League News: 2014-15 Around the League III

[g00n]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/disappointed-playoff-ouster-ducks-look-solid-future-230400962--nhl.html

General manager Bob Murray refused to affirm Boudreau would be back on the bench, but noted the team was ''five wins away'' from raising the Stanley Cup.

''We've made big strides this year,'' Murray said. ''I thought the coaching staff made strides this year, but I've still got to talk to them. I'm not one to do things quickly. I'm not thinking about anything right now.''

If I'm BB I'm sweating it out a little bit

 

[Turd Ferguson]

And Seabrook is a free agent next year. Possibly another huge deal?

Yea, It is hard to say which one is arguably better because for so long Seabrook has been playing in Keith's shadow. I do agree with Don Cherry on that one, Seabrook doesn't get a lot of the acknowledgement he deserves. It would be funny though if he ended up getting paid higher then Keith, which I fully anticipate because of how the UFA market goes. I Herd it said that when it comes down to next year and their current cap situation they may have to pick between Crawford and Seabrook on who stays and we all know who would win that. Plus he is a resilient guy, 5 82 game seasons, 1 81, 2 78 and only missed one game in that historic shortened season.

He's going to be rolling in money.

 

[Stewie G]

Keith has one of the cap-circumventing front-loaded contracts that are no longer allowed. The Hawks got a couple of those in before the lockout, which really helps with their ability to add depth.

Keith's deal
Hossa's deal

His is even more egregious with four $1M years at the end. That's going to be a tough one to handle in a couple years with the potential recapture penalties.

Edit: Front-loaded, not back-loaded.

 

[Hivemind]

I like Hossa and I like Chicago (at least relative to most teams), but I really want the recapture on Hossa's contract to bite Chicago. They've won multiple cups in large part because the shenanigans they played with those contracts.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/disappointed-playoff-ouster-ducks-look-solid-future-230400962--nhl.html




If I'm BB I'm sweating it out a little bit

He and Murray appear to be at odds. If I'm Bruce, I'm worried, but know that I would get hired almost immediately again if let go. Poor timing if it happened now because openings are filled, so take a year off then take his pick of available jobs.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I like Hossa and I like Chicago (at least relative to most teams), but I really want the recapture on Hossa's contract to bite Chicago. They've won multiple cups in large part because the shenanigans they played with those contracts.

They did what was within the rules at the time. This is a masterfully run franchise and they're reaping the rewards. Pays to be smarter than everyone else.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

They did what was within the rules at the time. This is a masterfully run franchise and they're reaping the rewards. Pays to be smarter than everyone else.

Bingo. We had the opportunity to try the same with Ovechkin and Backstrom. We didn't.

 

[Hivemind]

Bingo. We had the opportunity to try the same with Ovechkin and Backstrom. We didn't.

Signing Ovechkin or Backstrom to a back diving contract would have meant a 15+ year contract. There are no indications that either player even wanted a contract of that term. Those contracts were dolled out to UFA-aged players, not RFAs.

Those types of contracts were disallowed, though the NHL lacked an enforcement mechanism to prohibit them until they made one up after Kovalchuk's deal. Compounded with them subsequently turning a blind eye on the Pronger deal by giving him a job, this is the NHL's equivalent to the NFL's bush league cap penalties to Washington and Dallas for their actions in the uncapped year.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

3.5M a year in cap savings... imagine what we could've done with a decade of playing with a higher cap than everyone else. The Blackhawks teams since 2010 will always carry an asterisk in my mind. Easy to succeed when you're playing by different rules.

The thing that pisses me off the most about it is that even though the NHL's decided those contracts are illegal, they still let the teams that did them get away with it. Why didn't they just change the cap hits on those contracts to not reflect the back-diving years? The cap recapture **** will basically never happen, since players can just go on LTIR when they can't play anymore and collect free money instead of retiring.

 

[Stewie G]

3.5M a year in cap savings... imagine what we could've done with a decade of playing with a higher cap than everyone else. The Blackhawks teams since 2010 will always carry an asterisk in my mind. Easy to succeed when you're playing by different rules.

