WC: 2015 — Team Finland

[Uncle Scrooge]

He doesn't want to hurt their self confidence because it's not like he has better options waiting in the wings, he can't just put them on pop corn duty. He picked these players to the team despite especially one of them underperforming the entire season and placed them in key roles. There's no way he will ever admit it was a mistake, and even less so during the tournament.

Agreed.

And to be honest, they have to play together. We can always try to mix things up but i doubt the chemistry would be there if we have Kontiola playing with couple grinders or Aaltonen without offensive support.

Just have to hope and pray these guys get it going. But let's be real, even if they start playing like they can i doubt they'll get much done against Canada or Sweden. And that's why we aren't favorites.

 

[SoupyFIN]

The line juggling at the end was odd. First Konna's line has multiple terrible games, KJ doesn't chance a thing. Then they have a decent game (although against a really weak opponent) and KJ goes for the switch.

 

[Periwinkle]

On the whole I found the game quite depressing. It's nice that games don't end in a slaughter, but the lack of finishing was painful to watch, again.

Aaltonen seems useless, if he can't stickhandle himself around Slovenian defense what is he going to be good for against better opponents other than become a turnover machine? Kontiola seemed a little better, but hardly dangerous.

 

[Mestaruus]

The line juggling at the end was odd. First Konna's line has multiple terrible games, KJ doesn't chance a thing. Then they have a decent game (although against a really weak opponent) and KJ goes for the switch.

I was wondering the same thing. Why change it now against this particular opponent. Breaking Aaltonen-Konna though is a good start and I hope KJ keeps experimenting this in the next game.

Next step would be to put Donskoi-Kemppainen together. I wonder if Marjamäki has had any say in the way KJ is keeping them separated or is KJ so stubborn he doesn't listen to the guy who coached them all season long. Only logic I see here is that KJ knows Donskoi's & Kemppainen's chemistry is so good that he doesn't need to put them together right away, because last 3 games have been vs weaker opponents, so maybe he was using these games to experiment still if there can be even better combination. Next 3 opponents are much stronger and if he doesn't put them together then, this theory is wrong and it probably is wrong. Wishul thinking... KJ is just setting himself to be blamed if we get a QF exit, almost every Finnish person wants Donskoi and Kemppainen together.

I also think Hytönen should play instead of Immonen. Though this one is rather close. Hytönen to me is more visible and energic player while Immonen is solid, but slower skater. Hytönen takes more penalties, but I'd go with Hytönen for now.

 

[FiLe]

The line juggling at the end was odd. First Konna's line has multiple terrible games, KJ doesn't chance a thing. Then they have a decent game (although against a really weak opponent) and KJ goes for the switch.

That got me too. Was the idea to try and put some spark on Kontiola by giving him an energy player that was more energetic than his current one, or reward Kemppainen by letting him play with another skill guy?

If so or either, I might almost say it was a born failure on both counts.

---

As far as line juggling goes, I think KJ doesn't want to break up the 2nd line because it's only unit that makes something happen in every shift. So he's gonna try every other thing first before touching up that one. And perhaps it's less about his willingness to move Donskoi away than him having no clue who to place there in his stead.

As far as our 1st goes... I'm thinking maybe the issue isn't Konna & JMA, but Ruutu. I mean, the two artistic souls do know each other and more or less know where the other one is at all times. But Rudy is not on the same page with them.

So, rolling the wheel again...

Komarov-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Jokinen-Barkov-Donskoi
Pihlström-Immonen-Ruutu
Pesonen-Kemppainen-Hartikainen

Give the artist couple a more energetic third wheel, keep the 2nd line as it is (since that is what the coach clearly wants), and well... just try something new with Kemppainen - and finally, well... since both Immonen and Ruutu look slow but strong, see if they could hit it off.

 

[MMANumminen]

Yes, I agree! It is Ruutu that is holding the line down. He should play with less minutes in 3rd or 4th line.

Same with Jokinen but Barkov and Donskoi are so good so they keep him productive.

Jokinen is searching for highlight reel assists all the time but can't execute. So many giveaways it is frustrating to watch. He can finish though which is good thing.

 

[rduck1]

Three shutouts in four games.
Fewest goals conceded.
Fewest penalties taken.
Perfect penalty kill.
Fourth-best power-play.

I'm okay with this.

 

[kelsier]

We were watching yesterday's game with a friend and suddenly he asks, where's Ristolainen? Now I hadn't been reading any tabloits and I'm not that much into WC anymore as I used to be, partly because of seeing the same old faces each year, coaches, team full of grinders and mediocore success (yeah gold at 2011 & silver 2014 are still nice). I guess I'm a bit more like average Canadian who rather watches U18 & U20 championships. Anyway, we knew Buffalo was out and started googling and both were absolutely stunned to find out RR did NOT make the team. On what world is that even possible. Ristolainen played #1 D role in Buffalo for a short time span late season and excelled while playing 78 games in the league overall. Now you watch guys like Mäntylä on the ice and go meh.

