GDT: 2/10/24 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Columbus

[Todd1a]

For the right piece or pieces, there's no doubt JBB would probabaly consider trading any of Howard, Gauthier, Duke, Goncalves, Alnefelt, Thompson. Schmidt etc, in addition to the '24 3rd, '25 2nd and 3rd, plus all picks in '26. Some roster players could also be parts of trades if needed. Despite what some may think, Tampa has more trade assets than just Howard.

I’ve noticed JBB almost never trades the prospects he has he always sends out the picks

 

[These Are The Days]

Some of you guys need to get over Jeannot. It wasn't a great trade. We know but I'll take 2 Cups and all the oMg We PaId T0o MuCh!!! We heard over Coleman, Goodrow, Paul, Savard and Hagel. He's screwed like twice if you count Sheary with it.

 

[RDTBay4]

We won and Kuch got points.

 

[Bartleby]

Or Brandon Hagel, Coleman, Goodrow etc. He made one bad trade, but I'll take his.and his team's ability to find the right adds, and they should.

Adding to those teams at a high cost made sense but we are now three years removed from our Cup years and we are not close to the same team. So, while it didn't come close to working, JBB taking one last big swing last year was at least defensible as we tried to make it to a fourth straight final but it isn't defensible anymore.

 

[Byrddog]

Good to have the W but it against maybe the worst team I the league. Getting back to teams close to us having games in had. The concerning one to me are the Wings. We know the Leafs are going to get their points. Now the Bolts did have their best stretch of Hocky before the break without Sergi so maybe they can get that rolling again. I’m not sold they make the playoffs but as a fan sure want the too.

Point has to get going he has had some of his worst games in his career this year curious as to why?

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Good to have the W but it against maybe the worst team I the league. Getting back to teams close to us having games in had. The concerning one to me are the Wings. We know the Leafs are going to get their points. Now the Bolts did have their best stretch of Hocky before the break without Sergi so maybe they can get that rolling again. I’m not sold they make the playoffs but as a fan sure want the too.

Point has to get going he has had some of his worst games in his career this year curious as to why?

He isn't battling as hard as he once did. Some might say he already has Cups and money, but I think the injuries against the Devils & Leafs (2x in the playoffs) have made him a bit hesitant due to injury concerns/wear & tear.

 

[JTBF81]

Adding to those teams at a high cost made sense but we are now three years removed from our Cup years and we are not close to the same team. So, while it didn't come close to working, JBB taking one last big swing last year was at least defensible as we tried to make it to a fourth straight final but it isn't defensible anymore.

Sure it is. The team remains in thelr competitive window with one of the best cores in the league. They've also been one of the better teams in terms of points % since mid December. Of course they aren't as loaded as the Cup teams from '20 and '21, but that was always going to benthe case given the mostly stagnant cap situation. As long as they don't completely fall apart over the next 10 games, JBB should definitely look to add depth to help the team for this year(and hopefully at least next year as well with the right additions). As long as they make it into the playoffs, they have a legitimate chance with this group to make a run.at it, and adding depth at a couple of positions only strengthens those chances. JBB won't sit and do nothing during this window as long as he feels they have that capability and tbe adds make them, in his perspective, a team with a greater chance of winning another title.

 

[Bartleby]

Sure it is. The team remains in thelr competitive window with one of the best cores in the league. They've also been one of the better teams in terms of points % since mid December. Of course they aren't as loaded as the Cup teams from '20 and '21, but that was always going to benthe case given the mostly stagnant cap situation. As long as they don't completely fall apart over the next 10 games, JBB should definitely look to add depth to help the team for this year(and hopefully at least next year as well with the right additions). As long as they make it into the playoffs, they have a legitimate chance with this group to make a run.at it, and adding depth at a couple of positions only strengthens those chances. JBB won't sit and do nothing during this window as long as he feels they have that capability and tbe adds make them, in his perspective, a team with a greater chance of winning another title.

