OT: 2012-13 MLB Season Thread

[New Jersey Devils]

**** it, let's get Price.

 

[NJDevs26]

The Yankees deserved this IMO, overpay through the nose to get other teams' FA who've never played a game for them and then nickel and dime their own guys.

 

[Better Call Sal]

The Yankees deserved this IMO, overpay through the nose to get other teams' FA who've never played a game for them and then nickel and dime their own guys.

Nickel and dime?

 

[New Jersey Devils]

The Yankees deserved this IMO, overpay through the nose to get other teams' FA who've never played a game for them and then nickel and dime their own guys.

Yankees did not nickle and dime Cano. His contract demand was absurd, along with the contract he got with Seattle. I thought the Yankees' offer was fair. If anything, Cano's the one who chased the money and abandoned any type of loyalty/hometown discount.

 

[NJDevs26]

They blew the market out for Ellsbury (proof being when do Boras clients ever sign before Christmas?), giving him $150-170 million before ever playing a game for them and made it out to be an inconvenience to offer their own guy more than $160 million.

Can you really blame him for taking $65-75 million more? Or for thinking he wasn't really wanted while the Yankees made Ellsbury a higher priority?

 

[Ripshot 43]

nailed it...

Lol, I was waiting for this.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

They blew the market out for Ellsbury (proof being when do Boras clients ever sign before Christmas?), giving him $150-170 million before ever playing a game for them and made it out to be an inconvenience to offer their own guy more than $160 million.

Ellsbury got 153 million. Roughly 21 million a year. They offered Cano, 190 million over 7.

No other team exceeded the Yankees offer aside from the Mariners. The Mariners blew it out of the water by over 40 million and tacked on 3 years. Teams don't do that anymore under the new CBA. Teams don't do that anymore after seeing Albert Pujols break down.

The Yankees didn't nickel and dime Cano. They were going to pay him handsomely. The M's are a joke of a franchise.

 

[Ripshot 43]

They blew the market out for Ellsbury (proof being when do Boras clients ever sign before Christmas?), giving him $150-170 million before ever playing a game for them and made it out to be an inconvenience to offer their own guy more than $160 million.

Can you really blame him for taking $65-75 million more? Or for thinking he wasn't really wanted while the Yankees made Ellsbury a higher priority?

I don't see a single Yankees fan blaming him for taking the Seattle deal....

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I don't see a single Yankees fan blaming him for taking the Seattle deal....

Nope. Make your money Cano. That's fine. He has his championship. It was going to take an overpay like this to get him to leave NY. And the Mariners ponied up a ridiculous, Alber Pujols-esque contract for a great middle infielder. But he's a middle-infielder and those age worse than 1B.

I will miss Robbie but that contract is vomit worthy and I would have been upset if the Yankees made the same mistake again.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

I don't blame Cano for taking the Mariner's deal at all. That is an amazing amount of money. I'll admit the Yankees were being a little stubborn with how they approached signing him, but at the same time Cano didn't budge either and made it clear he wanted $230+ ($300 was never going to happen).

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I don't blame Cano for taking the Mariner's deal at all. That is an amazing amount of money. I'll admit the Yankees were being a little stubborn with how they approached signing him, but at the same time Cano didn't budge either and made it clear he wanted $230+ ($300 was never going to happen).

The Yankees policy of not re-signing their FA in-season bit them in the ass. They could have negotiated a far more reasonable contract than what the Mariners gave Cano in season.

When Jay-Z pissed off ownership I thought it would really handcuff Cano, like you did, but Jack Z isn't the smartest GM in the world and just flat out caved. He's got a team going nowhere in a ballpark not conducive to Cano in a division he has no shot at winning. It's just a stupid deal and if the Mariners had a brain Robinson Cano would be a Yankee at the Yankees price.

I can't fault the Yankees. I would much rather have a complete team than one stud hitter. That's what the Cardinals proved when they let Pujols go. The Yankees just have to take that money and invest it soundly. Hopefully one of the kids develops well up the middle and we can replace Cano through the system. But for the next 3-4 years we need to invest in a veteran 2B who can hit .275+ with some pop. Brandon Phillips is incredibly overrated but I bet he could be had right now especially given the MI depth in the Reds organization.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

The Yankees policy of not re-signing their FA in-season bit them in the ass. They could have negotiated a far more reasonable contract than what the Mariners gave Cano in season.

How do you know this? We've known for a while now that Cano wanted big bucks.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

It's amazing how similar the Yankees and Devils are in their team philosophy. No re-signing during the season, no crazy facial hair aside from the playoffs, groomed hair, suits (although I think this is the case with most). If I were Lou I'd be rocking the 3 cup rings and WS ring all day.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

How do you know this? We've known for a while now that Cano wanted big bucks.

Back in February when the Yankees picked up his 15 million dollar option they were rumored to enter preliminary negotiations "breaking their policy" on in-season negotiations (they said it was technically not in-season since it was Spring Training).

During that time it was leaked Cano's demands were around 200 million dollars. Is that the 180-190 the Yankees wanted? No. But again it's much cheaper than what he ultimately signed for.

The Yankees turtled into their policy and that was that.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

It's amazing how similar the Yankees and Devils are in their team philosophy. No re-signing during the season, no crazy facial hair aside from the playoffs, groomed hair, suits (although I think this is the case with most). If I were Lou I'd be rocking the 3 cup rings and WS ring all day.

The in-season negotiation policy is the one thing I don't understand. Why not just do what everyone else does and get favorable deals for you and your young studs before others get a shot at them? It's why the Yankees lost Cano and why the Devils lost Parise (arguably). These guys want security. You can give them that earlier without anyone else intervening. Why give that up?

