2015 NHL redraft

[Canada4Gold]

Because of my Irish/English heritage I don't do particularly well in Dick measuring contests. I'm going to give all these players more time.

Hockey may be my third spore but when the 2015 redraft has actual meat to it you will find Jake DeBrusk in the top 10.

So I take it you haven't watched much of those other players then so you don't know enough about them to compare them to DeBrusk but you were ok criticizing that other guy about not watching enough of DeBrusk to make a fair comparison.

This isn't about where DeBrusk would end up, I don't care if he ends up being the best player since Wayne Gretzky. This is about you criticizing that other poster for something you haven't even done yourself. It's hypocritical.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

McDavid
Eichel
Werenski
Provorov
Barzal
Rantanen
Aho
Hanifin
Connor
Marner
Boeser

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Hey guys with the way that some of the players from the 2015 draft class have preformed early on (Barzal, Boeser ect ect) i figured it would be a good time to revisit the draft and see how the rankings would have potentially changed. Here are my rankings.

1) McDavid
2) Eichel
3) Werenski
4) Marner
5) Barzal
6) Boeser
7) Rantanen
8) Hanifin
9) Aho
10) Provorov
11) Chabot
12) Connor
13) Strome
14) Debrusk
15) Roslovic
HM) Konecny

I only did 15 due to fact of limited NHL experience of most players in the draft class. Curious to see what other peoples rankings and opinions are.

Provorov should be WAY Higher!

 

[ChiefWiggum]

1) McDavid
2) Eichel
3) Werenski
4) Provorov
5) Marner
6) Boeser
7) Barzal
8) Aho
9) Chabot
10) Hanifan

 

[CBJx614]

Looks like the Jets really feasted in 2015...

Connor (NHL: 16 games, 11 points)
Roslovic (AHL: 19 games, 21 points)
Foley (NCAA: 10 games, 12 points)
Appleton (AHL: 19 games, 16 points)
Niku D (AHL: 19 games, 10 points)

The jackets completely restocked their D corps with this one draft.

Werenski and Nuttivara were nhl ready last season
Carlsson made the team out of camp this season only to be sent down after an injury which allowed Nuttivara to take his spot back and already put up career highs in points.

And Gavrikov, who would have been able to compete for a top 4 spot on the team, only stayed in Russia because of the Olympics..

And then you have a kid like Stenlund who is playing extremely well as a young kid in the DHL, coming over next season to likely compete for a bottom 6 role.

 

[Tripod]

Disagree on the bolded, Provorov is better in his own end from what I've seen and his offensive game is coming along very nicely

Provorov is 6th in ES scoring for Dmen this year and 16th for the last 2 years combined. His offense is under rated because he does not get the #1 PP unit icetime....Ghost does.

And given that Ghost is tied for 1st in PP points this year and 3rd fir the last 2 years combined, that isn't likely to change.

If Werenski was on the Flyers, he would not be on that unit either and his points would suffer.

But for sure. Provy is known for his defense yet out produces most Dmen at ES....and doesn't play in a high scoring team either.

 

[Territory]

not that im an expert at everyone else, but i find it hard to believe that barzal should not be consensus top 5 with how good he has been--this is a great draft, but barzal has arguably been the isles best player this year

Sample size. Same reason Boeser isn't higher too. If you took Marners best 20 game stretch last season he'd look better than Eichel. But you can't do that, and Boeser and Barzal have to show they can do it over a full season and more.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

My Top 5

1. McDavid
2. Eichel
3. Barzal
4. Provorov
5. Werenksi

HM

6. Rantanen
7. Boeser

Overall this is one of my favourite drafts, very deep in quality. But I think the top 5 are a bit more special than the rest.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Hanifin not in my top 10

Saw Hanifin play last night. He was terrific. 1+1, 2 pts.I tell you, people that thought he was not that good as a rookie are going to be in for a surprise. He was the consensus #3 this draft pretty much all year. He's going to be a heck of a D man. As with most D men, you do not know for a few years after the draft. But I always said this, when discussing this draft. The separation of margins from Provorov, Werenski, and Hanifin were paper thin. It all depends on what type of D man a team prefers. I can see Hanifin being one of those players. People just do not see him enough in a small market. Quality D men are scarce and hard to find. Carolina made a very good pick here and one can even say they got value at #5.

 

[Cowumbus]

Provorov and Werenski are side by side. you can debate who you prefer more, but they are super close. having them 7 ranks apart is ridiculous. one is not that much better than the other.

Werenski is slightly better. It can be seen by the eye test, his PPG and his Corsi.

 

[Tripod]

Werenski is slightly better. It can be seen by the eye test, his PPG and his Corsi.

So how does Provorov out produce Werenski at ES?

Provorov gets to lug around AMac and now Hagg on a mediocre team with a bad coach. Werenski gets Jones as his partner on a good team with a coach who WANTS Werenski to be a rover.