Yeah I read he didn't stand out in the practise games but who cares, we aren't talking about potential here but current ability. A guy who can play +20 minutes in the NHL BELONGS in current's Finnish national team no questions asked, especially when every card isn't on the table. This seems to be the trend of Finnish hockey and they always leave out someone who shouldn't even have to prove himself.

Still glad they had enough eye not to scratch Lindell who's been flatout awesome but yeah this has been discussed and it is what it is, which is ridiculously hilarious.

 

[kooma 13]

Ristolainen wasnt good enough. He played good amount of pre tournament games with finland and had the chance to proove himself but he was just bad.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Ristolainen wasnt good enough. He played good amount of pre tournament games with finland and had the chance to proove himself but he was just bad.

This has been talked about a lot here so im not going to write a wall of text, but i have to say it was kinda expected that he wouldn't be good on the big ice right away.

The kid 20 years old and has spent the last 2 seasons trying to make himself a better NHL defenseman. Not only that but he had zero EHT games under his belt. Most likely didn't expect the competition to be as good as it was.

So first he realizes that playing in the EHT is not a walk in the park, then he has troubles adjusting to the big ice and on top of that when he's not playing well he can make some really bad mistakes which just makes him look terrible and adds on to the pressure of playing up expectations.

That's not a very good combination. All he needed was a few more games and especially games that matter to the team (so in other words, any game in the WC) because he's the kind of guy who can flip the switch when needed. Young guys like him also learn fast so it's not like the big ice would've been the problem come game 7, especially when he's played on the big ice for the majority of his career.

Just my opinion but if KJ picked him, in the long run i don't think we would've been unhappy.

 

[QnebO]

Ristolainen wasnt good enough. He played good amount of pre tournament games with finland and had the chance to proove himself but he was just bad.

Ristolainen - Jokipakka would be better than Mäntylä - Jokipakka.

 

[FiLe]

Yeah I read he didn't stand out in the practise games but who cares, we aren't talking about potential here but current ability. A guy who can play +20 minutes in the NHL BELONGS in current's Finnish national team no questions asked, especially when every card isn't on the table. This seems to be the trend of Finnish hockey and they always leave out someone who shouldn't even have to prove himself.

I mentioned this onece already, and I would have loved to see him as much as the next guy, but I don't think this "Ristolainen plays +20 minutes in the NHL" is a very good argument. Sweden's goalie Jhonas Enroth was quoted saying just before games that "their (the Buffalo management) aim was pretty clear, to lose as many games as possible".

Now think in what light that puts the guys in the Sabres who got the most minutes. It's actually NOT a very great vote of confidence in Ristolainen's abilities.

RR is still very much a work in progress, and the bench in Buffalo could play (and hopefully develop) him that much because they didn't care whether they win or lose. KJ & co however very much care about winning. I'm not saying the kid would not have had a place in this team, but to make a case for it, one is going to need some better arguments.

Ristolainen - Jokipakka would be better than Mäntylä - Jokipakka.

On paper, at the very least. On ice, we can only guess.

The fact is, we're pining after Ristolainen only because of his status as a full-time NHLer, which he would NOT have in any given club. And because of said status, we wouldn't question any other possible permutation of d-corps. Jalonen could have cut not just Mäntylä, but Lepistö, Hietanen, Salmela, Jokipakka - anybody, and most of us would have just shrugged and figured they didn't play well enough to make it and were interchangeable to any other guy available anyway. How many would have asked "where's Lindell?"

I feel so damn bizarre, as I hate the cut, but I also hate the gross overreactions it has generated. If people just stopped, took a breath, thought logically (at least those with the ability for it in the first place) - they'd hopefully notice that while it's a disappointment, it's not worth this much hot air.

But eh. Fans are silly like that.

 

[kooma 13]

I dont see team finland being better or worse with ristolainen. At this moment he is not a game changer.

 

[kelsier]

I mentioned this onece already, and I would have loved to see him as much as the next guy, but I don't think this "Ristolainen plays +20 minutes in the NHL" is a very good argument. Sweden's goalie Jhonas Enroth was quoted saying just before games that "their (the Buffalo management) aim was pretty clear, to lose as many games as possible".

Now think in what light that puts the guys in the Sabres who got the most minutes. It's actually NOT a very great vote of confidence in Ristolainen's abilities.

RR is still very much a work in progress, and the bench in Buffalo could play (and hopefully develop) him that much because they didn't care whether they win or lose. KJ & co however very much care about winning. I'm not saying the kid would not have had a place in this team, but to make a case for it, one is going to need some better arguments.