The thing that pisses me off the most about it is that even though the NHL's decided those contracts are illegal, they still let the teams that did them get away with it. Why didn't they just change the cap hits on those contracts to not reflect the back-diving years? The cap recapture **** will basically never happen, since players can just go on LTIR when they can't play anymore and collect free money instead of retiring.

Is there any sort of physical exam required when someone goes on LTIR? Perhaps something like that might help, but I imagine it would be pretty easy to game that system.

 

[Hivemind]

Lou Lamirello has been gaming LTIR for quite a while now. And guys like Pronger, Savard, and likely Hornton should all be retired instead of LTIR.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Is there any sort of physical exam required when someone goes on LTIR? Perhaps something like that might help, but I imagine it would be pretty easy to game that system.

I think it has to be approved by team doctors, so it'd probably be pretty easy for them to exaggerate some nagging injury for a 40+ year old in order to keep him out. Or they could make a handshake deal with a team looking to make the cap floor - that team could just pay him 1M a year for a 5.3M a year cap hit and keep him in the press box. Hossa gets paid his last 4M to watch some hockey games, the cheap team's owner saves 4.3M a year, and the Hawks get away with gaming the system.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Signing Ovechkin or Backstrom to a back diving contract would have meant a 15+ year contract. There are no indications that either player even wanted a contract of that term. Those contracts were dolled out to UFA-aged players, not RFAs.

Those types of contracts were disallowed, though the NHL lacked an enforcement mechanism to prohibit them until they made one up after Kovalchuk's deal. Compounded with them subsequently turning a blind eye on the Pronger deal by giving him a job, this is the NHL's equivalent to the NFL's bush league cap penalties to Washington and Dallas for their actions in the uncapped year.

There was no indication that they didn't.

 

[Stewie G]

Lou Lamirello has been gaming LTIR for quite a while now. And guys like Pronger, Savard, and likely Hornton should all be retired instead of LTIR.

I'm not familiar with the CBA, but those guys are injured, correct? It's not like they could play if they wanted to. Does it spell out the conditions for LTIR in the CBA?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm not familiar with the CBA, but those guys are injured, correct? It's not like they could play if they wanted to. Does it spell out the conditions for LTIR in the CBA?

Yeah I don't see the distinction....those are 3 guys with career ending injuries. To me, that's the EXACT example of legit LTIR.

 

[Ajax1995]

To me, that's the EXACT example of legit LTIR.

I don't know. IMO LTIR implies a player will at some point return. None of those guys is ever returning and everyone knows it so for all intents and purposes they are retired.

 

[Brian23]

I like Hossa and I like Chicago (at least relative to most teams), but I really want the recapture on Hossa's contract to bite Chicago. They've won multiple cups in large part because the shenanigans they played with those contracts.

I don't get why, this is like the Redskins and Cowboys getting punished by the NFL. They played within the rules and did so masterfully, why on Earth should they be punished later for not breaking the rules? That's ridiculous. Everyone had the option to do it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't know. IMO LTIR implies a player will at some point return. None of those guys is ever returning and everyone knows it so for all intents and purposes they are retired.

Riddle me this....Why would a player retire or agree to a buyout if he's got a career ending injury and a fat contract that he earned. There are cap ramifications, so LTIR is exactly the vehicle to deal with that. Is there another option I'm missing that doesn't screw the player or team?

 

[Ajax1995]

Riddle me this....Why would a player retire or agree to a buyout if he's got a career ending injury and a fat contract that he earned. There are cap ramifications, so LTIR is exactly the vehicle to deal with that. Is there another option I'm missing that doesn't screw the player or team?

I don't know because the history of professional sports in general is littered with guys who retired in the midst of lucrative contracts because they knew they could not fulfill their end of the bargain on the field anymore. IMO that is called integrity.

I get it, the CBA doesn't allow for retirement buyouts and the last thing the teams want is for the guy to retire and thus they would be on the hook for the recapture penalties but IMO the integrity of the situation says that is what should happen.