Must be nice.

 

[Ainec]

Saw Hanifin play last night. He was terrific. 1+1, 2 pts.I tell you, people that thought he was not that good as a rookie are going to be in for a surprise. He was the consensus #3 this draft pretty much all year. He's going to be a heck of a D man. As with most D men, you do not know for a few years after the draft. But I always said this, when discussing this draft. The separation of margins from Provorov, Werenski, and Hanifin were paper thin. It all depends on what type of D man a team prefers. I can see Hanifin being one of those players. People just do not see him enough in a small market. Quality D men are scarce and hard to find. Carolina made a very good pick here and one can even say they got value at #5.

Nothing wrong with that pick at all, top 20 in one of the deeper draft amongst 200+ players isn't shabby

He could definitely move up

 

[M2Beezy]

1 Mcdavid
2 Jeichel
3 Rantanen
4 Marner
5 Werenski
6 Barzal
7 Boeser
8 Provorov
9 Hanifin
10 Aho
11 Chabot
12 Carlo
13 Strome
14 Konecny
15 Zacha
16 Debrusk
17 Beaviller
18 Samsanov
19 Fisher
20 White
21 Gaudette
22 Meier
23 Connor
24 Kaprizov
25 Eriksson Ek
26 Zboril
27 Carlsson
28 Sprong
29 Gabrielle
30 Larson

 

[HaNotsri]

What a great draft so far, I’m not even sure Eichel will stay at second place until the end of his career.
And as good as Marner has been, you can have a discussion about that third place already.

 

[93LEAFS]

So how does Provorov out produce Werenski at ES?

Provorov gets to lug around AMac and now Hagg on a mediocre team with a bad coach. Werenski gets Jones as his partner on a good team with a coach who WANTS Werenski to be a rover.

Must be nice.

Huh?

Werenski since the start of the 2016/17 season has played 101 games, has 32 points, 21 primary points, and 12 goals at ES. Provorov in that time frame has played 105 games, has 29 points, 21 primary points, and 10 goals. If you limit it to 5v5, they have the same amount of goals, Werenski has 1 more point and Provorov has 1 more primary point. Werenski also wins in rate metrics such as P/60.

I have no problem with people choosing Provorov by the eye-test, but their even-strength/5v5 numbers are close, with Werenski killing things like xGF and possession metrics.

 

[joe dirte]

Saw Hanifin play last night. He was terrific. 1+1, 2 pts.I tell you, people that thought he was not that good as a rookie are going to be in for a surprise. He was the consensus #3 this draft pretty much all year. He's going to be a heck of a D man. As with most D men, you do not know for a few years after the draft. But I always said this, when discussing this draft. The separation of margins from Provorov, Werenski, and Hanifin were paper thin. It all depends on what type of D man a team prefers. I can see Hanifin being one of those players. People just do not see him enough in a small market. Quality D men are scarce and hard to find. Carolina made a very good pick here and one can even say they got value at #5.

oh you were watching the game? did you hear them talking about Morgan Rielly for Norris consideration? that was an interesting discussion.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

McDavid
Eichel
Werenski
Marner
Provorov

Lots of quality players in this draft.

 

[96]

LMFAO @ Leafs homers in this thread who think Marner is 2nd OA.

Wtf. Literally one person did that and I'm pretty sure it was a joke, however this post gets so many likes. We own the NHL, we own HF, keep hating.

 

[Tripod]

Huh?

Werenski since the start of the 2016/17 season has played 101 games, has 32 points, 21 primary points, and 12 goals at ES. Provorov in that time frame has played 105 games, has 29 points, 21 primary points, and 10 goals. If you limit it to 5v5, they have the same amount of goals, Werenski has 1 more point and Provorov has 1 more primary point. Werenski also wins in rate metrics such as P/60.

I have no problem with people choosing Provorov by the eye-test, but their even-strength/5v5 numbers are close, with Werenski killing things like xGF and possession metrics.

Not sure where you got your numbers, here is what I was referring to:

NHL.com - Stats

Provy 36 ES points
Werenski 35 ES points

And as I said, do you think Jones as Werenski helps? Or playing on a team that scores more?

If You look thru my past history, I have said that I have no issue if someone picks Werenski over Provy...as long as Provy is the next guy. They can be swapped back and forth, it's when people say there is a clear Werenski > Provy that I have the issue with.

Provy is known for his defense first yet produces as well as Werenski at ES on a lesser scoring team with a D partner that should be a #6/7. Provy's offense is underrated....or actually is not really known because most people just look at overall points.

Offensively right now, all we can say is that Werenski is better on CBus's #1 PP than Provy is on the Flyers #2 unit. At ES they are a wash.

