

[DrJustice]

I've always seen him as a smart and hard working player, I've never thought he was that dynamic dating back to his time with Swift Current and Red Deer. He's more of a sum of his parts than a guy who depends on certain outstanding abilities. Similar to the Leafs own Connor Brown. Maybe, I should see him with Krejci, but in my viewings in both Leafs games and what else I've seen, I don't think he'll be a first line line-driver and if he is on the top line it will be in a pre-dominantly complimentary role, probably as the 3rd wheel.

Now, I'm not saying that is all he'll be, guys like Marchand have drastically over achieved what's expected of them. But, I do think its a bit ridiculous for that one poster to call out my rankings, not provide his own, and then claim DeBrusk will be a top 10 player in this draft class, when he's already dramatically behind quite a few people, and many others are battling for that top spot. As stated, he could easily move as high as 15 pretty quickly, and maybe challenge for top 10 over guys like Strome and Kaprizov by June. But, I have a hard time seeing him passing any of these people anytime soon in McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Provorov, Werenski, Rantanen, Hanifin, Kyle Connor, Barzal and Aho.

As I said before, I wasn't commenting on your ranking of DeBrusk or others because I understand you are ranking them based on what you think their upside is and not based on what on their current NHL totals are (specifically Strome and Kaprizov in this case) I was more so commenting on the assessment of DeBrusk's skillset and ceiling, which we obviously disagree on. I view him as having that first line upside based on the speed and skill which he has been displaying when put him into the correct role with the correct players to help bring out that offensive talent. He's not just feasting on Krejci's passing, he's getting other players the puck in the right places and is finishing when given the space. As you say he very well could end up as a middle-six player who is more complementary, but I think we are seeing the upside people thought he lacked in the last 5 games.

Big difference from what he was doing when he was playing with Schallar and Kuraly on the bottom line and our whole team is injured. I believe you will see a difference between when the Bruins and Leafs last played and the next time they play. You have always struck me as a well informed and good poster so I simply was just curious on your opinion more than wanting to bicker about rankings that are way too early anyways haha.

 

[IPS]

1) McDavid
2) Marner
3) Werenski
4) Eichel
5) Aho

 

[Dano85]

Am I crazy to think the Leafs would be better off with either Werenski or Provorov than with Marner?

 

[FlyTimmo]

1. McDavid
2. Eichel
3. Provorov
4. Werenski
5. Marner
6. Aho
7. Boeser
8. Rantanen
9. Hanifin
10. Barzal

HM: Strome, Chabot,

 

[M2Beezy]

1) McDavid
2) Marner
3) Werenski
4) Eichel
5) Aho

Aho too high

 

[Mick Riddleton]

1. McDavid
2. Eichel
3. Provorov
4. Werenski
5. Marner
6. Aho
7. Boeser
8. Rantanen
9. Hanifin
10. Barzal

HM: Strome, Chabot,

Why? they are in the AHL, Debrusk for one has 6 pts in his last 5 NHL games and 12 pts total, same totals as Connor and 7 more then Zacha, Strome cannot even make the Coyotes, makes you wonder

 

[00BW]

My 2015 redraft as of 2017-11-24
Sticking to NHL impact to date. Most of these players are still 20 so there is plenty of time for these guys to reshuffle and for current non-NHL players to enter the list. Just look at the impact Barzal has had in 22 games this year.


1) McDavid
2) Eichel
3) Werenski
4) Provorov
5) Hanifin
6) Barzal
7) Boeser
8) Aho
9) Marner
10) Rantanen
11) Carlo
12) DeBrusk
13) Connor
14) Konecny
15) Nutivaara
16) Zacha
17) Beauvilier
18) Dunn
19) Chabot
20) Eriksson Ek
21) Fischer
22) Meier
23) Mironov
24) Malgin
25) Crouse
26) Sprong

10 additional Forwards, 7 Defenseman, and 1 Goalie not listed that have played just a handful of games and are not worth ranking yet.

