Speculation: 2014-15 Stars Trade Talk 3: We Decompose

[FrailSwan]

Well this is interesting.

Idk if I could get used to his WTF face all the time.

 

[beepeearr]

So Vancouvers GM was one of the guys that was pushing for the Seguin trade while with Boston... what are we waiting for, him not wanting Kassian, and his comments calling all of Kassians late season goals last year meaningless kind of makes me want to take a chance on him now.

 

[Alistar]

Kassian's been really unlucky with his on ice results this year.. -5 despite solid possession minutes in a defense first role. He hasn't played that much though.

If we can get him for cheap then sure, take a flyer. I don't think he's any improvement over the good depth players we already have on the roster though. In fact Vancouver would probably have to be willing to take on somebody like Erik Cole, Shawn Horcoff, Travis Moen or Vern Fiddler to make the numbers game work on this.

 

[beepeearr]

Kassian's been really unlucky with his on ice results this year.. -5 despite solid possession minutes in a defense first role. He hasn't played that much though.

If we can get him for cheap then sure, take a flyer. I don't think he's any improvement over the good depth players we already have on the roster though. In fact Vancouver would probably have to be willing to take on somebody like Erik Cole, Shawn Horcoff, Travis Moen or Vern Fiddler to make the numbers game work on this.

Kassian makes less then 2 mil, with Gonchar off the books we've been saving up cap space to use, so we should have room for him Cap wise.

Roster spot wise, however, that would be trickier, if no one from the roster is traded out. Morin has to be sent down in January anyways or clear waivers again. So that leaves us with an open spot until Eaves, Nuke, Nemeth, or Pevs comes back. If Ritchie stays up I dont want to see him sit for Kassian or get sent down because of him either for that matter either.

 

[haf]

Kassian's been really unlucky with his on ice results this year.. -5 despite solid possession minutes in a defense first role. He hasn't played that much though.

If we can get him for cheap then sure, take a flyer. I don't think he's any improvement over the good depth players we already have on the roster though. In fact Vancouver would probably have to be willing to take on somebody like Erik Cole, Shawn Horcoff, Travis Moen or Vern Fiddler to make the numbers game work on this.

i am not seeing solid possession stats for Kassian at all. I was assuming that was why he was in Willie's dog house earlier this year. Am i missing something?

 

[TrillMike]

Not a fan of Kassian.

 

[Mr Misty]

I don't think Kassian is really a fit unless we move Nuke. There just isn't room for him with
B-S-N
Ritchie-S-H
R-E-G
S-F-McKenzie
(or however that lineup is put together) and I don't think he does anything that Nichushkin and Garbutt don't already do for us.

 

[Hull Fan]

he's a depth guy who maybe fits on the 3rd line. he's better than horcoff/moen moving forward. someone is going to play on the 4th line next season. rather it be a cheap young guy with upside. i'm not convinced mckenzie is that much better than him.

 

[Mr Misty]

he's a depth guy who maybe fits on the 3rd line. he's better than horcoff/moen moving forward. someone is going to play on the 4th line next season. rather it be a cheap young guy with upside. i'm not convinced mckenzie is that much better than him.

How much does better than him matter if McKenzie doesn't cost assets and we are talking 4th line minutes? Seems to me like teams would try to buy low on Kassian to try to turn him around and 4th line minutes don't do much for his development.

 

[Cin]

Would love to see Kassian here. The only way bringing him in would make any sense though, is to remove Ruff. He won't utilize him correctly... Like nearly everybody in Dallas already.

 

[beepeearr]

If we were to pick up Kassian, I would hope we see lines like this Next Year

Benn Seguin Ritchie
Nichushkin Spezza Hemsky
Roussel Eakin Kassian
Garbutt Fiddler Sceviour
Moen

 

[Hull Fan]

How much does better than him matter if McKenzie doesn't cost assets and we are talking 4th line minutes? Seems to me like teams would try to buy low on Kassian to try to turn him around and 4th line minutes don't do much for his development.

it's not about his development but whether he's better than our other options going forward. I wouldn't pay much for him. But if Vancouver wants Glennie, or Jordie or some such I'd take Kassian and his cap hit and see where it leads us. If another team pays more so be it. Nothing was lost.

If Dallas figures it out and is in a playoff chase he'd be good depth. If not he's another of the round robin wingers trying to fit with Spezza. Either way, for a cheap price he's worth the gamble.

 

[Alistar]

i am not seeing solid possession stats for Kassian at all. I was assuming that was why he was in Willie's dog house earlier this year. Am i missing something?

He's breaking even on the shot attempts this year despite playing more defensive zone starts than offensive, and with below average linemates... he's played almost exclusively with Brad Richardson and Shawn Matthias this year. I'm really not seeing the reason why he is up for banishment but maybe they don't like his attitude or something.

Looking at the stats from last couple years, it seems like Vancouver's top players (Sedins, Kesler) were held back a bit when Kassian was on the ice.. definitely not an ideal top 6 forward. The depth guys however (Richardson, Booth) did much better with Kassian than with other depth forwards, so it seems like he could really bring something to the bottom 6.