Couldn't disagree more. Even with our recent (sort of) improvement, we still haven't proven that we can beat anyone good, our defense has sucked all year whether Sergy was injured or not, Vasy is slightly better than league average (and has been for about 2 years now) and we live and die with our PP which is about the only really solid thing we have going for us from a team perspective. If they show something over the next three I might have a slight change of heart but even then what is it we're going to get back given what we have to offer? I still think there are too many holes to fill to make it a worthwhile investment at this point. The only trades I would like to see are straight up hockey trades if JBB thinks there are some to be had but no more futures.

 

[Rschmitz]

Couldn't disagree more. Even with our recent (sort of) improvement, we still haven't proven that we can beat anyone good, our defense has sucked all year whether Sergy was injured or not, Vasy is slightly better than league average (and has been for about 2 years now) and we live and die with our PP which is about the only really solid thing we have going for us from a team perspective. If they show something over the next three I might have a slight change of heart but even then what is it we're going to get back given what we have to offer? I still think there are too many holes to fill to make it a worthwhile investment at this point. The only trades I would like to see are straight up hockey trades if JBB thinks there are some to be had but no more futures.

Of all the teams you wanna give a shot to because they've proven they can get it done, this is the team. Just get in, whatever team we go against is going to hate having to face us as the higher seed, promise you that.

 

[JTBF81]

Couldn't disagree more. Even with our recent (sort of) improvement, we still haven't proven that we can beat anyone good, our defense has sucked all year whether Sergy was injured or not, Vasy is slightly better than league average (and has been for about 2 years now) and we live and die with our PP which is about the only really solid thing we have going for us from a team perspective. If they show something over the next three I might have a slight change of heart but even then what is it we're going to get back given what we have to offer? I still think there are too many holes to fill to make it a worthwhile investment at this point. The only trades I would like to see are straight up hockey trades if JBB thinks there are some to be had but no more futures.

Then I guess we can agree to disagree, as they had similar issues with good teams last year and then largely outplayed ghe Leafs aside from Vasy. JBB doesn't care much, if at all it seems about what a draft pick might ne able to do 5 or 6 years from now, as by then who knows where the team will be. If more future picks and maybe a prospect or two is needed to improve the team now (when they actually have a chance to go for it), so be it. Despite one bad trade last season, JBB has hit far more often, and has shown no lack of willingness to go for it while the window is open. Nothing about that approach seems likely to change this season imo, unless the team craters over the next 3 weeks. Even the next 3 games, should they not do that well, isn't the end of the season as some on here have already indicated would be the case.

 

[Byrddog]

Of all the teams you wanna give a shot to because they've proven they can get it done, this is the team. Just get in, whatever team we go against is going to hate having to face us as the higher seed, promise you that.

Not sure about that, yes last year but they have too many warts to cover up on this roster. Now could that be impacted well year Vasi could go all world , he is capable of it unless he is still slightly bothered by that surgery. The D sorely misses Mac and Heddy has dropped off over the last two years. The O is just hamstrung one scoring line second line a mess and bottom 6 clearly less than what they have been over the last 5 years.

It’s a .500 team nothing more. Too many nights they are just difficult to watch. I have not looked at any stats but they have to be one of the worst 2nd period teams in the league. The roster is a nightmare for any coach just impossible to move players around . You can coach up talent but when the youngsters are ECHL level and the fill in veterans washed up or never bend it difficult.

 

[Rschmitz]

Not sure about that, yes last year but they have too many warts to cover up on this roster. Now could that be impacted well year Vasi could go all world , he is capable of it unless he is still slightly bothered by that surgery. The D sorely misses Mac and Heddy has dropped off over the last two years. The O is just hamstrung one scoring line second line a mess and bottom 6 clearly less than what they have been over the last 5 years.

It’s a .500 team nothing more. Too many nights they are just difficult to watch. I have not looked at any stats but they have to be one of the worst 2nd period teams in the league. The roster is a nightmare for any coach just impossible to move players around . You can coach up talent but when the youngsters are ECHL level and the fill in veterans washed up or never bend it difficult.

