2014 Out of Town Off-Season Thread

[Gee Wally]

He'd fit in well at Johnny Rocket's.

GET IT?!

LOL...

you suck.

 

[qc]

LOL...

you suck.

In other news, Justin Braun just got a 5 year deal.

I've always had a soft spot for him.

 

[member 96824]

He'd fit in well at Johnny Rocket's.

GET IT?!

 

[BMC]

Armstrong went public after Sobotka selfishly ran away. Armstrong also offered Sobotka a very fair deal given his skillset and role..at least in my opinion.

Armstrong plays a strong game, but ends up coming to the middle and getting typically fair or below market values on most if not all of his players. See David Backes(4.5M), Pietrangelo (6.5M Long term), J-BO(5.4), Oshie(4.175), etc.

What Columbus is doing isn't even close to similar. They're shooting themselves in the foot by coming out and showing the fact that they've been trying to low ball their franchise center. RJ can either A. Be underpaid for the next two years B. Be underpaid for the next 6 years or C. Be underpaid for the next 8 years. Gee, what options! If I was a Lumbus fan(I root for them, but not much passed that), I'd be livid about this entire situation.

Brain the guy has had ONE outstanding season. There are no guarantees he will do the same or better. If during his ELC he had torn up the league all 3 years I'd agree with you about showing him the money. But he didn't, in fact he got sent down to the AHL for 40 games during his second year.

 

[member 96824]

Brain the guy has had ONE outstanding season. There are no guarantees he will do the same or better. If during his ELC he had torn up the league all 3 years I'd agree with you about showing him the money. But he didn't, in fact he got sent down to the AHL for 40 games during his second year.

Aware of that...but the guy was drafted 4th overall in a very good draft for a reason, and he's shown the ability to live up to that....both at the AHL and NHL levels.

Not to mention that Columbus isn't exactly a market where you can afford to get below market value for players.

We paid Seguin long term after one good year and it looks like it ended up being the wrong move for him(not because he was dealt, but because that contract looks like a steal).

This entire thing is childish by Jarmo. He's complaining that the offers have been insulting, while the three contract offers he made public are the options to be underpaid for just periods of time.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Armstrong went public after Sobotka selfishly ran away. Armstrong also offered Sobotka a very fair deal given his skillset and role..at least in my opinion.

Armstrong plays a strong game, but ends up coming to the middle and getting typically fair or below market values on most if not all of his players. See David Backes(4.5M), Pietrangelo (6.5M Long term), J-BO(5.4), Oshie(4.175), etc.

What Columbus is doing isn't even close to similar. They're shooting themselves in the foot by coming out and showing the fact that they've been trying to low ball their franchise center. RJ can either A. Be underpaid for the next two years B. Be underpaid for the next 6 years or C. Be underpaid for the next 8 years. Gee, what options! If I was a Lumbus fan(I root for them, but not much passed that), I'd be livid about this entire situation.

Brad, we all know you have some sort of anti-Sobotka complex , but that isn't exactly what happened. You are (conveniently?) leaving out the fact that Armstrong low-balled AP initially and he held out, which forced Armstrong's hand. Also, STL is said to be "far apart" with Schwartz on his deal, so maybe there are more similarities with JD than you think?

QC asked when the last time something like this happened, and Armstrong DID go public with the offers to Sobotka, did he not? And whether you think the offers were fair or not, that's not really part of the equation. JD obviously thinks the offers were "fair" as well, otherwise he would not have gone public with them. CLS has just recently become good, so the comparison to STL is not a good one IMO, but if you look at recent transactions, they did give Horton a long term deal @ $5.3m, extended Dubinsky at $5.85m (which I thought was overpayment myself), and traded for Hartnell at $4.75m, so I'm not sure you could exactly call CLS cheap either.

Finally, it's easy for you to say that the CLS offers are "underpayment", when it's not your $$$ and you assume continued improvement from RJ. He didn't exactly develop as quickly as a lot of Top 5 picks, and has had ONE good year, I can see why CLS would be hesitant to open up the vault for him. Besides, $6m a year is not exactly chump change is it?

