Prospect Info: 2012 16th Overall - Tom Wilson, Right Wing
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Zoidberg Jesus
Trotzkyist
- Oct 25, 2011
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fedfed
@FedFedRMNB
Zoidberg Jesus
Trotzkyist
- Oct 25, 2011
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Didn't he do that last year too? I hope this isn't going to be a recurring problem.
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
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I'm pretty upset right now
You probably shouldn't be. I like what I see from Hertl, but settle down a bit. Just a few games doesn't matter in comparison the years and years of owning rights for both players, and I'm just going to go ahead and guess that Wilson will produce moments that make you happy to have him around. A few goals scored early does not a superstar make. Just ask Fabian Brunnstrom.
I like Wilson and Latta, I would prefer Volpatti never play for the Caps ever again. He is a classic 13th forward and should only play if there is an injury to a better player. If he is in the lineup that means something bad happened to a better player. So In a perfect world he would be in the press box all season.
I would like to see Wilson and Latta play with a vet like Chimera. Chimera shouldn't be playing more than 12-13 minutes per night anyway. And 1-2 of those should be killing penalties.
As for Hertl, I really liked him too. But I am not sure he is going to be a better player than Wilson. He is certainly more NHL ready as he has years of professional experience already. So it is no surprise is will be better in the early part of his career than Wilson. But long term we are going to be just fine with Wilson. He is going to be a good one.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
- Nov 3, 2006
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Remember Torts scratching Richards instead of playing him ill fitted on a 4th line role? Heads exploded. Then their 4th line RW Asham scored a back breaker goal and we lost that series.
Sometimes 4th lines do their best when made up to be a 4th line, not just comprised of players that do not fit in the top 9.
I bet there is not a single Caps fan that has been impressed with our 4th line.
Assuming Oates is not trying to roll 4 scoring lines, Volpatti brings more to a 4th line than Erat. I am with Torts on this one. Let's assemble a snow PLoW line that Wilson can shine in.
Sometimes 4th lines do their best when made up to be a 4th line, not just comprised of players that do not fit in the top 9.
I bet there is not a single Caps fan that has been impressed with our 4th line.
Assuming Oates is not trying to roll 4 scoring lines, Volpatti brings more to a 4th line than Erat. I am with Torts on this one. Let's assemble a snow PLoW line that Wilson can shine in.
BobRouse
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2009
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RH
I completely agree. The role of the 4th line gets muddled when you put a high end player like Erat on there.
It should be an energy line that goes out there to A) hit and create energy, B) not give up goals against
Chimera is a far better fit there.
Besides our 3rd line has been beyond brutal across the board. Chimera/Fehr/Ward has been downright awful so shaking things up there is probably a good thing.
I do think Wilson can play in a more scoring capacity however. I think, based on what I have seen, his offensive game at least matches Ward's with room to grow. We need him to get more ice time.
I completely agree. The role of the 4th line gets muddled when you put a high end player like Erat on there.
It should be an energy line that goes out there to A) hit and create energy, B) not give up goals against
Chimera is a far better fit there.
Besides our 3rd line has been beyond brutal across the board. Chimera/Fehr/Ward has been downright awful so shaking things up there is probably a good thing.
I do think Wilson can play in a more scoring capacity however. I think, based on what I have seen, his offensive game at least matches Ward's with room to grow. We need him to get more ice time.
I agree with that and I would certainly take Asham over Erat on the 4th line. Volpattis is not Asham. Volpattis is IMO not an NHL player. I would rather have an NHL calibre player in my lineup than a guy who really shouldn't be playing in this league.
I think this is a great idea. I think Chimera should be on the 4th line with Latta and Wilson. That would be a much better fit than Erat.
Maybe I misunderstoond what was being discussed. But I was responding to the idea Volpatti should be in the lineup over Erat. And that should never happen no matter what role you are thinking about. Volpatti is not an NHL player. If we could clone Chimeria or bring in a proper 4th line NHL energy guy than I am all for it. But Volpatti is not the answer.
BobRouse
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2009
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Well I'm not that down on Volpatti and think he is an NHL player but we have players better than him for that role.