 

[DKH]

How many Jets, Tuscon(AHL), KHL, Belleville(AHL)/Sens, Flyers, Blues, Devils, KHL, Coyotes, and Isles games do you watch? I hope it's lots if you're going to infer that DeBrusk is better than a bunch of those guys and then claim others don't think so because they don't watch enough of the 1 guy you watch the most. I would be willing to bet that guy watches more Bruins games than you watches games of most the teams of those other guys.

I'll never get people picking out 1 guy from a list to complain about. If someone is going to make a list of 30 guys in order, it's inevitable that it's not going to be perfect. If someone makes a bad list with a bunch of errors then have at it. Complaining about a difference of opinion of 1 guy which you think is only marginally better than those aboive him(15-22 are all really close), if everyone came and complained about their 1 guy on every list there'd be hundreds of pages of *****ing in every single thread. And to claim the guy making the list doesn't watch enough to X player to have him below a bunch of players makes it that much funnier as nobody watches every game of every player. How about you make a list? I'm sure it would be worse than his list which is actually pretty good. And I had DeBrusk on 16 on my list. Marginal differences of opinion of 1 guy in a 30 player lists aren't worth complaining over.

I'm a Leafs old time fan going back to George Armstrong, Bobby Baun, Marcel Pronovost, and Dave Keon. I don't follow them as much as when my father was alive and I was regularly exposed to them - what's going on with Marner. Sophomore slump or just snake bit?

 

[DKH]

How many Jets, Tuscon(AHL), KHL, Belleville(AHL)/Sens, Flyers, Blues, Devils, KHL, Coyotes, and Isles games do you watch? I hope it's lots if you're going to infer that DeBrusk is better than a bunch of those guys and then claim others don't think so because they don't watch enough of the 1 guy you watch the most. I would be willing to bet that guy watches more Bruins games than you watches games of most the teams of those other guys.

I'll never get people picking out 1 guy from a list to complain about. If someone is going to make a list of 30 guys in order, it's inevitable that it's not going to be perfect. If someone makes a bad list with a bunch of errors then have at it. Complaining about a difference of opinion of 1 guy which you think is only marginally better than those aboive him(15-22 are all really close), if everyone came and complained about their 1 guy on every list there'd be hundreds of pages of *****ing in every single thread. And to claim the guy making the list doesn't watch enough to X player to have him below a bunch of players makes it that much funnier as nobody watches every game of every player. How about you make a list? I'm sure it would be worse than his list which is actually pretty good. And I had DeBrusk on 16 on my list. Marginal differences of opinion of 1 guy in a 30 player lists aren't worth complaining over.

I'm a Leafs old time fan going back to George Armstrong, Bobby Baun, Marcel Pronovost, and Dave Keon. I don't follow them as much as when my father was alive and I was regularly exposed to them - what's going on with Marner. Sophomore slump or just snake bit?

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Hey guys with the way that some of the players from the 2015 draft class have preformed early on (Barzal, Boeser ect ect) i figured it would be a good time to revisit the draft and see how the rankings would have potentially changed. Here are my rankings.

1) McDavid
2) Eichel
3) Werenski
4) Marner
5) Barzal
6) Boeser
7) Rantanen
8) Hanifin
9) Aho
10) Provorov
11) Chabot
12) Connor
13) Strome
14) Debrusk
15) Roslovic
HM) Konecny

I only did 15 due to fact of limited NHL experience of most players in the draft class. Curious to see what other peoples rankings and opinions are.

Provorov moves up, not down

1) McDavid
2) Eichel
3) Provorov
4) Werenski
5) Marner
6) Boeser
7) Barzal
8) Rantanen
9) Hanifin
I0) Aho

 

[HyPnOtiK]

I'm not sure about Marner at 5. And I think we can safely put Werenski ahead of Provorov for now. After the first 4 you have Marner/Aho/Rantanen who are all quite close. Then Hanifin at 8. After that it's too early to tell, but Barzal is the frontrunner from the next group of players.