 

[Ajax1995]

I don't get why, this is like the Redskins and Cowboys getting punished by the NFL. They played within the rules and did so masterfully, why on Earth should they be punished later for not breaking the rules? That's ridiculous. Everyone had the option to do it.

Because it was against 'the spirit' of the rules the same way the back diving NHL contracts were against 'the spirit' of the CBA and thus the league decided to do something about them.

I guess I am completely on board with the idea that just because you 'can' do something doesn't mean you should do something. Lots of things are within the rules/law but doesn't make them ok IMO.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Because it was against 'the spirit' of the rules the same way the back diving NHL contracts were against 'the spirit' of the CBA and thus the league decided to do something about them.

I guess I am completely on board with the idea that just because you 'can' do something doesn't mean you should do something. Lots of things are within the rules/law but doesn't make them ok IMO.

Yeah, it must really eat at the Blackhawks fans and executives that they've violated the spirit of the rules.

 

[Hivemind]

Do keep in mind the NHL issued a statement that these types of contracts were against the rules, and eventually did punish the Devils for a back-diving deal (though they later softened the punishment after Kovalchuk's "retirement"). The league's enforcement is haphazard (even if the previous CBA lacked proper mechanisms), and taking on a deal of this nature does incur risk. Heck, Chicago could still be screwed in the future if they are burdened by the recapture that was instituted well after they signed Hossa. Though, obviously, 2-3 cups is worth that pain down the road.

Kovalchuk's 17 year deal was signed at age 27, and was the longest in league history. There really wasn't an avenue to sign Backstrom or Ovechkin to even longer deals at an even younger age without enormous risk. If the Caps were to take advantage, it would have had to a Hossa-like addition via UFA.

I'm not familiar with the CBA, but those guys are injured, correct? It's not like they could play if they wanted to. Does it spell out the conditions for LTIR in the CBA?

I'm too lazy to dig through the CBA to see what mandates are required to LTIR a player (but keep mind how we had Orlov on LTIR long after he played his conditioning games in Hershey, so I don't think it's very stringent). All of those guys are indeed injured, but it's to the point where it's not expected they return at any point. This is most pressing in the case of Pronger, who has actually held two jobs in his post-player career (scout with Flyers and now in the NHL's DoPS) and has a 35+ contract. If Pronger retired, his 35+ contract would impact the Flyers' salary cap. Since he's on LTIR, it effectively doesn't (minus elimination of banking cap space and off-season limits). Even more to the point, the NHL has acknowledged he's no longer an active player by hiring him to the DoPS, which also means he's simultaneously under contract with the Philadelphia Flyers and the league itself (something that is expressively prohibited by the CBA). Neither the NHL nor the NHLPA are going to raise a stink about Pronger getting paid by two sources here, so there will be no fallout. As with the Kovalchuk deal, this is another example of the NHL enforcing its rules when it wants to and turning a blind eye when it doesn't.

Most players' contracts are insured (though Horton's was not), so them retiring does not cost the player any money.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't know because the history of professional sports in general is littered with guys who retired in the midst of lucrative contracts because they knew they could not fulfill their end of the bargain on the field anymore. IMO that is called integrity.

I get it, the CBA doesn't allow for retirement buyouts and the last thing the teams want is for the guy to retire and thus they would be on the hook for the recapture penalties but IMO the integrity of the situation says that is what should happen.

Wait, the history of sports is littered with guys who got injured on the job, could no longer perform and decided to just give away their hard earned last contract? I disagree.

 

[Ajax1995]

Yeah, it must really eat at the Blackhawks fans and executives that they've violated the spirit of the rules.

Everyone has different amounts of integrity and personal morality so I wouldn't know...

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Wait, the history of sports is littered with guys who got injured on the job, could no longer perform and decided to just give away their hard earned last contract? I disagree.

Brooks Laich is retiring this offseason?

Green meant to last year. And Kolzig meant to as well in 2008.

Integrity.