Players sign in UFA years out of fear of injury and underperformance. It's why Cano wanted to negotiate in-season for a while. It's why nearly every player does too.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

The in-season negotiation policy is the one thing I don't understand. Why not just do what everyone else does and get favorable deals for you and your young studs before others get a shot at them? It's why the Yankees lost Cano and why the Devils lost Parise (arguably). These guys want security. You can give them that earlier without anyone else intervening. Why give that up?

Players sign in UFA years out of fear of injury and underperformance. It's why Cano wanted to negotiate in-season for a while. It's why nearly every player does too.

Agreed, the season non-negotiation policy is stupid. I assume it's in place so it doesn't distract the team or anything list that. We never should have let Parise get to FA.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Baseball salaries are baffling and out of control.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Baseball salaries are baffling and out of control.

They play a much longer season and typically a much longer game. There is greater risk of injury and their careers are typically much longer as well (especially for hitters in the American League). It's also the oldest professional sport and the major markets are as stable as ever. The stadiums sell more tickets. Revenue sharing is rampant.

The uncapped thing is the biggest problem though.

 

[Wingman77]

A lot of Yankee fans are overreacting largely because a player of this stature has really never left the team and signed elsewhere

Fortunately as a Devils-Yankees fan, I'm of course well versed

They have the money and resources to get whoever they want, this isn't a terrible concern

It sucks, the offense can be replaced not at 2B, but in other areas - Cano has been one of the best defensive infielders we've seen in quite some time which is where it will hurt the most

Oh well, on to the next one, the jump from NY to Seattle is going to be like night and day for him thats for sure

 

[Wingman77]

What I do have issue with though is overpaying for questionable circumstances in Ellsbury and not overpaying for proven circumstances in Cano

The 10 years may have sucked because of the length, but you know what? The final years of the 10 that people were concerned with essentially gets made back regardless because these past 7 years he's played here and produced far more than the $$ we were paying him

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

What I do have issue with though is overpaying for questionable circumstances in Ellsbury and not overpaying for proven circumstances in Cano

The 10 years may have sucked because of the length, but you know what? The final years of the 10 that people were concerned with essentially gets made back regardless because these past 7 years he's played here and produced far more than the $$ we were paying him

Can't look at it that way though.

He's arguably going to be good for, what, 3-5 years of that deal at 2B? How many (clean) 2B play the position past 33-34 well?

And ok you move him to 3B or DH, but then you run into a Pujols problem. Massive amount of money for a CIF who isn't producing enough to warrant that contract.

 

[Wingman77]

Can't look at it that way though.

He's arguably going to be good for, what, 3-5 years of that deal at 2B? How many (clean) 2B play the position past 33-34 well?

And ok you move him to 3B or DH, but then you run into a Pujols problem. Massive amount of money for a CIF who isn't producing enough to warrant that contract.

Every single part of this post is speculation and it's just silly

People seem to forget how the Yankees operated prior to the operation get under the luxury tax mindset

Players in sports are paid based on what they have done with the expectation that it will be continued

Ellsbury is a general baseball player, Cano is the best at his position and among the best in the game today

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Every single part of this post is speculation and it's just silly

People seem to forget how the Yankees operated prior to the operation get under the luxury tax mindset

Players in sports are paid based on what they have done with the expectation that it will be continued

Ellsbury is a general baseball player, Cano is the best at his position and among the best in the game today

Well not really speculation. Middle infielders do not age well. It's something that's tried and proven countless times over the history of the game. The only 2B I can think of off of the top of my head that played well into what was supposed to be their decline is Kent and Vidro?

It's just the history books. They tell you these kind of guys (unless they're implicated in juicing) don't age gracefully. Cano at age 34-35 isn't going to be worth 24 million dollars. Not even close. Most of these middle infielders with offensive gifts move to the corners as they get bigger (which I guess Cano may).

You don't pay players based on what they've done entirely. You project what they'll give you down the line too. The fact that they're paying him 240 million for TEN years is absolutely ludicrous. He's going to be a 40 year old corner infielder/DH hitting .250 and 10 homeruns. That's what history tells you.

Unless he uses steroids.

Obviously it's not a science and there's certainly an amount of speculation involved here but history is against his side. Is he one of the few athletes to transcend that? Maybe. But I'm sure not going to pay 240 million over 10 years to find out.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Well if there is a bright side, signing Kelly Johnson wasn't a bad move given the circumstances.

 

[Wingman77]

Well not really speculation. Middle infielders do not age well. It's something that's tried and proven countless times over the history of the game. The only 2B I can think of off of the top of my head that played well into what was supposed to be their decline is Kent and Vidro?

It's just the history books. They tell you these kind of guys (unless they're implicated in juicing) don't age gracefully. Cano at age 34-35 isn't going to be worth 24 million dollars. Not even close. Most of these middle infielders with offensive gifts move to the corners as they get bigger (which I guess Cano may).

You don't pay players based on what they've done entirely. You project what they'll give you down the line too. The fact that they're paying him 240 million for TEN years is absolutely ludicrous. He's going to be a 40 year old corner infielder/DH hitting .250 and 10 homeruns. That's what history tells you.

Unless he uses steroids.

Obviously it's not a science and there's certainly an amount of speculation involved here but history is against his side. Is he one of the few athletes to transcend that? Maybe. But I'm sure not going to pay 240 million over 10 years to find out.

Cano in just 7 years has been 10x the player Vidro and Kent wish they ever could have been

You can't group Cano in with everybody else, because he is not like everybody else - it is equivalent to doing so with Jeter

I'm not even going to touch the steroids and projected stats 10 years from now, it's ridiculous