 

[Minny Shinny]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: MIN G Josh Harding's off-ice injury is significant, likely to be out months as opposed to weeks. On crutches/in a boot. Tough break.

Another season of watching the backup to the backup of the backup in Minnesota.

This should speed up GMCF's negotiations with Darcy Kuemper. Time to step off the hill of the two-way deal sticking point.

 

[member 96824]

Brad, we all know you have some sort of anti-Sobotka complex , but that isn't exactly what happened. You are (conveniently?) leaving out the fact that Armstrong low-balled AP initially and he held out, which forced Armstrong's hand. Also, STL is said to be "far apart" with Schwartz on his deal, so maybe there are more similarities with JD than you think?

QC asked when the last time something like this happened, and Armstrong DID go public with the offers to Sobotka, did he not? And whether you think the offers were fair or not, that's not really part of the equation. JD obviously thinks the offers were "fair" as well, otherwise he would not have gone public with them. CLS has just recently become good, so the comparison to STL is not a good one IMO, but if you look at recent transactions, they did give Horton a long term deal @ $5.3m, extended Dubinsky at $5.85m (which I thought was overpayment myself), and traded for Hartnell at $4.75m, so I'm not sure you could exactly call CLS cheap either.

Finally, it's easy for you to say that the CLS offers are "underpayment", when it's not your $$$ and you assume continued improvement from RJ. He didn't exactly develop as quickly as a lot of Top 5 picks, and has had ONE good year, I can see why CLS would be hesitant to open up the vault for him. Besides, $6m a year is not exactly chump change is it?

Sobotka is like that old saying "I like Jesus, it's his fans that drive me nuts."

Like I said, Armstrong usually plays a tough game but comes to the middle on a fair deal, usually it favors the team, but still decently fair. Armstrong did go public with the offers, but it was after Sobotka had already signed a deal and bolted for the KHL. Obviously the media wanted an explaination so he gave it to them...including a $3M offer, which IMO is overpayment.

Much different than telling a guy to not come to camp and putting the offers out to the media.

All three of those offers are below 6, even the 8 year one. The entire situation just looks bad on him. Very bad. If I'm Johansen, I'd request a deal today and tell Jarmo to go **** himself....then he's stuck explaining to his fans why their franchise player just walked.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Sobotka is like that old saying "I like Jesus, it's his fans that drive me nuts."

Like I said, Armstrong usually plays a tough game but comes to the middle on a fair deal, usually it favors the team, but still decently fair. Armstrong did go public with the offers, but it was after Sobotka had already signed a deal and bolted for the KHL. Obviously the media wanted an explaination so he gave it to them...including a $3M offer, which IMO is overpayment.

Much different than telling a guy to not come to camp and putting the offers out to the media.

All three of those offers are below 6, even the 8 year one. The entire situation just looks bad on him. Very bad. If I'm Johansen, I'd request a deal today and tell Jarmo to go **** himself....then he's stuck explaining to his fans why their franchise player just walked.

When I read the tweet, thought it said 5 (not 6)/32 and 8/48 (not 46)...

$5.33m and $5.75m are STILL not chump change

And, exactly when did Ryan Johansen become the Jacket's "franchise player"?? I get that he looks like he will be really good, but once again...one year does not a franchise player make.

Was Blaine Lacher a "franchise player"?

 

[GloryDaze4877]

In other news, Justin Braun just got a 5 year deal.

I've always had a soft spot for him.

Watched him play quite a bit at UMass. Always liked him, but I thought that his D partner, big kid from Quebec named Martin Nolet (5th round pick of the Kings) would be the better pro.

Good thing I didn't give up my day job

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

this Johansen thing is just proof that the NHL needs to figure out a way to limit 2nd contracts somehow in the next CBA. It's way too common for a guy to play well in the last year of his ELC and then try to cash in. Honestly it seems like that particular situation is the most common source of contract disputes. You don't see nearly this much complication in guys negotiating UFA deals.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Johansen is seriously overvaluing himself at this point.