You're comparing the regular season to the postseason, as a hockey fan you should know better.

 

[Byrddog]

You're comparing the regular season to the postseason, as a hockey fan you should know better.

One thing is sure if you don’t make it to the playoffs the regular season mattered. At this point 30 games to go and the team bi-polar at best there is no guarantee.

 

[Rschmitz]

One thing is sure if you don’t make it to the playoffs the regular season mattered. At this point 30 games to go and the team bi-polar at best there is no guarantee.

Agreed on that bit, they gotta make it in.

As Lightning fans we've been spoiled by long postseason runs, a lot of teams go out and acquire help just to make it in, not because they expect to win it all. We're certainly in position to do at least that, it doesn't need to be all or nothing.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Then I guess we can agree to disagree, as they had similar issues with good teams last year and then largely outplayed ghe Leafs aside from Vasy. JBB doesn't care much, if at all it seems about what a draft pick might ne able to do 5 or 6 years from now, as by then who knows where the team will be. If more future picks and maybe a prospect or two is needed to improve the team now (when they actually have a chance to go for it), so be it. Despite one bad trade last season, JBB has hit far more often, and has shown no lack of willingness to go for it while the window is open. Nothing about that approach seems likely to change this season imo, unless the team craters over the next 3 weeks. Even the next 3 games, should they not do that well, isn't the end of the season as some on here have already indicated would be the case.

You still have to plan for the future. Giving up all your top picks will really hurt if you can't find diamonds in the rough, which is hard for any team to do. The Lightning development staff in the A and throughout the organization is definitely top 5 or 10 in the league, but you would prefer to only have to rebuild for a couple years as opposed to what the Blackhawks and Sharks are dealing with. But talent and youth alone don't get wins, as the Ducks are showing that.

 

[JTBF81]

You still have to plan for the future. Giving up all your top picks will really hurt if you can't find diamonds in the rough, which is hard for any team to do. The Lightning development staff in the A and throughout the organization is definitely top 5 or 10 in the league, but you would prefer to only have to rebuild for a couple years as opposed to what the Blackhawks and Sharks are dealing with. But talent and youth alone don't get wins, as the Ducks are showing that.

Aside from the 1sts they've given up, most of the other picks that have been traded have a low statistical chance of ever being an NHLer of any real significance. In most cases, JBB hasn't even moved 1sts for rentals either(aside from the Savard trade), and he's only moved actual prospects once or twice. Tampa does develop well, and they still have more than a few candidates that could be playing at Amalie in the years ahead. If 2 or 3 more picks/prospects ha e to go, I'm good with it as long as the players being brought in are upgrades and could have a reasonable chance of returning next year. I wouldn't pay a large amount for a Hanifin, Tanev, etc. as they have no chance of being extended.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Aside from the 1sts they've given up, most of the other picks that have been traded have a low statistical chance of ever being an NHLer of any real significance. In most cases, JBB hasn't even moved 1sts for rentals either(aside from the Savard trade), and he's only moved actual prospects once or twice. Tampa does develop well, and they still have more than a few candidates that could be playing at Amalie in the years ahead. If 2 or 3 more picks/prospects ha e to go, I'm good with it as long as the players being brought in are upgrades and could have a reasonable chance of returning next year. I wouldn't pay a large amount for a Hanifin, Tanev, etc. as they have no chance of being extended.

I would prefer they don't trade Duke, Howard, Huuhtanen, Thompson. If they know NCAA guys such as Eamon Powell (senior at BC) won't be signing, trade their rights now in a deal to get better.

 

[Bartleby]

Of all the teams you wanna give a shot to because they've proven they can get it done, this is the team. Just get in, whatever team we go against is going to hate having to face us as the higher seed, promise you that.