While you think 20+ mins on NHL ice is not a very good argument considering Buffalo was tanking, whynot give the minutes to Zadorov instead if they wanted to lose even more? I didn't see enough Sabres games especially the last ones, but for what I was reading from the Sabres boards about RR, he played really well towards the end of the season. How many games did you see to come to this conclusion? Sure, any 20yo defender is very much "work in the progress" but he was still playing against the best players in the world, night after night. Watching a guy like Mäntylä on the ice who's not up to the game it's not even worth to argue that they made a rash decision cutting him out. Would RR faired? Well that's pure speculation. We will never find out. Nonetheless I'd take 20 minute playing NHL regular over FEL regular any day. Also I wouldn't call a twenty year old guy a kid anymore. Especially someone that's moved into a foreign country, learned a whole new culture and being surrounded by grown up men everyday while being a few thousand miles from his family.

 

[FiLe]

While you think 20+ mins on NHL ice is not a very good argument considering Buffalo was tanking, whynot give the minutes to Zadorov instead if they wanted to lose even more?

Perhaps that's because they saw more potential in Ristolainen, and were cultivating him to be a genuine #1 d-man for them one day? He may not be a complete player yet, but every night in a big role was a step forward. They could afford that, because the results were secondary.

Jalonen, however, is not in cultivating business - for him, the results very much matter right now and not some time in the future. Whether RR even in his current form could have delivered those results is anybody's guess, but that still doesn't change the fact that "20+ minutes in Buffalo" is not a viable argument - at least alone - given the circumstances there.

 

[FiLe]

Here's some additional food for thought concerning Ristolainen:

Like the most, I was initially highly sceptical about the cut, and suspected that it might have something to do with our coach having two different decks for veteran players and newcomers.

However, while Jalonen did not see in Ristolainen whatever it would have taken for him to make this squad - he did see it in Lindell. And thus far Lindell's been doing everything one can imagine and more to prove him right.

Is it therefore such impossible an idea that he might have been right about Ristolainen as well?

---

In other news, lines in practice today:

Ruutu-Kontiola-Komarov
Jokinen-Barkov-Donskoi
Pihlström-Immonen-Louhivaara
Pesonen-Kemppainen-Aaltonen

Oo-kay. So looks like they'll stick to what they tried in the last game. I admit, I'm not quite sold on that. Kemppainen's line looks like it could do some real damage now, but there's something in it that still doesn't quite make it seem... right. If I'm to think positively, the Donskoi <-> Aaltonen swap could be easy to make now if they don't hit it off.

Another thing that miffs me a bit is Pihlström's continued existence in the regular lineup. He has not been good with the puck thus far.

Oh well, let's hope Jalonen knows what's he's doing.

 

[kelsier]

Perhaps that's because they saw more potential in Ristolainen, and were cultivating him to be a genuine #1 d-man for them one day? He may not be a complete player yet, but every night in a big role was a step forward. They could afford that, because the results were secondary.

Jalonen, however, is not in cultivating business - for him, the results very much matter right now and not some time in the future. Whether RR even in his current form could have delivered those results is anybody's guess, but that still doesn't change the fact that "20+ minutes in Buffalo" is not a viable argument - at least alone - given the circumstances there.

Your owerblowing this Sabres tank scene out of proportions in a big manner. The "20mins a night + the 76 NHL games" argument is viable enough in regards to a WC team without a slightest question. Out of fresh memory can't think of one single Finnish defender who even played that many games in the National League regular season - let alone in top 1-2 or 3-4 role. Where we talking of an Olympic team there'd be a longer bridge. I'm not sure, nor do I care why your defending the decision nor did you even provide any first hand knowledge regarding his complete level, so I take the majority vote here, just as much as the rest of the Finnish majority would have him in the games. He had bad rehersal but knowing RR (if you even know him) he steps up towards the end, everytime.

 

[FiLe]

Your owerblowing this Sabres tank scene out of proportions in a big manner. The "20mins a night + the 76 NHL games" argument is viable enough in regards to a WC team without a slightest question.

There is nothing outlandish about the claim. In about 25 out of the 30 organizations in the league, Ristolainen would have spent his season in the AHL. That kind of player is not on the level to be considered a lock, even for a WHC team. He needed additional showings to nail his spot, and failed to deliver those.

I'm not sure, nor do I care why your defending the decision nor did you even provide any first hand knowledge regarding his complete level, so I take the majority vote here, just as much as the rest of the Finnish majority would have him in the games. He had bad rehersal but knowing RR (if you even know him) he steps up towards the end, everytime.

None of the "so-called" majority have the same intel about Ristolainen as Jalonen and his cohorts did, so to imagine being able to call it better than him with less information (and coaching experience) than him is extremely arrogant.