Now the gist of what RH was saying, I think, was that the 4th line should have a specific purpose and that putting Erat on there detracts from that purpose.
I think in time we will see the logical lineup that pretty much all of us would agree on including much of the media -
90-19-8
10-84-20
16-21-43
25-83-42
(maybe Latta in for Beagle)
But for now I do think Oates is up to something and is a patient guy. After what I saw him do with Ovechkin I think he has absolutely earned a long leash on how he handles players.
I don't think anyone would argue with that. But Volpatti is not the answer. And if Volpatti is the answer I am really worried about the question.
Now if you want to make the arugment that we should move Erat for a player like simular to Chimera and pick or prospect. I would be all for that. Because that would be a better fit now and give us something to work with in the future.
But Volpatti should not be on a quality teams NHL roster. There is a reason why a 28 year old has only played 71 games in the NHL.
The worst scenario:
- we are crippled at start by the experiments and young players until they are sent back to juniors;
- we are crippled in the season because of the bad start, losing playoffs by 1 point;
- George is panicking and moving some good piece for short-term average quality piece;
- Ted is not firing George.
Other than that it couldn't be bad, right? OK, don't start to talk about OG...
- we are crippled at start by the experiments and young players until they are sent back to juniors;
- we are crippled in the season because of the bad start, losing playoffs by 1 point;
- George is panicking and moving some good piece for short-term average quality piece;
- Ted is not firing George.
Other than that it couldn't be bad, right? OK, don't start to talk about OG...
BobRouse
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2009
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Again Volpatti isn't that much of an issue as there are bigger fish to fry. The real issue is that he would be a better fit there than Erat.
GMGM would look bad if this Erat situation goes any further and he is forced to trade him for pennies on the dollar. I'm sure he has addressed this with Oates behind closed doors. I mean the trade in all honesty is looking worse by the day publically if thats even possible and its made worse since its not like Erat has sucked but rather he seems to be banished for mysterious reasons.
RE: Ted not Firing George
Again...Ted won't have to fire George. As far as I know his contract runs out at the end of the season anyhow and if Ted hasn't already extended him then one can reasonably conclude he's waiting to see how things shake out and is considering a direction change so no one has to worry about this one. For sure if we suck then GMGM will be gone at the end of this year.
GMGM would look bad if this Erat situation goes any further and he is forced to trade him for pennies on the dollar. I'm sure he has addressed this with Oates behind closed doors. I mean the trade in all honesty is looking worse by the day publically if thats even possible and its made worse since its not like Erat has sucked but rather he seems to be banished for mysterious reasons.
RE: Ted not Firing George
Again...Ted won't have to fire George. As far as I know his contract runs out at the end of the season anyhow and if Ted hasn't already extended him then one can reasonably conclude he's waiting to see how things shake out and is considering a direction change so no one has to worry about this one. For sure if we suck then GMGM will be gone at the end of this year.
The main point is scratching Erat does nothing to improve this team and certainly doesn't solve anything.
As for the trade. The deal looks horrible anyway you look at it. I am more dissapointed in Latta being sent down (although he was recently called back up) than Erat to be honest. I really want to believe we got a good young hockey player back for Forsberg. Not saying he isn't or won't be, but I would like him to do something now.
BobRouse
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2009
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Yeah Erat being scratched is certainly not the answer. I was implying he should be moved up the lineup.
Latta is young on a team with a deep forward pool so it was actually suprising he made the team this year in the first place. So I think thats actually a good sign.
The Erat situation has me worried tho. We all know he is a good player and even in limited minutes playing in a role not suited for him he has looked sharp.
Forsberg is probably going to get (if he isn't already) prime minutes in Nashville as they are a rebuilding team so it stands to reason that he should do well. I mean Brian Willsie scored 19 or 20 goals here when we were rebuilding and guys like Clymer and Sutherby nearly hit the 20 mark as well on those teams. When a team sucks then I expect inflated numbers from players getting prime minutes.