Yeah, I don't know what you're seeing that I don't, but this is and has been little more than an average team all year. As for the switch being flipped come playoff time, I don't see that either, not this time. People like to point out how well we played against Toronto last year in the first round and how if Vasy was himself we would have won, which is exactly the point. He hasn't shown any kind of return to form and given the ever growing sample size, it doesn't look like that is going to happen this year. If that turns around and we come away with something like 5 out of 6 points in the next three AND we see Vasy giving up less than three in all of them I'd reconsider but no way with what I've seen so far.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah, I don't know what you're seeing that I don't, but this is and has been little more than an average team all year. As for the switch being flipped come playoff time, I don't see that either, not this time. People like to point out how well we played against Toronto last year in the first round and how if Vasy was himself we would have won, which is exactly the point. He hasn't shown any kind of return to form and given the ever growing sample size, it doesn't look like that is going to happen this year. If that turns around and we come away with something like 5 out of 6 points in the next three AND we see Vasy giving up less than three in all of them I'd reconsider but no way with what I've seen so far.

A lot of Lightning playoff hockey I guess. How am I not being clear? The team has question marks for sure but how have they not earned the benefit of the doubt come playoff time? They have from me.

Also, this team is more talented than some of the Lightning teams that made deep playoff runs over the last 9 years.

No one in the east scares me, they all have holes, record aside we still have one of the most talented rosters, and I'll put our core against anyone. I really don't get the defeatist mindset, we're spoiled. I've seen bad teams before that you wanna give up on and this one ain't it!

 

[Bartleby]

View attachment 818385

A lot of Lightning playoff hockey I guess. How am I not being clear? The team has question marks for sure but how have they not earned the benefit of the doubt come playoff time? They have from me.

Also, this team is more talented than some of the Lightning teams that made deep playoff runs over the last 9 years.

View attachment 818397

No one in the east scares me, they all have holes, record aside we still have one of the most talented rosters, and I'll put our core against anyone. I really don't get the defeatist mindset, we're spoiled. I've seen bad teams before that you wanna give up on and this one ain't it!

It's always interesting when you encounter people who can't distinguish defeatism from realism. What team would you say is the closest analog to the Bolts over the past decade plus ? That would be the Penguins, no? A HOF core arguably even greater than ours. What have they been doing since their last Cup win? Repeatedly doubling down (by trading away futures and assets based on what they used to be) to just make the playoffs in the vain hope of attaining past glory and yet they haven't come close with just one playoff series win since (and that in the first year after) and last year they didn't even make it.

Now, I haven't seen anyone argue that the Bolts should just lay down their sticks and pack it in for the season. There is a path if our great players play great (I'm looking at you, Vasy, Pointer, Heddy) and our defense can defend but nothing we have seen so far this year suggests that that is where they are. JBB should do some tweaking around the edges if he can find the right deals but beyond that, they're going to have to get there without us crippling our future completely because frankly they haven't earned that kind of investment this season. Not to mention, of course, that we don't have much left in the cupboard to deal anyway that would be a real difference maker.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

you know who has great deals? publix. man, the BOGO alone. what a store. what a country. USA USA USA

 

[Rschmitz]

It's always interesting when you encounter people who can't distinguish defeatism from realism. What team would you say is the closest analog to the Bolts over the past decade plus ? That would be the Penguins, no? A HOF core arguably even greater than ours. What have they been doing since their last Cup win? Repeatedly doubling down (by trading away futures and assets based on what they used to be) to just make the playoffs in the vain hope of attaining past glory and yet they haven't come close with just one playoff series win since (and that in the first year after) and last year they didn't even make it.

Now, I haven't seen anyone argue that the Bolts should just lay down their sticks and pack it in for the season. There is a path if our great players play great (I'm looking at you, Vasy, Pointer, Heddy) and our defense can defend but nothing we have seen so far this year suggests that that is where they are. JBB should do some tweaking around the edges if he can find the right deals but beyond that, they're going to have to get there without us crippling our future completely because frankly they haven't earned that kind of investment this season. Not to mention, of course, that we don't have much left in the cupboard to deal anyway that would be a real difference maker.