We can safely put Provorov above Werenski

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Huh?

Werenski since the start of the 2016/17 season has played 101 games, has 32 points, 21 primary points, and 12 goals at ES. Provorov in that time frame has played 105 games, has 29 points, 21 primary points, and 10 goals. If you limit it to 5v5, they have the same amount of goals, Werenski has 1 more point and Provorov has 1 more primary point. Werenski also wins in rate metrics such as P/60.

I have no problem with people choosing Provorov by the eye-test, but their even-strength/5v5 numbers are close, with Jones killing things like xGF and possession metrics.

Fixed it for you.

Provorov outscores Werenski ES with tougher minutes and a much worse pair partner.

Defensively they're not close

 

[Maple Leaf]

Am I crazy to think the Leafs would be better off with either Werenski or Provorov than with Marner?

True but you can say that about anything

 

[Tripod]

Am I crazy to think the Leafs would be better off with either Werenski or Provorov than with Marner?

No....but Marner will still be a great player.

 

[Standardly]

leaf fan here but i have to say i don't think marner is in the top 5 here and I don't think he will be. Boeser and Barzal have been way too dominant. Close to ppg right now. Yes, marner got 60 pts last year but that's a far cry from ppg. Barzal and Boeser both look dominant. Then you have werenski and provorov. Marner at #6 at the very best.

 

[boredmale]

leaf fan here but i have to say i don't think marner is in the top 5 here and I don't think he will be. Boeser and Barzal have been way too dominant. Close to ppg right now. Yes, marner got 60 pts last year but that's a far cry from ppg. Barzal and Boeser both look dominant. Then you have werenski and provorov. Marner at #6 at the very best.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, (I say this as an Islanders fan) but it's to early to judge both based on 23 games. I would still rate Marner over both guys in a redraft until both at least play one full season or Marner really craps the bed

 

[wintersej]

I got mine from Corsica, which I find to generally be better than NHL.com. So, I don't know why there is such a discrepancy.

I wouldn't say Provorov is known as defence first, but more of a 2-way guy than Werenski. The big thing is, they are quite far apart in regards to underlying numbers, which I would say for some makes people think there is a big gap.

Playing with Jones helps, but his most successful period of last year was arguably the time-frame Jones was hurt, and which is what cemented him in the top pairing.

I believe NHL includes 6 on 5, 3 on 3, and 4 on 4 as ES while Corsica is looking at 5 on 5 exclusively.

 

[93LEAFS]

I believe NHL includes 6 on 5, 3 on 3, and 4 on 4 as ES while Corsica is looking at 5 on 5 exclusively.

I was using Corsica's ES numbers which is a separate option than 5v5. But, empty net situations could be the discrepancy.

 

[96]

leaf fan here but i have to say i don't think marner is in the top 5 here and I don't think he will be. Boeser and Barzal have been way too dominant. Close to ppg right now. Yes, marner got 60 pts last year but that's a far cry from ppg. Barzal and Boeser both look dominant. Then you have werenski and provorov. Marner at #6 at the very best.

Marner had 19 points in his first 20 NHL games.

 

[Tripod]

Most teams are quite happy with who they got I assume. Lots of talent to choose from.

 

[joe dirte]

McD
werenski
marner
provorov
eichel
Barzal
boeser
rantanen
aho
hanifin

 

[joe dirte]

Most teams are quite happy with who they got I assume. Lots of talent to choose from.

yeah hell of a draft. lots of good players

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Don't look now, but Hanifin has 5 points in his last 5 games. 3 goals in his last 7.
Connor is coming off a 3 point night with 7 goals and 8 assists in 19 games.
Barzal keeps up chugging with a PPG pace with 24 points in 24 games.

These guys are particularly looking good this year if there was a redraft of 2015.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Am I crazy to think the Leafs would be better off with either Werenski or Provorov than with Marner?

Why on Earth would they take Marner over Werenski and Provorov?