 

[haf]

He's breaking even on the shot attempts this year despite playing more defensive zone starts than offensive, and with below average linemates... he's played almost exclusively with Brad Richardson and Shawn Matthias this year. I'm really not seeing the reason why he is up for banishment but maybe they don't like his attitude or something.

Looking at the stats from last couple years, it seems like Vancouver's top players (Sedins, Kesler) were held back a bit when Kassian was on the ice.. definitely not an ideal top 6 forward. The depth guys however (Richardson, Booth) did much better with Kassian than with other depth forwards, so it seems like he could really bring something to the bottom 6.

thanks for following up. his relative corsi is -5 give or take this year. not terrible really. i really don't like his off zone finishes being so low. i think advancing the puck is super important. He would be bottom three on our team. nowhere near 50%.

i would pick him up and send him to the minors for Willie to clean up his game.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Dustin Byfuglien looking pretty damn good tonight against the Leafs.

I think he'd be great in Dallas.

 

[Cin]

He would be a pretty perfect fit for this team.

Kane and Buff for Goligoski sounds fair enough.

 

[haf]

He would be a pretty perfect fit for this team.

Kane and Buff for Goligoski sounds fair enough.

it would have to be daley. right side players only.
but i think you are onto something.

 

[Alistar]

thanks for following up. his relative corsi is -5 give or take this year. not terrible really. i really don't like his off zone finishes being so low. i think advancing the puck is super important. He would be bottom three on our team. nowhere near 50%.

i would pick him up and send him to the minors for Willie to clean up his game.

yeah I'm not a big fan of relative corsi or fenwick, because it doesn't take into account deployment and matchups unless it's usage adjusted.. I know there's some guys trying that stuff out but I don't think there's a lot of consensus right now about methodology.

On a team like the Canucks, they like to boost their top guys with a heavy dose of soft minutes and offensive zone starts. Maybe not so much this year as they have in the past, but the Sedin brothers still get out there for many more offensive zone starts than otherwise. The Stars do the same thing with Spezza, Hemsky, Cole, and to a lesser extent Benn and Seguin. The downside to that strategy is that your depth guys really have to pick the team up in their own end, and it seems to me like Kassian has done a decent job of that the last couple years.

I tend to just look at offensive zone start ratio and TOI to get an idea about how the coach is using the player, then check out the with or without you stats to see if the guy has a positive impact on his linemates.

 

[haf]

yeah I'm not a big fan of relative corsi or fenwick, because it doesn't take into account deployment and matchups unless it's usage adjusted.. I know there's some guys trying that stuff out but I don't think there's a lot of consensus right now about methodology.

On a team like the Canucks, they like to boost their top guys with a heavy dose of soft minutes and offensive zone starts. Maybe not so much this year as they have in the past, but the Sedin brothers still get out there for many more offensive zone starts than otherwise. The Stars do the same thing with Spezza, Hemsky, Cole, and to a lesser extent Benn and Seguin. The downside to that strategy is that your depth guys really have to pick the team up in their own end, and it seems to me like Kassian has done a decent job of that the last couple years.

I tend to just look at offensive zone start ratio and TOI to get an idea about how the coach is using the player, then check out the with or without you stats to see if the guy has a positive impact on his linemates.

right. he has a bad ratio between off zone starts and finishes. like it drops off pretty considerably. not a good thing in my book.

garbutt and rousel's number one trait in my mind is always advancing the puck. his toi is in the 4th line area. 10:00 a game.

but big bodies are big bodies and he doesn't have bad hands. just not a lot of defense or little play smarts.

 

[jason9090spezza]

He would be a pretty perfect fit for this team.

Kane and Buff for Goligoski sounds fair enough.

Add Joride Benn in there. 2 on 2 sounds good to me

 

[OttMorrow]

We need a good backup bad. The thought of Kari uninsured in the Playoffs is just terrifying.

 

[redbeardtx]

We need a good backup bad. The thought of Kari uninsured in the Playoffs is just terrifying.

Just like the lightning last year...same backup goalie. We're screwed...

 

[OttMorrow]

Just like the lightning last year...same backup goalie. We're screwed...

Goaltending is still our Achilles heel. At least the defense is improving.

 

[OttMorrow]

Here's a thought. If Ritchie keeps it up, do we consider trading Sceviour to make room on the right side?

It would hurt to move Nuke.

Horcoff is valuable to us in the playoffs.

Hemsky's contract is a tough sell.

Moen has no value.

Sceviour might make the most sense. Ritchie is younger, bigger, and has more upside. Just a thought.

 

[Frozen Failure]

Here's a thought. If Ritchie keeps it up, do we consider trading Sceviour to make room on the right side?

It would hurt to move Nuke.

Horcoff is valuable to us in the playoffs.

Hemsky's contract is a tough sell.

Moen has no value.

Sceviour might make the most sense. Ritchie is younger, bigger, and has more upside. Just a thought.

We just move Sceviour to the fourth line and then let him walk at free agency for a big pay day.