So if I am reading you right this time(you're not being defeatist), your point is that we shouldn't be aggressively trying to add to our team i.e. Pittsburgh.

I partially agree, I'm not one to advocate for that anyways, but Pittsburgh and the Hawks for that matter did their thing before teams calibrated into how to manage the cap.

Point of that matter is once you've locked your core up, cap constraints are going to continue to weigh down any chance you have of winning the cup versus another team riding cheap young talent. It's a vicious cycle, and unless we wanna blow it up and rebuild we have to just accept the fact that we won't be riding the high's of a fully loaded roster anymore. I think that is realism, "tomorrow season" isn't going to be any better.

That to me means you just have to be more selective with who you acquire(i.e. not like the Jeannot trade). You cannot however straight up concede a season and go into rebuild mode when the vast majority of your core pieces are still in their 20's.

Unless we are near the bottom of the standings, you gotta continue to find ways to improve the team, especially for us considering our draft capital.

 

[Bartleby]

So if I am reading you right this time(you're not being defeatist), your point is that we shouldn't be aggressively trying to add to our team i.e. Pittsburgh.

I partially agree, I'm not one to advocate for that anyways, but Pittsburgh and the Hawks for that matter did their thing before teams calibrated into how to manage the cap.

Point of that matter is once you've locked your core up, cap constraints are going to continue to weigh down any chance you have of winning the cup versus another team riding cheap young talent. It's a vicious cycle, and unless we wanna blow it up and rebuild we have to just accept the fact that we won't be riding the high's of a fully loaded roster anymore. I think that is realism, "tomorrow season" isn't going to be any better.

That to me means you just have to be more selective with who you acquire(i.e. not like the Jeannot trade). You cannot however straight up concede a season and go into rebuild mode when the vast majority of your core pieces are still in their 20's.

Unless we are near the bottom of the standings, you gotta continue to find ways to improve the team, especially for us considering our draft capital.

Bolded 1) More true about the Hawks than the Penguins as the cap had been fully integrated into GM thinking by the time the Penguins won their last two.

Bolded 2) Again, no one is talking about straight up concession. We have a roster that should be better than they have shown and if the stars align and they can find their game as a group then they can make a a run but the fact is they haven't been very good and the old argument of "they're jaded" and "just care about getting in" doesn't fly anymore IMO. They aren't playing well and haven't shown any indication that they can flip the switch as they used to. Maybe they'll surprise us over the next week, the opportunity is there, but nothing that they have done recently warrants big investments.

 

[Rschmitz]

Bolded 1) More true about the Hawks than the Penguins as the cap had been fully integrated into GM thinking by the time the Penguins won their last two.

Bolded 2) Again, no one is talking about straight up concession. We have a roster that should be better than they have shown and if the stars align and they can find their game as a group then they can make a a run but the fact is they haven't been very good and the old argument of "they're jaded" and "just care about getting in" doesn't fly anymore IMO. They aren't playing well and haven't shown any indication that they can flip the switch as they used to. Maybe they'll surprise us over the next week, the opportunity is there, but nothing that they have done recently warrants big investments.

Not true. Plenty of people here have been wanting to abandon the season and jettison players for picks and prospects.

"Flipping the switch" and knowing how to play postseason hockey are two different things. 2019 is a testament to that, the game is completely different. We've lost a lot of tough series in pursuit of that lesson.

 

[Bartleby]

Not true. Plenty of people here have been wanting to abandon the season and jettison players for picks and prospects.

"Flipping the switch" and knowing how to play postseason hockey are two different things. 2019 is a testament to that, the game is completely different. We've lost a lot of tough series in pursuit of that lesson.

I wasn't necessarily speaking for other people, just using the third person plural form.

As for the latter, with all due respect, I think you're living in the past. Some of the names are the same, important names, but this team is not those teams. Just as in Pittsburgh, same core names, but clearly different teams.