2015 NHL Entry Draft Discussion - April 2015 Post Season

[theIceWookie]

From my viewings, Marner is more dynamic. He does things with and without the puck at high speed - being very aggressive in both ends of the ice. It may just be these playoffs, but Strome has seemed to avoid the high traffic areas and physical side more than I expected. That being said, the possibility of a 6'3 center who won the scoring race in his draft year cannot be overlooked. He has been the guy I was hoping the Leafs would target and would be available at their pick. Having not seen others, it is tough to say for sure for me.
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The bolded is exactly the concerns I've been talking about for a while now with Strome. And he's been a total non-factor in the London series so far. I've long mentioned I question his top end compete level, and the playoffs aren't really answering those questions in the way I'd like, so far 3 of his 9 points have come in one game, a game that was a total blowout. Now granted, he does have an OT winner in one of the close games in the Sarnia series, but I still have my concerns.

At this point though, I won't be disappointed in the least if we get Strome, I guess I'm just more analysing his weaknesses as I see them. We know his strengths at this point.

 

[timlap]

The bolded is exactly the concerns I've been talking about for a while now with Strome. And he's been a total non-factor in the London series so far. I've long mentioned I question his top end compete level, and the playoffs aren't really answering those questions in the way I'd like, so far 3 of his 9 points have come in one game, a game that was a total blowout. Now granted, he does have an OT winner in one of the close games in the Sarnia series, but I still have my concerns.

At this point though, I won't be disappointed in the least if we get Strome, I guess I'm just more analysing his weaknesses as I see them. We know his strengths at this point.

I don't mind criticism of Strome, so I'm not really arguing, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

In game 1 of the London series I thought he was a strong contributor. I was really struck by his intelligent decisions in distributing the puck. He often held the puck for no more than a second or two and then made a deft pass to a teammate. It's not that they all led to scoring chances, but he consistently improved the play to his team's advantage. He seems to have both the willingness and intelligence to make non-flashy plays that benefit his team. Although I have been at a stalemate with Strome and Marner, this game was making me more comfortable with the idea of putting Strome ahead by a nose.

A very small nose, though.

I didn't see games 2 and 3 so I can't comment on those. But I disagree with the idea that he's been "a total non-factor," based on game 1.

(To be clear, Marner continued to impress me in game 1 as well, both for flashy and not so flashy stuff).

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Tis the season to over-analyze. We've watched these kids under a microscope for a long time. We're picking scraps off the bone, at this point.

 

[93gilmour93]

I don't know why and I'm sure its just wishful thinking but I just feel the leafs win the lottery this Saturday.

 

[Drew311]

It was up in the air a month ago between Strome and Marner. Now I want Strome 100%.

Build this team big up the middle. I know Marner can play centre, but I believe he'll settle in as a winger in the NHL. Similar to Nylander.

 

[theIceWookie]

Tis the season to over-analyze. We've watched these kids under a microscope for a long time. We're picking scraps off the bone, at this point.

I think its just that where we are, the players are so close that the only thing we have to try and possibly distinguish between them is very small downsides.

I'll fully admit I'm totally talking about a criticism I don't think is an entirely huge deal.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Can you imagine Cherry's rant if the leafs took someone like provorov or Hanifin over the two local leaf fans!

...Who cares?

I agree, lol.

I actually think Grapes has an extremely valid point. That's why I'm pretty torn between Strome and Hanifin. I think Hanifin is the bpa, but Strome fits a need better and is a local boy hardcore Leafs fan...if Marner goes 3rd and we have to decide between Strome and Hanifin man that is a difficult decision.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

...Who cares?

Actually, it would be an interesting rant. After all, he did say his buddy, Mark Hunter, would turn this franchise around. Wonder what he would say if Hunter were to select a Russian. Instead of the slagging he did to Nylander, I bet he just tries to avoid the topic. Can't be slagging his buddy Hunter now can he? However, I believe we will be picking either Strome or Marner.

 

[Sundinisagod]

People don't talk about Provorov much, but the Leafs have scouted him extensively.