One thirty goal season does not get you the money you want. You're not getting the 6 million you want with that little of a resume. The 5.3 over 6 the Jackets are offering is a pretty fair deal. (I'll admit the 8 year deal is a bit too little if you're taking that many UFA years.)

Take the bridge and man up, you spoiled brat. PK Subban did, and you can argue it paid off in spades for him.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that Johansen got benched in the AHL a year prior to last season.

 

[bp13]

I'm trying to think of the last time something like this happened..

Harry Sinden.

Pick a year. Any year.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Johansen is seriously overvaluing himself at this point.

One thirty goal season does not get you the money you want. You're not getting the 6 million you want with that little of a resume. The 5.3 over 6 the Jackets are offering is a pretty fair deal. (I'll admit the 8 year deal is a bit too little if you're taking that many UFA years.)

Take the bridge and man up, you spoiled brat. PK Subban did, and you can argue it paid off in spades for him.

I think they're lowballing him TBH. He isn't just a scorer, he's a really complete player that is head and shoulders above any forward on that team both for right now (even at 22), and for future impact. Those aren't the type of players you look to get on bargain max-length contracts; you pay them as your franchise player. Look at the way people look at the Tavares deal tight now; they'd be saying something similar about this one.

$3 million also seems like kind of a slap in the face even for a bridge contract when players like Tyler Johnson are getting similar deals.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Maybe a little bit of lowballing. The 8 year deal was stupid, and i agree the bridge they offered could have been a bit higher (i feel the 4-4.5 range would be suitable.)

Johansen isn't exactly helping with his wild demands.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Johansen is seriously overvaluing himself at this point.

One thirty goal season does not get you the money you want. You're not getting the 6 million you want with that little of a resume. The 5.3 over 6 the Jackets are offering is a pretty fair deal. (I'll admit the 8 year deal is a bit too little if you're taking that many UFA years.)

Take the bridge and man up, you spoiled brat. PK Subban did, and you can argue it paid off in spades for him.

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that Johansen got benched in the AHL a year prior to last season.

I saw him play a fair amount in Springfield, and he was not the most consistent guy to be honest. When I was watching, Cam Atkinson actually looked like the better player.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Maybe a little bit of lowballing. The 8 year deal was stupid, and i agree the bridge they offered could have been a bit higher (i feel the 4-4.5 range would be suitable.)

Johansen isn't exactly helping with his wild demands.

Lowballing and bushleague tactics like making the offers public. I'd be looking to get out if I was Johansen as well.

I saw him play a fair amount in Springfield, and he was not the most consistent guy to be honest. When I was watching, Cam Atkinson actually looked like the better player.

Well he's a hell of a lot better now than then lol. He was a bit of a slow burn in junior as well being drafted really late and improving enough to get picked 4th overall in the NHL. What are people missing here? He's a 6'3 220 do-it-all center that was an all-situations player for his playoff-bound team at 22 years old. He was known more for playmaking but still potted 33 goals last year and led his team in scoring by a significant amount. He screams franchise player and should get the contract that goes along with being that, not Dave Bolland money.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Lowballing and bushleague tactics like making the offers public. I'd be looking to get out if I was Johansen as well.



Well he's a hell of a lot better now than then lol. He was a bit of a slow burn in junior as well being drafted really late and improving enough to get picked 4th overall in the NHL. What are people missing here? He's a 6'3 220 do-it-all center that was an all-situations player for his playoff-bound team at 22 years old. He was known more for playmaking but still potted 33 goals last year and led his team in scoring by a significant amount. He screams franchise player and should get the contract that goes along with being that, not Dave Bolland money.

No one is questioning what he did in the NHL last year, it's fact.

What are you missing about the concept that it was only one year, and that does not make him a franchise player...yet? He could very well become one, or he could suffer a sophomore slump as defenses study his tendencies and concentrate on taking him away?

 

[Trap Jesus]

No one is questioning what he did in the NHL last year, it's fact.