Like I said above, the reason I went from questioning the call to defending it, is watching Lindell play. I know that some coaches have preoccupation towards veteran players and the fresh faces will have to work double as hard to make the cut - but Jalonen's treatment of Lindell speaks volumes against that. He gave Ristolainen the same treatment as the rest of them, saw something in him that didn't fit in his big picture - and no one who was been in the room as the decision was made can stand on solid ground while questioning the call.

Bottom line: While evaluating the players available to him, Jalonen nailed Lindell and his compete level. Therefore one really can't question his treatment of Ristolainen, as the odds are he didn't single out one young high-level performer and at the same time grossly miscalculate the other one.

 

[Jussi]

There is nothing outlandish about the claim. In about 25 out of the 30 organizations in the league, Ristolainen would have spent his season in the AHL. That kind of player is not on the level to be considered a lock, even for a WHC team. He needed additional showings to nail his spot, and failed to deliver those.

None of the "so-called" majority have the same intel about Ristolainen as Jalonen and his cohorts did, so to imagine being able to call it better than him with less information (and coaching experience) than him is extremely arrogant.

Like I said above, the reason I went from questioning the call to defending it, is watching Lindell play. I know that some coaches have preoccupation towards veteran players and the fresh faces will have to work double as hard to make the cut - but Jalonen's treatment of Lindell speaks volumes against that. He gave Ristolainen the same treatment as the rest of them, saw something in him that didn't fit in his big picture - and no one who was been in the room as the decision was made can stand on solid ground while questioning the call.

Bottom line: While evaluating the players available to him, Jalonen nailed Lindell and his compete level. Therefore one really can't question his treatment of Ristolainen, as the odds are he didn't single out one young high-level performer and at the same time grossly miscalculate the other one.

By that logic he saw something in Mäntylä that made him a better option than Ristolainen. Can you honestly say that decision has been a success?

 

[FiLe]

By that logic he saw something in Mäntylä that made him a better option than Ristolainen. Can you honestly say that decision has been a success?

The jury is still out there on him, but thus far he hasn't been a failure either.

The thing is, Jalonen had a reason to cut Ristolainen, and his treatment of Lindell pretty much proves it was not simple blind preference towards veteran players - like the case may be with some coaches. *cough*Erkka*cough* That doesn't bring us much closer to discovering said reason, but it gives us an incentive to believe that it's a good one.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

Playing Rinne all the time is starting to cheese me off. Yes he's a great goalie - but we're basically in deep trouble if he gets hurt. Now he has a slight cold and Jalonen intends to play him? (shakes head)

 

[BB88]

I dont see team finland being better or worse with ristolainen. At this moment he is not a game changer.

Easy to say now when we've had 3 easy games in a row, watch our D against bigger teams, Russia 1st and read that post again.

Ristolainen plays against top players every night, Mäntylä doesn't.

Speed will kill this team, we will take way too many penalties and that will cost us this tournament.

 

[Mestaruus]

Playing Rinne all the time is starting to cheese me off. Yes he's a great goalie - but we're basically in deep trouble if he gets hurt. Now he has a slight cold and Jalonen intends to play him? (shakes head)

We don't have the luxury to do that anymore and I think it's the right call to let Rinne play all the games now if he feels good about playing them all.

We screwed up the USA game so this is the result. If we had beaten USA we wouldn't be in this situation and one of the other goalies, probably Saros would've played 1-2 games if we had won all our games up till that point.

If we had lost one more game we would be playing life or death games against SVK, BLR & RUS now, but that's not the case and we can afford 1 more loss if something goes wrong.

 

[FiLe]

If we had lost one more game we would be playing life or death games against SVK, BLR & RUS now, but that's not the case and we can afford 1 more loss if something goes wrong.

Technically two. A win from either Slovakia or Belarus put us over the top for sure. After that it's only a matter of final placement within the group.

Of course, it'd be nice to be a tad higher than 4th, given that Canada is going come out on top in Prague. I like our chances better against either the Czechs or Sweden.

 

[Mestaruus]

Of course, it'd be nice to be a tad higher than 4th, given that Canada is going come out on top in Prague. I like our chances better against either the Czechs or Sweden.

Yep for sure. Group win is the big deal in Finland's group though. Czech as the home team is a nightmare to play against and with that change of scenery as a bonus. Then Sweden, Canada...

I got a bad feeling about today's game being a surprise win for SVK. I hope I'm wrong. Our player material should be good enough this year to win even with a little bit weaker game, but what worries me is that Finland is a favorite in a game vs a top-8 nation. We saw what happened last Friday. Although USA is stronger on paper, but it still worries me with Slovakia having home crowd (unless those 5k-10k Finnish people at the area got a lot of tickets) and the fact that Slovakia needs to win and Finland doesn't need to win doesn't make it an ideal situation.