If we're gonna talk about Provorov, we should also be comparing him to Werenski, the way we are Strome vs Marner. Werenski has some advantages as a prospect, he is 6'2" and an extremely good skater, has a cannon of a shot, and is one of the youngest eligibles in the 1st round. He also had an impressive offensive season for a rookie defender in the NCAA. His defensive game is less polished than Provorov, and he's not as far a long in his development...but he may have more upside while I think Provorov is a slightly safer pick. I don't know which one is ultimately the better prospect, but I do believe they are neck and neck...just like Strome and Marner.

With Hunter having drafted Werenski to London, that means that we know the Leafs have scouted him extensively as well. I would presume we've got the budget to scout all the top prospects extensively. I'm really curious as to what makes you single out Provorov as being scouted "extensively"?

 

[theIceWookie]

I actually think Grapes has an extremely valid point. That's why I'm pretty torn between Strome and Hanifin. I think Hanifin is the bpa, but Strome fits a need better and is a local boy hardcore Leafs fan...if Marner goes 3rd and we have to decide between Strome and Hanifin man that is a difficult decision.

Ok, I'll bite. What added value does a player with hometown roots bring?

 

[Sundinisagod]

Nothing against Provorov, I like the kid, but he is the wrong choice for the current state of this franchise. Morgan Rielly looks like he has elite #1 D talent and has been developing well, so you have to take that into account IMO. On the other hard, we lack a true top line C prospect, and even with Nylander being moved back to C next year, we need all the help we can get there.

It's also easier to turn a later 1st/2nd round pick into a top D than it is to turn it into a top C.

Top-pairing definitely.

#1 Elite D - I'm not convinced..

He has the potential to become one, but it's unlikely he turns into a handful of elite defensemen in this league. The whole point of drafting is selecting the best player on the board, if the Leafs management decide it's Provorov.. then that's the guy we go with.

Historically it's easier to turn a later 1st/2nd round pick into a top D, however, we have not historically reaped the rewards of this placement.

To me, Rielly is a lock to become a top pairing defender, and a strong possibility to become a #1. But either way, he's going to need a top pairing defender to play with, and all the guys in our system project as mid to bottom pairing guys...definitely a huge void on D as well. Our team could use any of Hanifin, Provorov, or Werenski...and I pray for J Roy with our second 1st.

All of Hanifin, Werenski, and Provorov actually have less question marks than Strome and Marner, and they appear to have similar upside as well...so there is a strong chance our scouts will view them as bpa come draft day...too bad not local boys though.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Ok, I'll bite. What added value does a player with hometown roots bring?

Nothing.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Ok, I'll bite. What added value does a player with hometown roots bring?

That certain something that Doug Gilmour had, and guys like Phaneuf and Kessel clearly don't. He played his best hockey as a Leaf, there must be something to that.

 

[ACC1224]

That certain something that Doug Gilmour had, and guys like Phaneuf and Kessel clearly don't. He played his best hockey as a Leaf, there must be something to that.

Gilmour is from Kingston.

 

[McMatthews]

Gilmour is from Kingston.

David Clarkson is from Mimico.

Larry Murphy is from Scarborough.

 

[theIceWookie]

That certain something that Doug Gilmour had, and guys like Phaneuf and Kessel clearly don't. He played his best hockey as a Leaf, there must be something to that.

So Toews would somehow be a better player if he was playing for Winnipeg?

Sorry but I don't buy this idea that playing in your hometown (or somewhat near it, Gilmour was like 2 and a half hours away from Toronto, it's a stretch to say he's a hometown boy) somehow adds some magical extra effort or talent or value to you as a player. Some players just have that drive to fight in every game, and others don't. Gilmour would have been the same player that he was in Toronto no matter where he went. He's not changing as a player simply because he can play somewhat near his home. That notion is simply asinine.

Your evidence is circumstantial at best (and it's very weak circumstantial evidence), and confirmation bias through and through.

 

[613Leafer]

That certain something that Doug Gilmour had, and guys like Phaneuf and Kessel clearly don't. He played his best hockey as a Leaf, there must be something to that.

Clarkson is from the GTA. He sucked here.