 

[Wendelstache]

1)McDavid
2)Strome - Look at those AHL numbers
3)Eichel
4)Provorov
5)Marner
6)Werenski
7)Aho
8)Boeser
9)Barzal
10)Rantanen
11)Hanifin

 

[93LEAFS]

Not sure where you got your numbers, here is what I was referring to:

NHL.com - Stats

Provy 36 ES points
Werenski 35 ES points

And as I said, do you think Jones as Werenski helps? Or playing on a team that scores more?

If You look thru my past history, I have said that I have no issue if someone picks Werenski over Provy...as long as Provy is the next guy. They can be swapped back and forth, it's when people say there is a clear Werenski > Provy that I have the issue with.

Provy is known for his defense first yet produces as well as Werenski at ES on a lesser scoring team with a D partner that should be a #6/7. Provy's offense is underrated....or actually is not really known because most people just look at overall points.

Offensively right now, all we can say is that Werenski is better on CBus's #1 PP than Provy is on the Flyers #2 unit. At ES they are a wash.

I got mine from Corsica, which I find to generally be better than NHL.com. So, I don't know why there is such a discrepancy.

I wouldn't say Provorov is known as defence first, but more of a 2-way guy than Werenski. The big thing is, they are quite far apart in regards to underlying numbers, which I would say for some makes people think there is a big gap.

Playing with Jones helps, but his most successful period of last year was arguably the time-frame Jones was hurt, and which is what cemented him in the top pairing.

 

[MattMartin]

Based on what we have seen so far, and how I think they will turn out.

1. McDavid
2. Marner
3. Eichel
4. Provorov
5. Werenski
6. Hanifin
7. Boeser
8. Rantanen
9. Chabot
T10. Aho
T10. Connor

1. Kaprizov
2. Dunn
3. Eichel
4. Marner
5. Provorov
6. McDavid
7. Aho
8. Rantanen
9. Werenski
10. Boeser
11. Chabot
12. Strome
13. Barzal

No Barzal and Barzal last., good lists.

 

[DrJustice]

Which ones specifically. I don't see DeBrusk becoming more than a middle sixer. He works hard and grinds it out, but most of the other guys I see having top-line upside still (such as Strome and Kaprizov). How much of those guys have you seen?

Debrusk's underlying numbers also aren't very strong. He's getting killed relative in possession and xGF stats. Past 15 to around where Debrusk is, its pretty close.

I think you might have confused Jake DeBrusk with Sean Kuraly at some point...

I don't know what underlying numbers you are looking at but if you are talking about the 20 games DeBrusk has played in the NHL at this point DeBrusk, there is some room for clarification.

Out of training camp DeBrusk made the team as a 2nd liner with Krejci and Pastrnak. While still a rookie he still posted 4 points in 5 games before Krejci went down to injury. After that point he went on a 6 game pointless streak where he was being bounced down between the 3rd and 4th lines playing with guys who you could describe as 'hard workers' and 'grinders' and it ended up with him being scratched.

Since then, and since the return of David Krejci he has simply been a different player. The speed, sweet hands, offensive IQ and shot have been very evident over this four game winning streak where he has been put into the right role. I think now you are seeing more of the DeBrusk the Bruins had in mind when they drafted him in 2015 than when he was playing in a role he really isn't suited for.

I don't have any issue with your rankings per say, just curious how you came to that particular assessment of the player.

 

[gumgum]

I think you might have confused Jake DeBrusk with Sean Kuraly at some point...

I don't know what underlying numbers you are looking at but if you are talking about the 20 games DeBrusk has played in the NHL at this point DeBrusk, there is some room for clarification.

Out of training camp DeBrusk made the team as a 2nd liner with Krejci and Pastrnak. While still a rookie he still posted 4 points in 5 games before Krejci went down to injury. After that point he went on a 6 game pointless streak where he was being bounced down between the 3rd and 4th lines playing with guys who you could describe as 'hard workers' and 'grinders' and it ended up with him being scratched.

Since then, and since the return of David Krejci he has simply been a different player. The speed, sweet hands, offensive IQ and shot have been very evident over this four game winning streak where he has been put into the right role. I think now you are seeing more of the DeBrusk the Bruins had in mind when they drafted him in 2015 than when he was playing in a role he really isn't suited for.

I don't have any issue with your rankings per say, just curious how you came to that particular assessment of the player.

debrusk has pretty high level puck skills, but it should be noted that krejci's value has been understated for all of his career pretty much. he is the man that made milan lucic look like wayne simmonds.

 

[DrJustice]

debrusk has pretty high level puck skills, but it should be noted that krejci's value has been understated for all of his career pretty much. he is the man that made milan lucic look like wayne simmonds.

Lucic actually fits the role of a guy who is a hard worker and grinder that can still stick in the top-6 way more then DeBrusk.

And Krejci is a big part of that but this is the role DeBrusk was supposed to play in from the very beginning.