OT: 2012-13 MLB Season Thread

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Cano in just 7 years has been 10x the player Vidro and Kent wish they ever could have been

You can't group Cano in with everybody else, because he is not like everybody else - it is equivalent to doing so with Jeter

I'm not even going to touch the steroids and projected stats 10 years from now, it's ridiculous

It's certainly not ridiculous to the teams that are offering players these contracts. Teams don't enter negotiations with the idea that a player is going to produce at a similar rate through age 40. You HAVE to speculate a decline. You HAVE to speculate the possibility that a guy you're locking up for 10 years may/may not have used steroids (in this day and age). It's irresponsible not to anticipate declines in this sport.

Jeff Kent by Age 30 averaged: .274/.330/.471 .802OPS 20 HR and 81 RBI in that stretch. 138 career bombs.

Jeff Kent age 30-40 averaged: .299/.370/..520 .890 OPS with an MVP and 5 AS appearances. He averaged 25 homeruns and 98 RBI in that stretch.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p...tting_standard#1998-2008-sum:batting_standard

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kentje01.shtml#1992-1998-
sum:batting_standard

Robinson Cano by Age 30: .305/.355/.504 .860 OPS 23 HR 91 RBI average throughout that stretch.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kentje01.shtml#1992-1998-sum:batting_standard

They're remarkably similar players with Cano having the edge with the stick. Though it's a lot closer than it appears given the ballpark Robbie plays in. He's certainly not ten times the player Kent was. That's just incorrect.

We won't get into the steroids. That's fine. But to say "you can't assume he will not produce at a high level" is equally ridiculous to me. Everyone declines. 2B historically decline much faster. I gave you one of the best aging, most talented 2B of the modern era and I'm sure Cano (and the Mariners) take his post-30 production to the bank right now if they could.

Prime Kent was just as good of a hitter for average and a much more patient hitter and a much more prolific power hitter than Cano. Bests him in nearly every offensive category.

 

[Wingman77]

Those stats tell us pretty much what I told you, with the exception of HR's, Cano has a pretty strong lead in each category you listed and has been a much better player. We want to play the stats game? Fine

- Cano has never had under 150 hits in a season - Kent reached that number 1 time by age 30
- Cano has had 40 doubles every season but 2 - Kent never reached 40 doubles by age 30
- Cano has hit under .300 twice - Kent never hit .300 by age 30
- Cano's OPS has been under .800 twice - Kent had an OPS over .800 twice by age 30

Then, there is more to baseball than just offense

Cano and his defense alone puts him above and beyond Kent, people don't realize how much Cano will be missed in that department

 

[theking72]

The Yankees got Parise'd

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Those stats tell us pretty much what I told you, with the exception of HR's, Cano has a pretty strong lead in each category you listed and has been a much better player. We want to play the stats game? Fine

- Cano has never had under 150 hits in a season - Kent reached that number 1 time by age 30
- Cano has had 40 doubles every season but 2 - Kent never reached 40 doubles by age 30
- Cano has hit under .300 twice - Kent never hit .300 by age 30
- Cano's OPS has been under .800 twice - Kent had an OPS over .800 twice by age 30

Then, there is more to baseball than just offense

Cano and his defense alone puts him above and beyond Kent, people don't realize how much Cano will be missed in that department

Oh I agree 100%. But he's not ten times the player Kent was. And Kent (steroids or not, up to you) took off after age 30. Collectively, from age 30-40, he has out-performed Cano age 22-30. Across the board (except defensively).

My point is that Kent is the exception to the norm. Cano very well may be as well. He may hit like Kent until 40. But the problem with that is that (1) Kent possibly cheated, (2) Cano's name has been hovering around cheaters, and (3) the odds are very strongly against Cano.

The Mariners gambled. They feel Cano is that player.

Angels felt Pujols was that player. That's not turning out well. I'm sure you would have been ok with paying Pujols too, given how he was the best hitter in baseball prior to that. The Cardinals passed on his decline. Giving up 1 or 2 years of his prime in exchange for not suffering 8 years of his decline. And that's a 1B/DH who age a lot better than a 2B. Teams plan for their studs to decline - at least good teams.

 

[Devils Trap]

Loving the Red-sox moves this offseason. Sucks to lose Ells, but that contract is death

Re-sign Napoli who was a huge component last year. Improve out catching with AJ . Upgrade our relievers and most importantly, we still have one of the best prospect pools in the MLB

Could still make a move for an OF if they dont think JBJ is ready. Have WMB at 3rd, Boegarts ready at SS, so we let Drew go and saved some more money

 

[Jersey Man]

Yankees and Beltran. 3 years $45 million. I dig it the move. For now.

Ellsbury, Gardner, Beltran and Soriano as our OFs. Soriano will probably be at DH more.

 

[Scott04]

Yankees and Beltran. 3 years $45 million. I dig it the move. For now.

Ellsbury, Gardner, Beltran and Soriano as our OFs. Soriano will probably be at DH more.

Forgot Ichiro and Vernon Wells too... Do they realize you can only play 3 at a time? And only one guy at DH at a time?

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Yankees and Beltran. 3 years $45 million. I dig it the move. For now.

Ellsbury, Gardner, Beltran and Soriano as our OFs. Soriano will probably be at DH more.