What are you missing about the concept that it was only one year, and that does not make him a franchise player...yet? He could very well become one, or he could suffer a sophomore slump as defenses study his tendencies and concentrate on taking him away?

He's a top 5 pick that came through as the best player on his team on the last year of his ELC. Those players have and should get paid. What did guys like Nugent-Hopkins and Seguin really accomplish when they signed? Seguin had a very underwhelming rookie season and a breakout sophomore year, and Nugent-Hopkins had a good rookie year and a disastrous sophomore season when they signed, and both were nowhere near as important to their team as Johansen was to the Jackets last year. But still, both of them got more money than what Johansen was offered, despite a lower cap.

 

[member 96824]

I don't believe we had any issue calling Tyler Seguin a franchise player after "one good year."

In fact, if you were in the boat that you would trade him for Drew Doughty, you were laughed at.

Johansen is a beast, I'll eat my hat if he turns out to be a one year wonder. Most guys that have huge success in juniors, nearly just below PPG in the AHL, and a 30 goal season in the NHL aren't really candidates for "one year wonders"

If this is truly the case, then Joe we need to start negotiating a sim deal for Jaden Schwartz ASAP...after all, only one good year

 

[KnightofBoston]

I don't believe we had any issue calling Tyler Seguin a franchise player after "one good year."

In fact, if you were in the boat that you would trade him for Drew Doughty, you were laughed at.

Johansen is a beast, I'll eat my hat if he turns out to be a one year wonder. Most guys that have huge success in juniors, nearly just below PPG in the AHL, and a 30 goal season in the NHL aren't really candidates for "one year wonders"

If this is truly the case, then Joe we need to start negotiating a sim deal for Jaden Schwartz ASAP...after all, only one good year

At the time I was more in the boat of Seguin was ours the trade would never happen anyways...I just can't have any fun I guess

Doughty would certainly fit this team better. Our defense would be pretty incredible

I think Seguin definitely has the potential to be a franchise player, he just needs to lock it down in the post season

 

[ODAAT]

Harry Sinden.

Pick a year. Any year.

exactly

 

[ODAAT]

Watched him play quite a bit at UMass. Always liked him, but I thought that his D partner, big kid from Quebec named Martin Nolet (5th round pick of the Kings) would be the better pro.

Good thing I didn't give up my day job

Have to be honest, I`m not sure I`ve watched this kid for one minute or if he was playing, never noticed him (to be fair, I watched about 2, maybe 3 Shark games this past season)

It 'seems' like quite the price tag for a guy who`s not putting up big numbers but....pts aren`t everything

 

[qc]

Harry Sinden.

Pick a year. Any year.

Sinden was a ruthless cheapskate, but did he ever go to the press and divulge specific figures pertaining to offers rejected by the player? I don't remember him ever doing that.

 

[mikelvl]

Article: Apparently Kessel is still a pain in the arse

So this might be some of what Claude and Chia had to deal with. What a diva, but not surprised.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs..._hot_on_spotts_breakout_strategy_feschuk.html

Spott was charged with devising a new breakout play for a team that has long struggled to get the puck out of its own end. Spott thought he’d hit on an effective strategy — until, that is, he shared the plan with Leafs leading scorer Phil Kessel. When Kessel voiced displeasure, Spott discovered a harsh reality of life in the NHL. In some corners of the league, and apparently in Leafland, a coach’s learning curve involves bending to the desires of star players.

“Spotter said that when he went to Phil (with the breakout play), Phil said, I’m not doing it,” said one of the attendees, a former professional player.

“Spott said Carlyle’s attitude was that we’re fired before (Kessel is) out of here, the hierarchy doesn’t want to deal with Phil. He scores 30 (goals) a year and that’s all they want,” said one of the attendees. “(Spott said) Phil hates coaches. He hates Randy. He hates me and I don’t even know him yet.”

Spott was complimentary of Kessel, telling his audience that the winger is one of the smartest hockey minds he’s worked with. Spott also marvelled at how Kessel — who Spott estimated during the lecture is “15 pounds overweight” — remains an explosive speedster.