It only looks terrible because of Oates refusal to put Erat in a position to be successful. The trade would be looking a lot better if Erat was on the 2nd or even 1rst line like he should be.
Hivemind
We're Touched
People get far too hung up on what "number" line a player is on, and how that line is supposed to play. A 4th line doesn't have to be full of bangers. A 3rd line doesn't have to be you're shutdown line. Look at the bottom six of the past few cup champs. You'll see players like Peverley, Frolik, Gagne, Seguin, Stalberg, and Kruger. Chicago was rolling Frolik-Bolland-Kruger as their 4th line while more traditionally checking/energy guys like Bollig, Myers, and Carcillo were healthy scratches. Gagne was almost the exact same position for the Kings as Erat is in now, playing 4th line minutes with checkers.
You don't have to follow some archetype from hockey antiquity to be successful. The Stanley Cup champions prove that. If having Erat in the line-up makes us a better team, keep him in the line-up. Oates clearly feels, as do most, that Erat makes us a better team than having Volpatti in the line-up. Just because you have a pounding 4th line doesn't mean you're going to win games. Heck, as a whole teams do worse when outhitting their oppsition.
Wilson should be given the rest of his 9 games and then be sent back to juniors. Between Fehr, Latta, and Mitchell we can fill his 7 minutes per night as 4RW just fine. He's not being put in a position to be a difference maker, and this is clearly not the best case for his development.
You don't have to follow some archetype from hockey antiquity to be successful. The Stanley Cup champions prove that. If having Erat in the line-up makes us a better team, keep him in the line-up. Oates clearly feels, as do most, that Erat makes us a better team than having Volpatti in the line-up. Just because you have a pounding 4th line doesn't mean you're going to win games. Heck, as a whole teams do worse when outhitting their oppsition.
Wilson should be given the rest of his 9 games and then be sent back to juniors. Between Fehr, Latta, and Mitchell we can fill his 7 minutes per night as 4RW just fine. He's not being put in a position to be a difference maker, and this is clearly not the best case for his development.
A month ago I would have agreed. But I am not sure how much he is going to learn or improve playing against kids anymore. I think he is actually better off getting minimal time at the NHL level than 20+ a night playing against kids have his size and skill level. I wish we could send him to Hershey, but that is not an option.
As long as his confidence is fine, which it appears it is, I think we should keep him all year and give him more playing time as he continues to improve.
Hivemind
We're Touched
If you want him to be a 4th line goon, sure. Keep him up here.
If you want him to be Milan Lucic, he's going to need time to work on his offensive game. He's not going to get that while playing <10miutes/night with no powerplay time. Heck, he's not even going to get PK time here, either, so that element in his game is going to lag behind as well. He needs time in offensive situations. Simply laying a few bodychecks and getting in a fight every handful of games isn't going to help him develop.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,431
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If the Caps had a better track record of development and discipline I'd agree with keeping Wilson up despite a smaller current role. I think they're going to keep him up regardless unfortunately. I don't think what he does in the next six games matter much.
If Wilson is mainly to develop through NHL game situations alone then, yeah, I don't think he'll be best served in Washington compared to Plymouth given his role. Keeping him up to get limited game experience and serve as a Hendricks energy fighter of sorts is very questionable. Brouwer, Chimera & Oleksy should have to carry that leadership responsibility. It would likely make all three more effective. Keeping Wilson around to serve as that disposable physical presence maybe plays to his existing strengths but they don't forecheck well enough as a team overall to expect that to translate into offensive upside going forward. He almost has to learn to play more of a skilled game given the way this team tends to attack.
If Wilson is mainly to develop through NHL game situations alone then, yeah, I don't think he'll be best served in Washington compared to Plymouth given his role. Keeping him up to get limited game experience and serve as a Hendricks energy fighter of sorts is very questionable. Brouwer, Chimera & Oleksy should have to carry that leadership responsibility. It would likely make all three more effective. Keeping Wilson around to serve as that disposable physical presence maybe plays to his existing strengths but they don't forecheck well enough as a team overall to expect that to translate into offensive upside going forward. He almost has to learn to play more of a skilled game given the way this team tends to attack.
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