Sounds like an injury plagued year to me for some reason :/

 

[Wingman77]

Forgot Ichiro and Vernon Wells too... Do they realize you can only play 3 at a time? And only one guy at DH at a time?

I think Wells is as good as gone because they are hardly paying any of his salary and given his performance last year and who they've brought in, writing is likely on the wall

It's gotten to the point with him that a couple of Yankees beat reporters have forgotten on occasion this off-season to include Wells as on the roster plans for next year

Ichiro will probably be kept around for bench purposes

Will probably see Gardner in LF, Ellsbury in CF, Beltran in RF and Jeter/Soriano seeing the majority of the DH time

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I think Wells is as good as gone because they are hardly paying any of his salary and given his performance last year and who they've brought in, writing is likely on the wall

It's gotten to the point with him that a couple of Yankees beat reporters have forgotten on occasion this off-season to include Wells as on the roster plans for next year

Ichiro will probably be kept around for bench purposes

Will probably see Gardner in LF, Ellsbury in CF, Beltran in RF and Jeter/Soriano seeing the majority of the DH time

The Yankees said they're "absolutely not" trading Gardner. This was before Cano spurned them. I wonder if they look to move him for a 2B?

 

[Jersey Man]

Dear Yankees,

Pitching, pls.

Thanks

 

[Wingman77]

The Yankees said they're "absolutely not" trading Gardner. This was before Cano spurned them. I wonder if they look to move him for a 2B?

There are no 2Bmen out there worth moving Gardner for

Plus Ellsbury is injury prone and Beltran isn't a spring chicken

If one or both were to go down, and Gardner were traded, we'd be down to Soriano, Ichiro, Wells, Ellsbury(?), Beltran(?)

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

There are no 2Bmen out there worth moving Gardner for

Plus Ellsbury is injury prone and Beltran isn't a spring chicken

If one or both were to go down, and Gardner were traded, we'd be down to Soriano, Ichiro, Wells, Ellsbury(?), Beltran(?)

I suppose you're right.

 

[Wingman77]

I suppose you're right.

Some fans were calling Francesa today pushing for Soriano to be back at 2B

Yikes lol, he hasn't even played there in 10 years and given his age and mobility....

They've had interest in Omar Infante so that is a possibility

 

[NJDevs26]

Congrats to Beltran for finally realizing his lifelong dream of playing for the Yankees

 

[Jersey Man]

The Yankees are building a 2005 All-Star team

Ichiro (SEA), Wells? (TOR), Texiera (TEX) A-Rod (NYY), Jeter (NYY), Soriano (TX), Beltran (NYM)

Probably others I just can't think of it.

 

[NJDevs26]

CC's the other obvious one not on that list.

 

[rtr1105]

I'm kind of upset that the White Sox locked up Chris Sale for only 5yrs/$32M last winter, because I would've liked the Yanks to trade for him but I doubt the Sox would let go of Sale. I would've liked to unload and offer Gary Sanchez, Mason Williams, and Rafael DePaula (arguably our top 3 prospects) for Sale. The reasoning for each Yankees piece would be that Sanchez is no longer vital to our future with McCann here. We have an abundance of OFers in both the MLB and minors so Williams is expendable. And I'll take Sale over DePaula, who's unproven.

I'd also like to trade Ichiro for a bullpen arm.

 

[JagZZajac]

Yankees and Beltran. 3 years $45 million. I dig it the move. For now.

Ellsbury, Gardner, Beltran and Soriano as our OFs. Soriano will probably be at DH more.

I'd rather have Beltran DH more just to keep those knees fresh

 

[StvBroDan]

Cano Gone. It will save my lungs from screaming RUN YOU LAZY ****Could you please BEND THE **** OVER YOU LAZY ****

Grandy Gone. I can now stop screaming SWING THE ****ING BAT or PICK YOUR HEAD UP THIS IS NOT LITTLE LEAGUE or GET A FASTER START DAM IT

BTW - It wasn't always bad when they were good they were great. When they were bad the were frustrating to watch

 

[The 29th Pick]

The Yankees are building a 2005 All-Star team

Ichiro (SEA), Wells? (TOR), Texiera (TEX) A-Rod (NYY), Jeter (NYY), Soriano (TX), Beltran (NYM)

Probably others I just can't think of it.

Looks like Lou is building that team too

 

[Wingman77]

Yikes, have fun at the circus Robbie

http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2022420240_mariners08xml.html

 

[The 29th Pick]

Yikes, have fun at the circus Robbie

http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2022420240_mariners08xml.html

Well it looks like Robbie had one thing in mind choosing the Mariners....and thats a big fat paycheck...which he'll get for 10 years...and nothing else
but he seems oblivious to everything else anyway....the guy always has that smile on his face like nothing bothers him

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Would rather see Ellsbury/Gardner/Ichiro in the outfield and Beltran/Soriano at DH. Even though Ichiro is older he still got the better legs under him.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Would rather see Ellsbury/Gardner/Ichiro in the outfield and Beltran/Soriano at DH. Even though Ichiro is older he still got the better legs under him.

The Yankees are now open to trading Brett Gardner. I'm obviously for this.

The Yankees are reportedly targeting Jeff the Shark and David Price. Who are the available 2B? I really don't like Phillips all that much and I doubt we can pry Kipnis from Cleveland (who I think is better than Cano right now and going forward).