I doubt Lidstrom/Zetterberg grew up as diehard Red Wings fans. I dont think Kopitar/Dougty were Kings fans. Etc.

Take the BPA. Being a fan of the team? IMO thats so far down the list of priorities that its essentially inconsequential. Raw skillset/potential, and then work ethic, intelligence, leadership, etc would be far far more important factors for me.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Clarkson is from the GTA. He sucked here.

I doubt Lidstrom/Zetterberg grew up as diehard Red Wings fans. I dont think Kopitar/Dougty were Kings fans. Etc.

Take the BPA. Being a fan of the team? IMO thats so far down the list of priorities that its essentially inconsequential. Raw skillset/potential, and then work ethic, intelligence, leadership, etc would be far far more important factors for me.

Doughty funny enough was a Kings fan.

Duchene was a Colorado fan

 

[McMatthews]

Doughty funny enough was a Kings fan.

Duchene was a Colorado fan

Ovechkin was a Leafs fan.

Source: TSN interview from 2003.

 

[613Leafer]

Doughty funny enough was a Kings fan.

Duchene was a Colorado fan

Lol, fair enough. You get what I mean though. Clearly teams win, and do so very often, with core players who didnt grow up as diehard fans of that team.

We want players who are incredibly dedicated individuals who will put in top efforts on/off the ice, who are incredibly competitive, etc. People with this mentality dont need to have been fans of the team growing up to try hard and do well.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't mind criticism of Strome, so I'm not really arguing, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

In game 1 of the London series I thought he was a strong contributor. I was really struck by his intelligent decisions in distributing the puck. He often held the puck for no more than a second or two and then made a deft pass to a teammate. It's not that they all led to scoring chances, but he consistently improved the play to his team's advantage. He seems to have both the willingness and intelligence to make non-flashy plays that benefit his team. Although I have been at a stalemate with Strome and Marner, this game was making me more comfortable with the idea of putting Strome ahead by a nose.

A very small nose, though.

I didn't see games 2 and 3 so I can't comment on those. But I disagree with the idea that he's been "a total non-factor," based on game 1.

(To be clear, Marner continued to impress me in game 1 as well, both for flashy and not so flashy stuff).

With Marner out he cannot look better than Strome, and as the playoffs move along it doesn't get easier.

Perhaps being out will keep him in the top 5, whereas if he played and faced tougher competition he could possibly drop.

Or they've already scouted these guys for a full season, and ISS and Central scouting already have them ranked.

 

[ULF_55]

Lol, fair enough. You get what I mean though. Clearly teams win, and do so very often, with core players who didnt grow up as diehard fans of that team.

We want players who are incredibly dedicated individuals who will put in top efforts on/off the ice, who are incredibly competitive, etc. People with this mentality dont need to have been fans of the team growing up to try hard and do well.

Yes, part of this scouting should be to look at how these kids approach the game off and on the ice.

Leafs don't need to add more character issues into their future.

 

[Teeder9]

So Toews would somehow be a better player if he was playing for Winnipeg?

Sorry but I don't buy this idea that playing in your hometown (or somewhat near it, Gilmour was like 2 and a half hours away from Toronto, it's a stretch to say he's a hometown boy) somehow adds some magical extra effort or talent or value to you as a player. Some players just have that drive to fight in every game, and others don't. Gilmour would have been the same player that he was in Toronto no matter where he went. He's not changing as a player simply because he can play somewhat near his home. That notion is simply asinine.

Your evidence is circumstantial at best (and it's very weak circumstantial evidence), and confirmation bias through and through.

A very extreme case at that. It's very easy to change alliances once there is something to gain or lose. First and foremost athletes just want to win, with the odd exception only caring about how much money they can make

 

[timlap]

Tis the season to over-analyze. We've watched these kids under a microscope for a long time. We're picking scraps off the bone, at this point.

I think you're right. And I expect it's only going to get worse between now and the draft, given that we have a couple of months to wait.

 

[Semantics]

Strome does seem like a strong offensive player with size and is quite effective in the offensive zone. Once he's ready for the AHL, we'd have to develop his two-way game if he want him to be more versatile.

Strome is likely not going to play a single AHL game in his life.